Know I need to divorce him …

[Hehasdoneitagain]

Over 20+ years together, and on the outside to many we’re the 2.4 family. Over the years before and during our marriage he has been deceitful and believes if I don’t know something ‘it’s no harm’ and always belittles that’s it’s a real issue. I believe most people would take issue with it unless doing it themselves. He compartmentalise his actions and appears to think that if I don’t know, he has’nt don’t it no guilt, no conscious, no confession unless I find out. I love my DH and in many ways I believe he loves me, and beyond these ‘blips’ he is otherwise a great life partner. Separating will destroy the DC (both under 10). I am 100% sure of this as they are extremely close to him and enjoy our family life. They spend a lot of time with him, playing, taxing around, doing homework, activity weekends as his job enables him to be around during the week. They always love us doing activities as a family, and I don’t see them getting over it in time and genuinely knowing their characters, I feel this will have an adverse impact on them long-term. The other issue is what he lies about means I would feel less comfortable with them staying at what he is doing is an issue know, and likely to remain an issue if we’re living apart but I’d have less viability of what the children would find out possibly in time if I’m not around them when they are with him - IYSWIM.

I really struggle with DH’s lies, never accepted them but put them down to any couple in it for the long haul having their challenges. Now that we have children, I feel he should be acting as a role model. He sees it as they don’t know so not an issue, I see it as you can’t challenge them on the said behaviour in time if they start doing similar when you know you do it yourself - but think my DH actually would have no issues doing so, as in his head he believes that he hasn’t done it if nobody knows!

Divorcing is so final, we gone through most of our adult life together. But I know him, and I am getting too old to have to rummage around to prove his done it again!

Anyone been in a similar situation and gone ahead with divorce?

I promise you divorcing him will not destroy the children, as long as the split is managed with them in mind. Staying with a deceitful man could have a v negative impact on you, and having an unhappy mum (and deceitful dad) is definitely bad for the kids.

Have you had any counselling (for yourself?) That could help you work through all of this.

What is he lying about?. People generally lie to get themselves out of trouble amongst other reasons like instant gratification and such behaviour can also be deeply ingrained within the psyche. He is not going to change, he is also in complete denial as to how its affecting other people and you can only change how you react to him. Do you feel like you've enabled him; enabling only gives you a false sense of control.

Do you really think that separating will destroy (a very strong word to use in itself) the children here?. It may well not and at least they would be spared their dad lying to you as their mum (and in turn them). Staying for the sake of the children, well whose sake would you be staying for really?. Perhaps your own. What do you yourself want to teach them about relationships and what are they learning here?. You would not want them to lie like their dad does to you and in turn them also. And what about you here in all this, if you separate from him how would you feel?. If you've spent most of your adult life together then perhaps it would be good to finally discover who you are and without having to search around for the truth.

re your comment
"I really struggle with DH’s lies, never accepted them but put them down to any couple in it for the long haul having their challenges".

Why did you do that to yourself?. Two wrongs do not make a right here; they make two wrongs. You have a choice re this man and your children do not. Do you really want to continue to raise them within such an environment where their dad behaves like this?. It will affect them markedly and no amount of home comforts will cut it. They could also look at you and wonder of you why you put this man before them. Telling them you stayed because of a lifestyle you wanted to maintain or its somehow easier for you are really no arguments for staying either.

@bluejelly we've had counselling together before. He suggested it and after several sessions he didn’t want to go back, and I continued on my own for a period. This was several years ago.

@AttilaTheMeerkat I do agree and think it’s ingrained within his psyche. His friends and siblings do similar so not a big deal in his world. I don’t know any friends and family doing similar - so have no interest or willingness to be connected to it. Instant gratification would explain it and forms the basis of the lie, versus a lie to get him out of trouble - that only happens when his been caught out and makes a last ditch attempt to see if he can make me believe otherwise.

At the moment the children have no clue and just see him as the perfect dad. I do realise as they get older they will do and many of the points you make are what I’m concerned about. I love my DH is why I have stayed till now, and we have both been there for each other over the years. Not because of a lifestyle etc. separating would not impact my lifestyle, beyond not having a partner to manage and have experiences with - but I am comfortable and do like my own company too. I have a good circle of friends and family, who don’t know but would likely be very supportive. I don’t know why I’ve got so far down the road - I don’t think I’ve enabled him, but whilst he knows I have a big issue with it, and the things he has done in the past, he probably feels he is ‘able’ to get away with it.

He has just got up, and will let him know that I know. Don’t think I have the energy to argue about it as I need to spend my energy thinking what I do long-term.

How will you feel, down the track, when the DC find out what he is like and realise that you knew, but did nothing?

"I love my DH is why I have stayed till now, and we have both been there for each other over the years"

I think that you have been there for him but he has not been there for you. His behaviours leading to lying to himself and in turn to you has put paid to that. His primary relationship is not with you; its with the choices he makes freely leading to his lying. Have you really had a big issue with this; if so why have you stayed and what happened to you to change your mind?. Do you think keeping this a secret from outsiders has helped you; no it has not. This has also thrived on secrecy and perhaps you to some extent covering up or for him.

And are you confusing love here with codependency?. His actions towards you and in turn the kids are not loving ones are they because this is all based on shifting sand. And children are programmed anyway to love their parents, no matter how crap they actually are.

Why did he not want to go back to counselling?. I presume he did not want to hear the uncomfortable truth from a counsellor but continued instead to find comfort in the shape of denial. Denial too is a powerful force and his continuous "blips" (calling those that is really you minimising what it is doing to you and in turn your own family unit) will further turn into you resenting him for putting you all through this in the first instance.

@AttilaTheMeerkat think some of your comments are spot on.

I will look into some counselling for me to get my thoughts clear.

Just looked at the piece on codependency, and doesn’t seem to fit. There is an element possibly but we have high interdependence and ‘healthy habits’ in many areas of our lives, and most of the time there is genuinely not an issue. The issue only occurs typically socially when he is out solo, but he does not go out a lot (few times a year, his choice as he knows probably what he and his friends are like and the situations he finds himself in). I go out far more than him several times a month. He has non issues with this, and has many typical hobbies. He does have an addictive personality to whatever he is doing and can be very disciplined about things, even the usual hobbies anyone does but does not try to enforce such an attitude on me. We are both successful on the professional front. I’m definitely not a people pleaser, far from it, albeit I have eased back from rescuing tendencies towards others I don’t tend to be towards DH (more that I genuinely want to help others but can’t take on a lot as I don’t have time, and people need to want to help themselves is my spirit and attitude now). Typically have no issues asserting boundaries just 1 or 2 that I find it hard to break up my family unit for, yes, I feel resentful having to break up my family unit for what he and I both know to be his wrong. This makes me less empathetic to him in the relationship as almost the cost of the deceit. Knowing no one is perfect, 98% of the year he is what I would want my ideal partner to be. I know and readily recognise this as being minimising. He has never been abusive or made me feel unsafe etc., but his poor choices have the potential to have a significant impact in different ways and genuinely want him just to stop doing them, which he has shown now matter how many years go by he won’t.. We do argue but genuinely low level stuff as most of it hinges around usual day to day stuff, and these poor choices when it comes up albeit I appreciate it may be the few times his caught out as he does have an inner button to ‘deny’ so really don’t know the full extent.

one time I nearly went through the divorce process and I definitely saw a true vulnerability of someone on the verge of losing everything (that money can’t buy). I decided to give it one more go as, having a very small child and yes my anger at that point was strong resentment in splitting up my family unit for things I was clear on from day one were a ‘no’. In terms of covering up never needed to as such as his activities have not had a direct impact where I’ve need to ‘cover for him’ but yes by not telling the world what’s going on privately is a form of covering up, and I am probably not quite ready to do so. Even last time I was thinking to progress the divorce and then begin telling others.

I have grown up in a household where I can see that I’m recreating history a bit, middle child, 2.4 children lifestyle. A great dad who we all adore, even now, and was typically a great husband on paper. But as I got older realised that was 98% of the time. My dad has an addictive behaviour towards one thing, different to my DH but my dad’s issue was never to the degree that destroyed our family or lifestyle but for many others it does and can lead to a miserable existence. Others just saw it as something that he likes to do from time to time and saw it as harmless, where as for my DM she bore the brunt of it and probably doesn’t have the same sentiment as others knowing his addiction wasn’t harmless and probably put other pressures on our family that we were not aware of till much older. He still does it now, but she actively manages in a parent child fashion way, and I think she would probably make different life choices given her time again. Where as some of my siblings have gone through divorce and have a more zero tolerance attitude to anything that is a ‘no’ for them once the person has shown they will not stop but I genuinely can see the effect it has had on the children and don’t want this for my children. Don’t think this is the case for all divorces, I think the eXDHs turned into non existent dad’s and that’s where it’s had an impact. I’d like to think DH would not do the same, but from my sibling situations tells me you don’t know. Also, they would still have time with DH following a separation being a unit at least I would know what my DC are exposed to and can protect them as much as possible from this, where if separated that would be more challenging to ensure they are protected from being aware of these poor choices, and would not want them to be part let raised in an environment where they believe it’s ok.

sorry this is so long!

He has not said anything to me all day. Despite me raising it when he got back from his hobby. He tried to deny it and then when he realised I knew - has not said a word since, and carried on his day like everything is normal with the only exception being not saying a word about it or speaking to me.

Addicts lie routinely to themselves and others and can be the most selfish people going. In turn your own boundaries, weak to begin with due to parental role modelling, are being further battered by your husband.

I would seriously consider separation from him now. He is again showing you who he is and now the silent treatment him is amounting to emotional abuse of you. Divorce does not have to be adversarial, it’s how the process is handled by both of you. He has a choice here and he’s still choosing his addiction over you all.

It sounds indeed like history has repeated itself here with you now playing the roles your mother did in her marriage to her still addicted H. She chose someone with an addictive personality as did you. That’s what you learnt about relationships when you were growing up and it’s damaging to you as well as your kids now. She managing it in a parent child fashion way (and really what does that entail not least cost emotionally) is not working for her because he’s an adult. She’s not managing him or his addiction at all, she’s too emotionally preoccupied with his addiction and therefore not fully emotionally available. And how on earth did you come up with a figure of 98% for him, it’s been plucked out of thin air and is really nowhere near that at all if you were being honest with yourself.

your children may not know what their dad is addicted to but they will pick up on all the vibes here both spoken and unspoken between you. Worst of all they could even start to blame their own selves for their parents marriage problems. You cannot protect your own self, let alone them, by you all being under the same roof so do not kid yourself otherwise.

Do you really think that such a man too would be wanting to bother with his kids post separation in a contact centre?. I would certainly want to formalise all contact arrangements using such a place. It’s his sole choice as to what he does and you cannot at all influence that. He could well see them as interfering with his free time, again that is his choice. Wanting someone to stop doing something is about you as well as an exercise in futility, the only person who can decide that is him and he is showing no signs at all of wanting to stop.

Whilst he has an addictive personality. Addict does feel too strong of a word. It’s a bit like having a social smoker. They don’t have to smoke day to day, but find it difficult not to smoke when out socialising but may not do so in all social settings. Very similar, if he doesn’t go out all year he may not do it for a year. If we go out with my friends he would not do it. He genuinely is a great dad, and today has done his fair share of domestic jobs not because his knows his in the dog house but because he does do normally. With both grown in some ways over the 20 years to be a really good unit, it just these issues that come up every so often with extended periods in between. I am sure by the nature of it, it’s not a daily occurrence, weekly or monthly and was not an issue during the extended lockdown period for obvious reasons.

I think I am definitely going to get some counselling for me, and take sometime to think about separation.