Abusive ex’s video calls to daughter and overly emotional. Advice needed.

[Fightingback17]

I need a bit of advice before I report to Cafcass and make a mistake.

Bit of background. Left abuse a few years ago. Been at family court for 2 years, ex not had contact with daughter 6 for over 2.5 years. He was found guilty of emotional abuse and anger. Contact via IFCA (supervised and reported) being arranged and judge ordered weekly 30 mins video calls supervised by me in the Eve so he can read a bedtime story.

What has been happening. He spends a large amount of time asking what he can buy her gift wise ( even though not ordered, he was allowed to send a small xmas gift). Then shows what bought her her previous week to post to her. Then spends about 10/15 mins telling her how much she loves him in various ways, till I die, till the moon and back etc etc. Goes onto your daddy is the best so you are the best. There’s no one I love more, then daughter repeats. Then onto can’t wait for you to stay with me. I’m going to buy a puppy (same bread as the dog I had and had to give away when I fled) call it the same name, I can buy you gifts. So then daughter repeats I can’t wait to stay. She has now been walking around saying I want to live with daddy and not me. I only love daddy etc.

I call it love bombing, he has literally seen her for 1.5hrs in all those years.

Only this morning after last night she is saying daddy is my favourite as he says he loves me in all those ways and you don’t and you don’t want to buy me gifts so I only love him.

This is so hard. Do I report this back to Cafcass as this is not what the calls are meant to be about.

Yes I would

Record and report

Your ex isn’t doing anything wrong on the calls. He’s connecting with his DD and expressing his love for her. Love to the moon and back is a quote from a childrens bedtime story How Much Do I Love You. Theres nothing overly emotional that I can see.

Your DD playing him against you is normal behaviour for any DC with two parents. I wouldn’t take it personally when she says she only loves Daddy and so on, at that age DC are quite blatant about trying to get their way (your DD obviously wants gifts) by saying things like that. She does love you, don’t doubt it for a second.

@Discovereads i thought that also but it went on for a long time. Also I love you till I die, I love you and only you, there is no one more special in the whole world, there is a star in the sky I named your name and I look at it every night and cry for you and on and one in one 30 mins call. I felt so weird but maybe that’s normal.

It felt weird.

I disagree that he isn’t doing anything wrong, abusers are master manipulators. Get him to stick to the details of the Order.

I would report his behaviour to CAFCASS. He's using and otherwise manipulating his child as a means of further "punishing" you for having the gall in his eyes to leave him, he thinking he is the most perfect of specimens.

@Flatandhappy this is something I have struggled with. Is he a manipulator and forcing her to have emotions so soon instead of letting them come naturally. Talking about getting the same dog and calling the same name to me is odd behaviour and manipulative. Others say he is just a very emotional and loud person. I’m biased now but it feels so odd listening to it.

It true we here on MN can’t really tell without a recording whether he is being loving and affectionate or is crossing over into manipulative love bombing. So honestly, as you have concerns it’s ok to record a session and send it to a support worker or SS to get a professional opinion.

I mostly wanted to say that your DD saying those things is pretty normal at that age and not to feel hurt by her.

He has not changed and remains abusive towards you and in turn his child. Abusers are master manipulators and your DD is not emotionally mature enough to be aware that she is being manipulated by her dad.

I would also be contacting Womens Aid and your Solicitor.

@Discovereads it hurts me to think he is manipulating her and she is saying these things in his voice. It’s not her fault and it’s what I’ve fought so long in court for. It all feels like a waste of time, all those courses etc he went on and he is the same.

This sounds chilling and completely clear that he is being extremely manipulative. The way you can tell is that he is governing the framework and the intensity for her emotions, and she can only choose options in it. Report. It is textbook coercive control.

All this love-bombing and promises is not healthy, if he only has a half-hour slot.
He should be asking her about her day. You know, meeting her needs, not his.

As someone who was on the receiving end of a much milder version of this, I'd say you need to nip it in the bud a.s.a.p. In my case, I didn't know it was going on and my child became more and more alienated from me.

I'd speak to a trusted organisation about what to do first, because you could easily come across as an embittered ex, and recording these calls (while absolutely The Most Sensible Thing To Do) without his knowledge could cause you trouble if presented in the wrong way.

Good luck!

I would record the session- and make it clear to ex that youbare doing so. That will likely result in him changing his behaviour as he will know he is in the wrong. Which in turn will protect your daughter from this twaddle. And if it doesn't stop him then you have the perfect recording - with his permission - to share with everyone involved.

As you are supervising you need to prompt him to stick to the rules. So if the rules are a bedtime story then prompt him to read the story etc. OR ask for an external supervisor as you are not able to keep him on track and fear hebis using the sessions to manipulate her again.

What worries me is that if I report back (which the officer said I could if I had concerns) they will accuse me of micro managing him. When he gets unsupervised he will be able to do what he wants to.

You could record and submit saying you just want to ensure his behaviour is suitable, as he’s doing more interaction that simply reading a bedtime story. On the surface it is friendly and loving, your DD feels loved by her dad and enjoys them. However, you are uneasy about the dynamic, and due to his history of abusing you have concerns it could be grooming. So you’d like a social worker to view a recording and advise you.

That way it’s being recorded and reported but without you coming across as bitter or vindictive. It’s a “I’m not sure but given his history, would like a independent professional opinion on this”

But he's telling dd how she loves him- not just how much he loves her and then asking her to repeat, that's not normal. I ask my kids to list off the people who love them but to make sure they know they're loved.

What concerns me is the intensity after 3 30 min calls after so many years gap. The endless prompts about toys and gifts. She before hand wanted to speak about things she was proud of that week and read him a short story but it was hijacked with endless declarations of love to and fro.

Its a scary and I remember now when we first met and the intensity and how I was swept off my feet only to later be threatened and abused when I wasn’t perfect.

He's grooming her, claiming her. It's predatory.

Not in a sexual way, but it's entirely inappropriate. Presumably he's also lying, as she won't be staying with him, living with him, getting a puppy.

Is he sending the gifts?

Is he supposed to be sending gifts?

I'd be very careful.

Emotional abuse/grooming, clear as day. Parental alienation, even. Report to Cafcass, if you can bear it.

@picklemewalnuts I presume after the face to face contact has began and the supervised contact gets reported positively then she will be staying, he and my daughter would want that. He will be better behaved once supervised by the professionals.

As for the gifts no at the this point it’s not supposed to be happening. These 30 min calls are just in the meantime whilst the paperwork for supervised contact gets up and running so a report can be made for the next hearing. I doubt he would get a puppy as currently works 7 days a week, or so he told daughter yesterday and he lives in a flat, so who knows. Bit early to be talking about puppies. What I found odd was same breed and the same name as the dog we had. The one he kicked and neglected that I had to let go as the place I fled to I couldn’t keep her. He was laughing whilst talking about the puppy, it was all so odd.

I missed the bit about future face to face, supervised contact, having been arranged.

I'm concerned- he'll potentially brush the puppy thing off as 'I know she misses the dog she had and this will be a nice replacement'. The overall effect though is, as Cloudpine says, parental alienation, emotional abuse etc.

Are you in touch with women's aid? You really need experienced people helping you identify this behaviour, and more importantly, interrupt it.