Covert Narcissism

[freshpatchouli]

Has anybody had any experience of this very scary and damaging personality disorder please?

OMG @FayeFife you just described my ex to a T. The only difference is that he did tell me he loved me, all the time, but I do not think he knew what love was nor that he actually felt it. For example, he would say something to me that would upset me, critical or patronizing and then fifteen minutes later he would tell me he loved me and I would literally feel sick to my stomach. Or he would fight with me over something totally trivial and then expect me to have sex with him that night and get upset if I did not want to. The worst for me were silent treatments. They would last for days, weeks, the longest was three months.

I gave this man over 25 years of my life and three beautiful children. When I met him I was young, full of energy, song and laughter and I loved him more then anything in the world, but he killed it all. First my energy and enthusiasm and in the end, my love for him. I too was a strong and independent woman and when I think about all the things I did or did not do because of him I cannot explain why. What was I afraid of? He never yelled, swore at me or hit me and he did not necessary tell me, "you cannot do this". Somehow, and I still do not understand how, he manipulated me into submission, he trained me to do what he wanted. In the end I was so confused, so lost, unable to make the simplest decision by myself and feeling extremely guilty every time I did something I knew he would not approve of. I have no idea how I woke up from this trance, how I managed to reach out and ask for help. I started therapy and from that point on, I did not look back. She helped me first to recognize and name the abuse, to decide what I wanted to do and finally to break free. It has been a year since we separated and ten months since he moved out, but I am still recovering.

Good luck OP and keep posting💕

Hi all, still here and reading about these horrible using creatures.
So exhausted today, I'm doing more physically running the house etc but I think it's the mental exhaustion that's flooring me and having no time to actually properly rest and process.
I don't really have anyone to talk to so that makes it worse I think, having no outlet.
Gobsmacked at the recent behaviour, I get it, I'm kind of getting my head around it but it still hits me right in the face. The walking away (back to his family who he hates and has blamed and moaned on and on and on about them messing him up since I met him) when the going got tough and didn't fit the way he deemed he should be treated. It's just made me see how much he was just using me for 30 bloody years and when he wasn't getting what he wanted, was easy for him to say 'see ya' and not look back. He loves 'its not working' which makes me rage! I wish I could write all the things he did here (too identifying) to show why it 'wasn't working' He acts like it's just some sort of unfortunate personality clash, horrible bastard. What are these people? Not human that's for sure. Hearts of stone. Totally self absorbed. 100%

Bumping this

Yes, my ex husband.

The day I decided to leave him I spoke with a friend. She told me that I sounded like my old self again.

He was unloving, superior and superficial and he tried and failed to destroy me. I don't miss him at all.

Yes to those three characteristics Morningplatypus! Glad you're okay.

Now I'm older, I can see that she is. I finding difficult to have sympathy for her. Pity is about as much as I can muster.

My dad was diagnosed with cancer in 2003. My brother and I would never have voiced it to anyone else but the comments she made about him made it sound as though she was jealous and, tbh, I think she was.

They had been divorced for around 8 years by that point and had no contact at all really. She would ask my brother and me for details about his treatment under the guise of caring but we later realised she was telling everyone about it as though she was directly involved and garnering sympathy from them for it - how awful for you! Type stuff. She talked about how she was supporting my brother and me through it when she did nothing amd knew nothing. We found out when I bumped into one of her friends in the supermarket who talked about how selfless she was being offering her support to her ex husband and how much support she offered to us.

She was diagnosed with cancer herself in 2007 and told absolutely everyone about it.

I went to sainsburys with her once and the woman on the checkout asked the usual, How are you today? She got chapter and verse on my mum's cancer and treatment. I asked her why she did it afterwards. She said it was 'nice to get the sympathy'.

She tried asking graduation about her and cried and sulked when it was pointed out that it was my day. My exh and I eloped so we didn't have to invite her to the wedding.

I was speaking to a counsellor last year after the breakup of a five year relationship and she suggested he was a narcissist, which kind of surprised me. Things he said or did were never told me he loved me, said at the end he'd never been in love with me, always knew I'd been more into him than him me, sometimes criticised my home, car, driving, taste in music. Constantly praised his own cooking, never mine. People like him, he's charming, but always knew best. Now he'd a lot of good points too or I wouldn't have stayed that long, but does this sound like narcissism?

Aloof
Closed book
Charming/gentleman to a fault
Unfathomable facial expressions / silent scrutiny
Condescending / belittling / persuasive
Seemingly shy
Body language, words and actions don’t match
Some sort of weird sexual magnetism (Narc With A Spark)
My intuition telling me not to “go there

eeek!
this describes a person I have been seeing for nearly a year

Do you often find other people’s pain entertaining?

They are dangerous as they weaken you and make you doubt yourself. They gas light and are incapable of truth of genuine feelings. If you expose them they go mental.

MynamesnotMa they go mental or they abandon/walk away because they're no longer being 'fed'.

The thing is with this, it's not about giving their disgusting behaviour a label but by knowing that these people (my 'husband') have all these covert narcissistic traits, helps to understand the bullying and trauma and make some kind of sense of it in your head. It definitely helps me to unpick it all and not go anymore insane. Does that resonate with anyone?

I'm pretty sure BIL is a covert narcissist. The victim mentality, lack of accountability etc are all classic.

Because SIL cannot seem to extricate herself, we were getting very very emotionally invested and it wasn't helpful for us. And we got sucked in in other ways - eg he'd send us these long rambling messages accusing her/us of all sorts of things and we'd try to respond because our instinct was to talk it out. But of course, pointless with this type of personality as they can't hear anything else and will never accept that anyone else might have a point.

Now we don't. We ignore mostly. Sometimes, we find it helpful to stop for a second and just marvel at the batshittery that comes out of his mouth. DH and I have been known to spend days repeating some of his more ridiculous statements while laughing hysterically. I also have a very good girlfriend who loves a little "Crazy BIL" update.

I’m trying to find the nerve to block one for good. He’s vile and I know he’s vile but I keep hoping for the nice version of him that fleetingly appeared at the beginning. I know! I know! That wasn’t real!

I have never felt worse about myself in my life. He makes me feel like nothing is ever good enough. I can’t bend myself in enough ways to keep him happy. The manipulation, the lies. He’s lying to me right now and I questioned it and so I’ve got the silent treatment 🙄.

So yeah. If anybody wants to give me a kick up the arse to hit the block button that would be much appreciated. I can’t let myself lose anymore of myself.

Run for the hills then!

You say block so assume this isn't even a DH or long term partner you live with/share children with?

Here's the kick you need: BLOCK HIM. If he's lying and gaslighting and behaving like a dickhead, why would you want him back? The nice person he showed you for 10 seconds was a fake. Move on.

Triffid believe me I don’t want him. I’ve known him for four long long years and I will not repeat this cycle for a fifteenth time. I also don’t want to block him straight after arguing as he will get a kick out of that and he’s taken enough.

I kid you not… the argument was him telling me he is moving away for a month for a construction job and his first day is today. I pointed out that construction work is illegal on bank holidays and he lost it. Apparently I just can’t help myself and if I carry on ‘questioning him’ we may as well call the friendship quits. It’s not that type of construction apparently 😐

It’s always the same. At first he’s nice but it never lasts, then comes the less nice but still ok, then we get into subtle put downs with him making it clear he couldn’t care less. Then I retaliate and start arguing that I won’t be treated like that and so he threatens to cut me out of his life. Then I get cut out only to start the cycle again a month later.

Its shit because I know I’ll miss him like mad. When it’s good I love his company but the good never lasts and it’s not going to change.

This is the only form of narcissism I've had close experience of. Maybe the label isn't that useful besides as an indicator that the behaviour is unlikely to ever go away.

Its insidious precisely because the person seems vulnerable. It elicits our compassion. Unlike the grandiose types, they aren't Teflon coated. They don't laugh off emotional injury instead they capitalise on it.

Just when you were deciding you had enough and you were leaving suddenly they reveal some childhood trauma. Right on time. Or one minute you think you're discussing the fact that they aren't working and then you're being told you are financially controlling. Anyone with a shred of self doubt can get dragged into this long game.

Its basically- how to manipulate everyone by being a victim

Supercali you have just summed up so much that I didn’t realise. I’ve tried to rid myself of my covert narcissist friend many times but it’s like he can sense it. If I pull away a bit he will say something like ‘do you want me to fuck off?’ and then a couple of hours later I’ll get ‘I need a good cry’, followed by details on how he would like to harm himself. One of the first things he ever told me was about his cheating ex girlfriend and how much it destroyed him. If I ever talk about being worried or upset about something though that doesn’t matter.

If he senses me pulling away too much he will end it and then we are back to the start of the cycle again.

Sorry if I’m posting a lot. I’ve been at my wits end for a long time but never quite reached the point where I couldn’t stand it anymore. I know that ending it is right and my decision is final. I feel like I’m at a point where it’s me or him. Like if I carry on any longer I’ll completely lose myself and I don’t know what will be left.

I also don’t want to block him straight after arguing as he will get a kick out of that and he’s taken enough.

The biggest mistake you can make with people like this is wanting some kind of "win". You have to accept that they will never ever take responsibility for anything. That anything you do or say can and will be twisted so that you are at fault/they are the victim/they are the hero/whatever. So don't do anything based on any desire for THEIR response but ONLY on what YOU need.

If I pull away a bit he will say something like ‘do you want me to fuck off?’

Say "Yes".

...followed by details on how he would like to harm himself.

This one is classic and very very effective. But if someone was, for example, injured, you might perform basic first aid - put pressure on the wound, clean it etc - but you would not expect to be able to heal the person. Instead, you would drive them to a doctor for stitches/x-ray/assessment. Threats to self harm need to be handled the same way... "I'm so sorry to hear that. Here is the number for the Samaritans, I really think you should ring them" on repeat.

Incidentally, I saw a therapist as a young adult who told me that she thought my mother was probably a narcissist. I'm really not sure. But what I do know is that it appears narcissistic behaviour is more effective on some people than others - but not me.

I do remember my mother once, in an argument, telling me she should just kill herself. I was about 16. I responded instinctively and immediately by storming over to her and telling her that making those sort of threats was disgusting manipulative behaviour and that if she really was so unhappy she should seek help.

Narcissists are very good at finding people who are susceptible to their type of abuse. OP and @Fedupofthis123 (and my SIL) are in that group. I know the things I'm saying are harder to accept/put into practice than when I'm just blathering away. But honestly, if you could see these people through my eyes.... well, you wouldn't want anything to do with them ever again.

Thanks for this thread everyone. It's so helpful.

The never being able to 'win' is so spot on. I still (but much less so) unconsciously try to make things difficult for him but when someone is so cold and detached, it doesn't work.

Superior, superficial, cold' that someone said earlier in the thread really hit home too. Been going round my head all day. You get so muddled about how they are and what they do that's it hard to explain but this sums it up perfectly.

And trying to manipulate everyone by playing the victim. My god, yes! He's really loved this one as he's got older. Fetal position or arms wrapped around himself quite often. Dickhead.

Just keeping this active. Thanks

the books always say that when you try to leave they ramp up the behaviour. I am trying to split up with the father of my kids (absolute last resort as it got very abusiive (verbally, physicallly and sexually - he refused to let me have an abortion after refusing to wear contraception and promising to pull out)).
one week ago he was telling me to leave, block him, stop talking, that I must never let him abuse me again. (I was begging him to go to therapy, please can we save this type of thing). I did then manage to ignore him as the books say to go no contact. This week he has suddenly found a large sum of money and is offering to buy me a car and put a deposit on a house. when me and my children’s safety and sanity is at risk this is just too little too late

I am struggling as the fantasy appeal of a happy family life is strong. My kids miss their dad. I am exhausted doing everything for them. I have no money and no job. He spent the last ten years discouraging me in alll aspects of my career, saying he would take care of us. Newsflash - he didn’t. He did the bare minimum at work and at home, after doing his best to wreck my prospects of earning good money. Luckily I journal most days, and all I have to do is open my diary and i will see something controlling/abusive that is straight out of the narcissist playbook. Moving us to a rural/isolated area. Cutting up my clothes when I looked “too sexy”. Not letting me do my hair or make up before going out . Arguing with and insulting all my friends and family. Sneering at all my plans for self improvement. Interestingly, if he ever saw me journaling he would sneer at me and ask “who are you writing that for”. He went thru all my teenage diaries and always brings up boyfriends I had before I met him, as well as my lifelong experiences of sexual assault.
yuck. I’m writing this out so I don’t forget. To keep shining the cold light of day on it all.

it’s very tempting to get stuck in the “is he a narcissist” loop. But now I have to get through the “why did I put up with it for so long” part, without crumbling into a pool of self loathing. I am getting counselling and have started telling close family/friends some of what happened. It’s really hard because i feel like everyone loses a little bit of respect for me for being such a doormat. But I was just naively optimistic. He was ten years older than me, successful (at the time) and we’ve been together since I was 21. I really wanted to believe he was (mr) right. I struggled with his low opinion of me and internalised it as so much low self esteem. I am slowly clawing it back though, I can feel it

narcissists are so dangerous. Admittedly, I had low self esteem and depression/anxiety going into the relationship. I have spent my entire adult life reading self help books and trying to fix it. But the last three years he has triggered multiple panic attacks in me. I never had those before. I stopped talking to my friends, stopped trying to succeed in my career. I am a shell of who I was when I met him.
the last straw was him lying to my face about looking at porn and telling me I have paranoid schizophrenia (it runs in my family but I don’t have it). His phone was open on the table so I know he was lying. I realised he was willing to sacrifice my sanity to maintain his facade. When I called him out on it he got so mad and attacked me in front of the kids. Told me I gave his dad terminal cancer by being such an annoying bitch
the inner workings of his mind laid bare. No responsibility, just pure hatred for me
im sorry for such a long post. I have to get it off my chest every now and again when I feel myself wavering about going back :(

@freshpatchouli sorry to resurrect the thread but I have to ask about your partner not planning anything. Did he want to do these things but not take initiative? As in planning something might leave him open to failure or criticism?