Are narcissistic people born the way they are?

[leafyrosepetal]

I've looked this up. I'm quite sure my mum is a narcissist and am wondering to what extent some of the nasty effects are in purpose or are just inherent. I'm trying to look at it all objectively and accept she won't be changed but I'd like to understand it a bit more because tbh the way she treats me is so hurtful even though I make an effort to forgive her everyday.
I hope it's not a choice but also accept it may well be one.

She will put her reputation before absolutely everything. She has to be right and everyone has to know what a lovely person she is when I know she really isn't lovely, she's spent at least my lifetime lying to people then dropping them if they start to question the truth. Trying to process my life now. Especially as I have a dd.

I know that because I was raised so badly it's had a knock on effect on my own parenting skills and I'm trying to make sure I am a good parent and don't allow my upbringing to result in bad parenting by me

My mother had a distinct narrative about my elder sibling which was that he was a genius. She indulged him and then couldn’t manage his tantrums. I don’t think it occurred to her for one minute that his violent outbursts and rages affected anyone other than herself, and I believe she was ashamed of that side of him. She excused him and blamed others when things went wrong. E.g., I was ‘jealous’. I was jealous - she boasted about him all the time and

Whoops…

and often gave into him, only to get tough on me to try to maintain some sort of order.

I have been very self centred in the past because my self esteem was so low and I needed a lot of propping up, and didn’t find it easy to trust praise and kindness. I hope I’m better now but it was a hard lesson to learn.

Narc parents often have highly empathetic children. I am one. Highly empathetic people are a magnet for narcs, because they think they'll get all their supply from that person.

Anyone wanting to understand narcissism better would do well to work their way through Dr Ramani's Youtube films on narcissism.

Really interesting thread here.

My in laws are both narcs badly.

Knew it the day I met them. Fil makes my arm hairs stand up just entering a room.

Nasty people who have up until the last year caused havoc with their controlling and manipulating behaviour so much so that finally dh has gone completely nc with fil and very lc with mil

It's been a real eye opener for him and a roller coaster of emotions that he has suppressed over the years

I've always said I can't believe how patient and how much he would put up with because I just never would but now he explains it that his entire childhood was the same inc violence and emotional blackmail so he knew no different in terms of their behaviour.

He finally stood upto them and won't back down which has given him the space to step back and see things how they are.

It's so damaging and in my support of dh over the years I've let so many things go that totally go against the grain for me but the difference in dh is amazing.

It's been v hard and mil still likes to pretend alls well and it's normal but then she's equally as awful so he stays away from her really so as not to be sucked back in.

It's taken her nearly a year to realise it's no good trying to manipulate or comment because she gets told to leave

My late mil had BPD and was a textbook narcissist (she was diagnosed in the 90s)
She drove her daughter away, but my Dh did stay around for his dad as she used to bully him. He had an awful life.
A lot of it was her terrible childhood and losing her own mum when she was a toddler.
My Dh had to learn to cope with her , but it was so hard for everyone.
I understand it now , but , to my shame really I didn't get it or understand her at all
She was nasty and manipulative, but could also be very kind hearted too, just not towards her own family.

I can understand why you want to know the answer to this, but you never will. It's basically nature vs. nurture, and nobody knows.

It's more helpful to think about what will actually help you now, dealing with the situation you are in and with her being the way she is.

It can be hard to put aside that question of 'why', but you will drive yourself mad going round in circles trying to work out the reasons - I know, I've been there.

With the narcissistic person I knew, they had a parent who was similar - but even knowing that didn't help - it doesn't really tell you whether it's genetic or a learned behaviour passed down the line.

I think what you really want to know is whether you can blame them or not, for what they did to you. Did they make themselves that way, or did someone else make them that way? Is it their fault? Was it in their control and could they do things differently? - if so, you can be justifiably angry with them. If not, if it's just genetics, you can forgive them.

The truth is it doesn't matter. We are all responsible for our actions and behaviours.

My ex h is definitely a narcissist. He had a very tumultuous childhood and I believe his mother is also a narcissist. Neither can ever accept responsibility for the things they do, they lie compulsively, people are useful or not to them and if not then they get dropped like a hot brick. Both very superficial but come across to strangers as lovely friendly people, both wouldn't hesitate to push you under a bus to save themselves if they had to. I genuinely believe its part nature and part nurture ( or lack of nurture).

I'm not sure if my ex-P has a formal diagnosis, or if he's just far along the spectrum with his personality traits.

His mum is very similar - it's all about appearances & lots of demands, expecting to be utterly pandered too - and god forbid if you challenge them!

His brother is lovely though, as is his dad.

No matter what, he's just a cunt & I avoid him as much as possible x

I must admit that my late mother in law didn't lie , but sometimes her version of events were twisted so she always was the good one and everyone else had the problem. Then play one off against the other
When we looked up narcissistic personality traits online she ticked every single box.
I think that the word to describe people is thrown around a bit too much sometimes ( I know it's hard to get a diagnoses or any help these days though and the internet isn't always accurate ) but anyone living with one who has traits of this type of personality certainly needs some help how to deal with them.

I work with someone who is clearly narcissistic but has no idea. They are very intelligent and seem to know that something isn't right, they claim to suffer from anxiety and depression but have no insight into taking responsibility for their own actions and behaviours instead they blame everyone around them.

I have had long discussions with them (Not my choice) about their childhood growing up and they now believe their mother is autistic and is a cause of their issues with emotions.

They have ridiculously high expectations of other people and think that everyone constantly thinks badly of them and judges them. I think this is because they are so judgemental and self centred themselves and can't believe that no one else really cares that much.

No, like most personality disorders it's a result of childhood trauma. Which isn't to make excuses for how they behave or say we should put up with them.

Great advice. I tell her little minimal visits. My aunt tolerated her for family sake. Sums it up. Its hard though as its years of it. My dad spoiled her.

I think it is due to childhood trauma but that some people are more genetically predisposed to it.

My Mum, her sister and their Mum are all narcissists. Of their children, one is, one might be and four aren't.

In terms of childhood trauma, my Mum and Auntie didn't suffer the same level of abuse that me and my siblings did. My Gran was very invested in her career which means she was often too busy to roll out the abuse. Whereas mine was a SAHM who happily spent her days making our lives a misery.

I do wonder whether my Mother is a sociopath? She was physically cruel and used to put us in dangerous situations quite frequently.

I am NC with my abomination of a Mother but I am genuinely afraid that she might drive past me and run me over, only to get away with it because little old ladies can do no wrong and are always kind and nice.

I don't think there is much of practical use to be gained by establishing whether a narc is deliberately horrid or can't help themselves. My mother's mother was an abominable woman. I can fully understand why my mother has ended up as she has, but I have more difficulty in understanding how she cannot see how damaging her treatment of her children has been to us, given her own experiences. Perhaps deep down she can see, but she would never admit it. I ruminate on it from time to time. Mostly I try to concentrate on how to manage the relationship in a way that minimises hurt to me because I am not prepared to go fully NC. The day might come if she pushes me too hard but I hope it won't. So I work on boundaries, grey rock and whatever other techniques seem to recommend themselves. You might want to check out the Out of the Fog website, OP.

Being raised by a narc does not mean you are one too or that you will pass this on to your child if that is what you are worrying about.

You are questioning your parenting skills and looking for advice. That should tell you that you have self-awareness and the ability to doubt yourself and look for advice. This is the opposite of being a narc: they are unable to see or unwilling to admit that there might be something wrong with their behaviour and they think that they are always right/superior to everyone else.

I think the main thing about narc, rather concerning yourself about what might have made them this way, is that they will never change because of their inability to see themselves clearly. Best thing to do is either to have no contact with them or find ways to make sure their behaviour does not negatively affect you.

As for psychopaths and sociopaths. The consensus seems to be that psychopaths are born and sociopaths are made (usually by early childhood trauma). They cannot be ''cured'' but some can function in society and have regular lives.

I had a narc mother and a father with sociopathic traits. It has definitely affected my personality and ability to form and sustain relationships but I am also self-aware enough to have managed to lead a normal-ish life although it had a massive impact on personal relationship and my mental health.

Definitely through how they are raised

I'm not entirely sure but my narcissistic relative is like a carbon copy of his father. So similar, even though his dad died when he was very young.
Same mannerisms, same utter belief that they are wonderful human beings, same complete disregard for other people.
Sometimes when he says something, if I close my eyes it could actually be his father. It creeps me out a bit.
People always think they are/were wonderful until they got close and realised they were actually very nasty and vindictive.
I manage the relationship by practically being nc. Hard to see other family members get hurt but I've tried to explain they won't change.