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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Abusive? Need a hand hold

30 replies

Glitterspy · 17/05/2022 19:15

Not name changing for this as if he ever sees it I hope it makes him come to his senses.

DH has always been “highly strung”. He’s self-admittedly difficult. He was badly bullied as a teenager and emotionally and at times was physically neglected by functioning alcoholic parents, it’s given him a certain view of the world.

Our relationship is 20+ years and we are 40, it’s been a long stretch and we’ve grown up together and built our entire lives together. Co-dependent doesn’t even cover it. We have 2 primary age DCs.

He can be extremely emotional. He gets “sad” and when he’s sad he’s a total nightmare. He blames me for anything and everything - contents of the fridge are wrong, I don’t support him, I don’t celebrate his success, I don’t plan ahead well enough, I parent in ways that exacerbates bad behaviour in our kids, on and on and on and on sometimes for days on end. He brings up stuff from years ago, things we have talked about and I have apologised for, as if I never had. We will talk it out, I will apologise and promise to do better (or lose my rag and shout and swear that he can do one and I’m fine as I am, depending on the day). The kids will cry and tell us to stop arguing.

I have heard “Daddy stop why are you being mean to Mummy” too many times. If this happens or if I look sad, dissociate or cry this is me “playing the victim” and “manipulating the kids into thinking he is a bully”.

He is a bully though. I feel afraid not physically but of what he’ll say next. It all hurts. He says I hurt him and he doesn’t trust me to be kind to him which I can understand. But his position is that he’s hurt and unhappy and it’s my job to somehow make him feel better again.

He smokes tons of weed, on weekends from early morning onward.

If I get upset and cry, that’s me manipulating the situation with waterworks. If I argue then it’s me arguing not him. He often says he just wants to talk about his feelings and it’s my fault for always interpreting it as criticism. If I don’t let him rant then I’m not interested in his feelings and “he doesn’t have a voice in this relationship”.

After a row I withdraw into myself. He will then start on a new tack about intimacy (lack of, my fault of course and another example of how I apparently “control” and “trap” him). Otherwise our sex life is great, at least I’m happy with it.

He is literally Jekyll and Hyde, and he’s an amazing dad for the children (apart from the arguing). Everything can be great for a month - happy, positive, receptive, normal - and then he’ll wake up one morning under a cloud (the most recent one was “not having anything to look forward to because you haven’t put enough effort into booking holidays for 2 years”)

Anyway today I have given him both barrels about his cruelty and bullying and weed smoking and have told him not to come back tonight.

I love him and I know I do get riled up and shout and get angry. But I feel I do have something to be angry about here. I’m being berated on an almost daily basis for everything I do and everything I’ve ever said or done (is how it feels).

Thank you so much for reading if you have got this far. I am lost. My life partner has gradually turned into an addicted abusive monster in front of my eyes. The sliver that’s left of the old him, the man I fell in love with all those years ago, is still there but it’s vanishing and I’m losing the will to resurrect the relationship.

We are in relationship therapy as of this Thursday. I need a hand hold (or a proper mum hug) please.

OP posts:
Minimalme · 17/05/2022 20:02

I think the abuse you have recently recognised will prove to be the tip of an enormous iceberg op.

People generally don't change (for better or worse) so it is likely he has always been controlling and abusive, but it is only now your kids are pointing out how horrible he is to you, that you can see it.

I think you would benefit for individual counselling so you can carry on recognising his many abusive behaviours.

It is also possible that you are more assertive than you were at 20 and he is having to increase his abuse to keep you in check.

He is a shameless gaslighter - berating you until you ask him to stop, then accusing you of not listening to him. You can win, he makes sure of that.

Minimalme · 17/05/2022 20:03

Can't win...

Glitterspy · 17/05/2022 20:30

Thanks Minimalme, it’s good to know I’m not imagining this.

I fight - I’m not without a temper and am not a victim, but I do get so upset by the volume and weight of everything he lays at my dooor and how backed into a corner I feel.

over a long relationship like this it feels so wrong to just label him an abuser and say LTB. Or maybe I’ve just been so badly gaslighted for so many years that I just can’t see it for what it is. I truly don’t know.

OP posts:
Glitterspy · 17/05/2022 20:31

We do both have individual counselling.

in a way it’s made things worse. I didn’t fight back as much before. He wasn’t as entrenched in his view that the reason I argue with him is because I’m a “feminist”. This seems to be something his counsellor and him have dreamed up together.

OP posts:
Sapphirensteel · 17/05/2022 20:41

He sounds a nightmare.
His behaviour obviously upsets your children.
He’s smoking weed extensively in the home where his children are.
Sounds like he’d blame you for WW3 breaking out.
Why are you with him? How do you imagine yoyr life with him when your kids have moved out?

Glitterspy · 17/05/2022 21:26

Total nightmare, increasingly. But not all the time - I’m with him for a million reasons - we have so much history together, he can be funny, high-achieving and generally brilliant. I love him, he’s gorgeous and sexy and he loves me. But this side of him (of us) is just awful.

To clarify he never smokes inside the house.

I can’t imagine life without him. The kids wouldn’t have their dad living with them. I just can’t face doing that to them…but I don’t want to keep doing this to them either.

OP posts:
Badger1970 · 17/05/2022 21:33

You've absolutely done the right thing for you and your DC.

Now comes the time to stay strong and not listen to his empty promises of change. Chances are that he's so addicted that he can't.

Glitterspy · 17/05/2022 21:35

badger that thought scares me shitless

OP posts:
Badger1970 · 17/05/2022 21:49

It does cause damage to the brain, and if it has, it can't be reversed. Just be aware of that if and when he starts to promise miracles.

We've been there, done that and got the t shirt with DH's sister. She's 50% paranoia and 50% evil rage at the best of times. I refuse to have a relationship with her, DH has firm boundaries to the extent of his.

winterchills · 17/05/2022 22:04

He honestly sounds awful and it's affecting the kids. Definitely leave him!

Glitterspy · 18/05/2022 10:16

It is awful, the whole situation. I don't want to leave him, I want things to improve. Do you think I'm holding out hope of this and it's never going to happen?

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 18/05/2022 10:32

You are clinging on out of some forlorn hope this will improve. Do you not think you've waited long enough?. These types of situations though go one way - further downhill and fast. I would not think his sole counselling is doing much good here; he is just manipulating the counsellor in similar ways as to how he has and continues to manipulate you. Why exactly can't you imagine life without him; ok you so love him but are you confusing that state with codependency?.
What is so bad here about being on your own with your kids?. You're pretty much alone now within this relationship with him as it is as his primary relationship is with substances.

I would think you are codependent in relationships but his needs here are not more important than your own. You've basically carried and otherwise enabled him but enabling has only given you a false sense of control here. In the meantime your lives lurch from one crisis to another at his hands.

The people I feel the most for in all this are your children because both you and their father have let them down. What do you think they will remember about their childhoods?. As soon as they are able they'll be off (particularly if you do stay with him for what are really your own reasons) and they won't be wanting to see either of you; your relationship with your kids is at risk because they are seeing you putting him before them in their eyes.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 18/05/2022 10:33

And get therapy for yourself now and on your own. Do not embark on any form of joint therapy with this man. Its never recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship.

Whiskeypowers · 18/05/2022 10:40

He’s not an amazing dad. whenever anyone writes that in this context it’s a sign of how bad things actually are
if he was an amazing dad he wouldn’t be a weed smoking, emotionally manipulative head wrecker.

gorgeous and sexy don’t hold a marriage and family together but I think you know that.
I would be making plans to separate and putting my self care before his. Your children need to be away from this miserable tumultuous environment urgently before unrecoverable damage is inflicted

Workawayxx · 18/05/2022 10:46

How can he be amazing with the children when: "He smokes tons of weed, on weekends from early morning onward."? Why hasn't he booked holidays if he wants them? Or put the right food in the fridge?

The way your children are responding (Daddy being mean to Mummy) imo shows the extent of the abuse - they see it. He's manipulating and gaslighting you into thinking some of this is your fault but it isn't. I'm unsure if the relationship counselling is a good idea as abusers can manipulate it but I'd see how savvy the counsellor is to it and make a decision from there on whether to go ahead. Keep up with your own counselling at all costs. I wonder if the "arguing because you're a feminist" idea is something he has come up with and has said the counsellor agrees to give it weight.

Things will be much much better for the children not having to witness this shit show, to see you at your full potential and not bending yourself into knots for him. He'll still be their father and still see them, they just won't have to watch him criticise, bully and intimidate you. They can have the best bits of him rather than view you taking the worst of him.

KettrickenSmiled · 18/05/2022 10:57

he’s an amazing dad for the children
He is a terrible, terrible father, who is visiting the fear & insecurity he suffered as a child onto his own DC.

I can’t imagine life without him.
People who are enmeshed in coercively controlling, toxic relationships, do find this hard, yes.

The kids wouldn’t have their dad living with them.
Result.
He's such a cunt in their home they have to intervene & tell their own dad to stop being mean to mummy.

I love him
Debatable. More likely a mixture of habit, Stockholm Syndrome, & Trauma Bonding - www.verywellhealth.com/trauma-bonding-5210779

We are in relationship therapy as of this Thursday.
Oh hell. You really should not be.
If your therapist does not pick up on the fact that you are in an abusive relationship with an Angry & Controlling Man (see link), then they are not experienced enough to handle your case.
Because the correct way for a professional to handle your case is TO REFUSE TO TAKE IT.
Couples counselling is NOT recommended when one of the couple is abusive.
Your H will manipulate the therapist, use the appointment as a vehicle to promote himself & his complaints about you, & engineer every session as a way to excuse his emotional abuse of you.
You need to find a way that these sessions "don't work for you as a couple" & switch to solo.

www.amazon.co.uk/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling-ebook/dp/B000Q9J0RO

"Jekyll & Hyde"
See link above - free e-version here - NEVER LET HIM CATCH SIGHT OF THIS.
www.docdroid.net/2fZmz40/why-does-he-do-that-pdf
You will find your ex's 'type' here, You will recognise him.
He is a mix of "Mr Sensitive" "Mr Demand" & "The Water Torturer".

Gotta run OP but hope you keep posting so I can catch up with PP's constructive advice & support. You need to accept that YOU DO NOT DESERVE to put up with this a moment longer - & your kids doubly so. You are going to need to be their advocate in this. You have been with your H so very long that you have normalised his awful behaviour to an extent. Am sure many PP will be along to help you see the wood for the trees. Hang on in there Flowers

KettrickenSmiled · 18/05/2022 11:03

over a long relationship like this it feels so wrong to just label him an abuser and say LTB.

Don't worry - that feeling is normal.
Wrong, & destructive - but a normal thing to feel.
You are still trapped in the FOG - outofthefog.website/toolbox-1/2015/11/17/fog-fear-obligation-guilt

Of course, when victims (& you are - never mind your strength & intelligence, they don't shield you) have to face the fact that they are living with an abuser & must LTB ... all sorts of nasty feelings emerge.
"I mustn't blame him"
"I am not a victim - how shameful!"
"Things will get better"
"but i love him"
"but he's a Great Dad" (ha! no he fucking isn't!)

It's denial OP.
Because it feels absolutely bloody horrible to finally take ownership of the truth, & start planning your escape.
How do I know ...? Wink

You will get there. You are probably half the woman you'd have been without his constant grinding down of your sense of self. That woman is waiting for you. The only person keeping you from her - is him.

KettrickenSmiled · 18/05/2022 11:05

Sweetheart I really must run now - but THIS

We do both have individual counselling.

in a way it’s made things worse. I didn’t fight back as much before. He wasn’t as entrenched in his view that the reason I argue with him is because I’m a “feminist”. This seems to be something his counsellor and him have dreamed up together.

Fucksake.
Do you see now why couples counselling will be a DISASTER for you?
(Don't worry - it''ll be GREAT for him. The manipulative bastard.)

Watchkeys · 18/05/2022 11:09

I’m not without a temper and am not a victim

You are a victim (even if you are refusing to have a victim mentality), and a symptom of being a victim is that you develop either a temper, or depression (from surpressing your anger)

Your basic story is 'My partner is abusing me and it's also upsetting the kids. He used to be so lovely; how can I get him to change back?'

This is the template. The textbook abuse story. You need to get out.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but there it is. Flowers

AttilaTheMeerkat · 18/05/2022 11:13

Such men too like supposedly "strong" women because it gives them a challenge to take down.

What example did your parents show you in terms of their relationship?.

Triffid1 · 18/05/2022 11:16

oooh, the "you're a feminist and it makes you mean" argument. It's one of my favourites because it's just so ridiculous. I saw a meme once and I wish I'd saved it because it basically said something like, "If being a feminist means I'm no longer going to assume it's my job to do everything and never fight back, then yes, I'm a feministi" (it was much pithier and funnier).

I think it's interesting your'e been together for 20+ years but only now have relatively young children. I think often in thee situations the behaviour is already there but it's less obvious because the person who is being controlled has the emotional, physical, mental energy and resilience to cope. And then children come along and suddenly you're knackered and the workload has tripled and you really you want and deserve more.

I get that you love him. But this sort of behaviour is not okay. The best advice I can give you is NOT to engage. Because every time you shout or cry, he will use that against you. Simple statements, repeated calmly, "I am not the only one responsible for holidays." and then leave the room.

But really, if he doesn't see how destructive his behaviour is, I don't see that this is going to make anyone happy.

Triffid1 · 18/05/2022 11:17

AttilaTheMeerkat · 18/05/2022 11:13

Such men too like supposedly "strong" women because it gives them a challenge to take down.

What example did your parents show you in terms of their relationship?.

Personally, I think they like "strong" women because it gives them justification "she shouts, I am so hard done by. Boo hoo". Wankers.

PollyDarton1 · 18/05/2022 11:24

Couldn't read and run OP, I'm so sorry you are going through this. My ex DP was a little like this (not quite as overt and outspoken) but the main takeaway is I felt very similar to you, and I had our DS regularly telling Daddy off for being mean to me. He spoke to me like shit and nothing was ever good enough.

I left because one day he screamed in my DS's face that he was a "fucking prick" and a "fucking bastard" after accidentally breaking his new TV. That was the final straw for me. He could say and do what he liked to me (negging, gaslighting, manipulation, criticism, stonewalling) but the moment he directed his rage, which was entirely unjustified (it's a TV ffs) toward my DS I instantly knew that was it and made my exit.

I too was in love with him, appreciated the good times, and couldn't imagine a life without him as we'd been together for a while. But honestly, the palpable relief at not living under a dictatorship where everything I did was wrong is so liberating. I struggled, particularly emotionally because I knew at times I didn't help matters (I am also someone who will, to an extent, fight back) and because he had wittled my self esteem down to zero with criticisms, but I'm 8 months out and so much stronger, and recognise I deserved so much better for such a long time. So do you Flowers

Flatbrokefornow · 18/05/2022 11:46

I can see this is a very hard situation. I would just like to add one thing for you to consider. Your children are establishing their expected normal for a relationship from your example. Is it a standard you would be happy with for them? Because this IS what they will expect from their partners when they grow up.

if you don’t want this for them, you have to change it. Honestly, it sounds toxic as hell. It might not be his ‘fault’ but it’s not yours either, and it’s definitely not the kids’. Either he needs to be willing to accept it’s toxic and change (chances are slim) or, in my opinion, you need to get out for your kids’ sake. It won’t change him either, but it will model to them to expect better treatment from their partners. Which is the most important thing here. Tell them he loves them and he’s showing them as best he’s able, but it’s not ok to treat anyone like that. Otherwise they will expect to be treated like this in their adult relationships and that is something I would move heaven and earth to prevent.

I’m so sorry, and it’s hard. But you or your DH aren’t the most important people here.

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 18/05/2022 11:51

he’s an amazing dad for the children

No he's not. He spends all weekend stoned, shouts and rants and sulks when he feels like it and you're deluded if you think this will ever change now.

This is a toxic relationship and it IS and WILL affect your children forever. You're continuing the cycle of an unhappy upbringing.

You need to split up before you do any more damage to each other or your kids.