STBX constant low level gaslighting. How to deal with it?

[cottagegardenflower]

Getting divorced from abusive H. Mostly cold/distant/hostile/verbal and emotional abuse.

Unfortunately it will take a long time to go through and in the meantime I am trying to maintain a civil atmostphere for the sake of the kids. One or other moving out sooner is not an option and it will take probably a year to financially disentangle things and get some degree of freedom.

So we have to talk. H is angry at the divorce and angry (nothing new there) with me for not allowing myself to be contolled any longer.

The high level gaslightling I can deal with because I have enough self worth to know what he tells me about myself if untrue. So I ignore.

However every other verbal exchange is low level. eg. Is this the cold you had last week? Implying I am unhealthy and weak. I know what he's really getting at is a dig at me for having a cold as he's always boasted about his ability to shrug them off in a day. Please don't think I'm being paranoid. I know this man inside out and everything is about winning and making me look weak and pathetic.

"Is this the cold you had last week"
"what do you mean?"
"There's no need to get defensive and cause an argument"
"I'm not causing an argument, I'm just asking about the context?"
"Well you're not going to the Gym as normal on a Thursday, but if I'm not allowed to make a conversation without you creating an argument out of nothing..."
"I'm not creating an argument"
"There's no need to shout" (I'm not shouting)
"I'm not shouting as you well know" ... by which time I stop and leave the room as I realise he's had me again. It's like he leads me into these exchanges over and over again. If it involves the kids I have no option to reply and he does ^^ in a different form.

I am so sick of myself for falling for this but I don't want to have to obsess over what he says constantly as that is what he wants, him at the forefront of my mind, but this leaves me open to ^^
Any advice?

Just say yes

Is this the cold you had last week?

Yes....

You haven't gone to the gym

True....

One word answers

Why are you getting defence

OK.....

Give him nothing

”Yes”
”probably”
”what a funny thing to say”
”ok”

just repeat these as needed to any and all enquiries. He does it because he knows he can get you to bite which he enjoys.

don’t get into a conversation unless it’s about the children. In fact why not change all communication to email or text? You can remain civil in front of the children but when they’re not there don’t speak to him.

I wish I knew. H does similar things, ties me in knots, I have a big knot in my belly from his behaviour yesterday. He does the "don't you shout at me", if I'm standing my ground and not giving in to his bullying. He tells the DC I've done things I haven't, then they go "mummy why did you do XYZ," or "mummy why are you shouting" and he's so convincing and sure he's right and this has been going on so long it's hard to hang onto any certainty about the more low level gaslighting.

I had similar with my exH. I used to challenge myself to respond as little as possible.
"Hmmm?" vague smile.
Wander out of room, frowning at phone.
"Uh huh?"
One word replies, preoccupied expression.

Don't engage if you can possibly help it, and then he will have nothing to hit back with. Good luck.

This is so familiar😢

It's the catching me everytime that makes me angry and upset at myself. Not him, he's an arsehole and will never change. So only I can change my reaction.

I think I trained myself when the kids were small to give them full explanations and be a reasonable parent. Not, "because I said so", but "because the cat might scratch you if you take his food". So I'm doing the same with H and need to retrain my responses. Sticking to one word replies sounds the easiest way and a way of not focusing all my attention on him waiting for the next exchange.

Its bloody exhausting though, but there is an end in sight.

Lots of non-committal and vague responses. Give him nothing except a far-away expression and a 'hmm' then wander off.

So I'm doing the same with H and need to retrain my responses. Sticking to one word replies sounds the easiest way and a way of not focusing all my attention on him waiting for the next exchange.

Good instincts OP.
www.e-counseling.com/mental-health/what-is-the-grey-rock-method/

Give him nothing

This is absolutely it. It's so hard to do if you're normally a clear and generous communicator (although I would put money down that your STBX has told you many times you don't communicate well!) but giving absolutely minimal responses is the best way forward.

The old saying "Never complain, never explain" is made for dealing with these kind of wankers. Don't bother telling them when they've done something to upset you because they will only deflect, minimise, argue and turn it back around on you or fake-apologise in a way that lets you know that they don't really mean it, and then they won't change their behaviour anyway, so you'll get no satisfaction there. And don't bother explaining yourself to them when they pick at you because they have absolutely no intention of seeing things from your perspective and are only interested in wilfully misunderstanding you as part of their pet project to generate a narrative in which they can paint you as the 'bad guy' in their heads.

You have to make up your mind that he is getting ZERO free rent in your head from now on. You also have to make up your mind that when he inevitably reacts to you creating this boundary that his sad/bad/mad feelings are his responsibility to deal with and not yours. Your responsibility when you are feeling internally frazzled by his behaviour is to have a 'go-to' list in your head of healthy things to do that will immediately make you feel better and take your mind off him. Taking a bath, watching a good TV show, stepping outside for some fresh air, sending a friend a funny meme, reading a book, going and having a cuddle or playing a game with your kids – whatever works for you.

I found it helpful to keep a few time-worn (and therefore easily memorable) phrases in my head – like "Don't throw pearls before swine" and "I am in charge of my own peace of mind" – that I could just repeat as a mantra when I felt myself getting irritated at him and feeling tempted to react/defend/explain.

I know you are wanting to keep a civil atmosphere for the kids but that's a lot of stress to put on yourself given that he's not working with you, isn't it? Perhaps it's more realistic to decide that you will be polite but otherwise completely disengaged/impersonal – like you would with an over-familiar shop assistant. You don't need to make it your job to keep the peace in the house.

In some ways it may be better for the kids to understand that there is a level of tension between their parents so that your separation does not come as such a big shock for them, and when you are finally in two separate homes, they will be able to experience a tangibly greater sense of comfort and peace that helps them understand at a visceral level that the decision to split was for the best.

You are playing a long game here, never forget that. It's tempting to respond in the moment to provocations, and it's normal to feel a strong need to defend yourself but you don't have to do either. You know your own mind and your own experience, and you're allowed to maintain your own internal sense of peace and happiness through whatever means work best for you.

OP, you could always reverse it on him by acting a little like a 2yr old child.

Him ''Is that the cold you had last week ?''
You ''Why ?'' (spoken very quietly)

Him ''You haven't gone to the gym as usual.''
You ''Why does that upset you ?'' (Again, spoken VERY quietly)

Him ''No, I'm just concerned about your health.''
You ''Why ?'' (And again VERY quietly)

etc etc, basically question him like a 2yr old does, with constant 'Why ?' questions, over and over and over again endlessly, and always in a VERY quiet voice.

If you keep doing that, in an endless loop of 'why' and short questions about 'why' HE'S 'upset' or 'worried' or 'anxious' about what you're doing, he'll never be able to

1. Get you upset at his 'digs'.


2. Accuse you of 'shouting'.


3. Make YOU feel that he's 'won', making you seem 'weak/unhealthy' etc

Just treat him like a 2 yr old....

Just say a cheery "yep!" Then walk away. Don't engage. You need to treat him like a dog - he wants attention so don't give it to him and he'll get bored. Turn your back and walk away. You don't need to engage with him about anything that isn't very important and even then, if he starts his tricks you can walk away.

Google grey rock technique.

You're still looking for validation from him. You're still needing him to agree with what you think, needing him to understand you. That's what's at the root of this. Because when he tells you you're angry and shouty and causing an argument, there's a part of you who's frightened that he's right.

Think about it: if he told you you were a 100 legged cat, you'd look at him as if he was mad. He could insist as much as he wanted, and the more he said it, the more of a loon he'd seem to be. And that's what he's doing. He's saying you're doing things you're simply not doing. He's saying you're being things you're simply not being.

So, instead of engaging in a 'Look, you can see I've only got two legs. You can see I don't have hair all over, listen to my voice, am I miaowing?!' sort of discussion, just recognise it for what it is. Think about the way you'd look at him, think about what you'd say, if he told you a lie about you. A little chuckle? 'How have you come up with that?!', 'Sure, sure, you're right, you're so right' (sarcastically)

In short, validate your own truth. You don't need him to agree with you. He's just one individual bloke, not the arbiter of your personality.

Grey rock.

I got to a point with my ex (although not when we were living in the same house) when I could greet his sallies with a grin and a little chuckle at how utterly predictable was - it would throw him completely and he didn't know what to say. You can try to make a game of it, "bastard bingo". Take an internal bet about what snide little comment he'll come up with and laugh when he does it.

Obviously be careful if there's any possibility of him getting violent though.

Ex does this on the phone and gets all riled up booming don't shout at me why are you causing an argument ive literally done nothing its all for the benefit of his audience

I refuse his calls

@CheekyHobson You know my H personally? 😆
@Watchkeys Clearly, so do you and you know me too! I think the emotional entanglement is still there despite all the evidence of years of shit behaviour from him. I'll never understand that.

Thank to everyone on these great ideas.

He did have a change of tactic yesterday as I had grey rocked him for a day, and because he wanted some updates on the estate agent from me, (basically he wanted something). He was all nice with a cheery "how did it go ...." and "I've bought extra chips for you, they're downstairs". OK. No thanks. Stop.

Today, I'm simply ignoring him and getting on with work.

@Theunamedcat I got to grips with the phone calls (he did exactly as you said, and would even goad me into anger so that his audience could hear me. Soon cottoned on and I simply hung up.

I think the emotional entanglement is still there despite all the evidence of years of shit behaviour from him. I'll never understand that

It makes sense, really. Given that there were years of shit behaviour, you will have had to habitually make excuses, let him off the hook, find ways to agree with him so's not to have to argue, etc.

You have a habit, OP! That's why it doesn't make sense, in the same way a smoker can know it's totally wisdom free to light a cigarette, and yet they can't help it. Or a drinker vows not to drink today because they know it would be a really bad idea, and yet still they drink.

It's a learned behaviour pattern, and just like it's hard to drive on the other side of the road when you go abroad, it will be hard for you to change your responses, because you do it automatically.

Change it bit by bit, one interaction at a time. You may drop back into the old habit sometimes... doesn't matter, carry on changing it. You'll get there.

He's also likely to try a variety of tricks on you, now, because he won't know how to regain control. He'll probably try every tool in the box, from being sweet and lovely, to being upset, to being angry, and all shades in between, until he finds a trick that gets control of you.

If you feel yourself caving in, think 'Ooh, clever boy. Nearly found a new way to manipulate me!' and steel yourself.

Good point, @Watchkeys - you can learn to guard against him being nasty, and then he'll throw you by suddenly being nice. It's like judo, when you can easily floor your opponent simply by getting them slightly off-balance for a moment.

Just give a distracted ‘yeah’ and keep walking….as if you’re not really listening to him.

Yup, it's the abuse cycle. They find ways to be nice to you that are enough to reel you back in. Then whump you again. It is like judo!

So did the 'nice' yesterday, and just now he accused me of being in a bad mood for days. I slammed my bedroom door in frustration. He caught me on the hop cursing him under my breath (😂) which unsettled my composure and made me react. Hence the door slam, yelling at him to keep out of my safe space and him saying I'm the one in a bad mood. One up to him (again) but it doesn't matter I'm done with it and him and he knows it. Make the most of it shit face, you won't be indulged much longer.

Arghh! I just wish he couldn't get under my skin so easily.

I'll reread all the above again because they make so much sense and my reactions are habit I know

Adopt the vague “Mmm?” Look as though you’re deep in thought over other things.
Is this the cold you had last week?
Mmm, yeah could be……….. ( looks back at book)

Always be doing something, reading a book is a good one ( use a kindle/ kindle app so you don’t have to keep changing the book) or learn a new skill online, using headphones. Once you’ve don’t the Mmm, vague look thing a few times he’ll get nowhere.

I'd go one further and just shrug silently.

"Is this the cold you had last week?"
Shrug.
"Well you're not going to the gym like usual"
Shrug.
"Well you're clearly in a bad mood!"
Shrug.

Can't be bothered to even respond.

Because you are a good and reasonable person and he is manipulative