Need a hand hold please. Genuinely stuck in so-called 'relationship'

[Valleria]

I know people say no one is 100% completely stuck in a relationship, but for me the negatives of leaving him would be too much.

I'm an idiot. I met him when I was a teenage single mum of a young dc. He is a decade older. A couple of years later when I was 20 I relocated to his area to move in together and we planned a child. When I was pregnant soon after moving in, he decided he didn't want the responsibilities - well he never actually came out and said that, but he basically just moved back in to his parent's house.

We argued a lot about it, but I loved him so much I suppose I decided to stay 'with' him. He did love me a lot back then too, I know, I know, but I felt his love. He'd stay over a couple of nights a week. Just to make it clear, I went to college and after that worked full time since I was 19, so I'm over the threshold to qualify for benefits except child benefit, so I have not been frauding like you hear about people doing!!

When our dc was young, whenever we'd argue, he'd threaten to take dc to live with him. We split briefly when dc was 5, and he started the court proceedings. We got back 'together'.

In 2015 I fell pregnant accidentally and I wanted to keep the baby, but he said it would ruin other dc lives (his more like), we would split etc, and I feel that although it was ultimately my decision, I took the decision due to pressure from him and to save the relationship. I think about it every day and didn't get over it, I hold a lot of resentment towards him for that. I think that was the beginning of the end.

Written down, it sounds awful. It hasn't been all bad. We have had good times and there must be love there for us to last so long. I have not been an angel to him either at times I have been cruel with words.

Fast forward to now, I am now mid 30s and our dc is in secondary school. Our dc spends 50/50 time with each of us for years, although recently his dad wants more time, and expects to just pick him up on 'my' days whenever he feels like. DC is scared of his dad emotionally, his dad will withdraw from him if he doesn't do as he says. DC loves his dad, but does say that he is scared of being rejected if he doesn't do as he says.

Our relationship isn't great at the moment and not been for a while. All of this year at least. I am older now and more mature and feel like I'd consider leaving, but I honestly feel I cannot. I have taken legal advice and I don't have a leg to stand on given DC age now, they will just ask DC where he wants to live. I will not be separated from my dc any more than I am already (I also resent him for leading me on years ago to believe we'd be a family, and now I only get to see my dc half the week and his half sibling too who he's close to). I couldn't stand it. I have no doubt dc dad would manipulate him into saying he wants more time there. He sometimes refers to dc as HIS child, and he has tried it before.

I wish, I so wish, that I'd have been smarter years ago. I wish I'd moved away (not a long way away, just around 20 miles or so near my family), I wish I'd stuck up to him and given him weekends only and not set this precedent.

I feel I am stuck until our dc is a few years older and goes off to uni. By then I'll be 40. I'm sad that I'm wasting my life. I feel like if we could get things back on track it could be okay, but there's little love between us now, our sex life has gone stale, we bicker a lot, he doesn't make time for me any more or seem to care, he's mid life crisis and acts more selfish. I spend a lot of time feeling hurt and mildly sad about the state of our relationship. He won't discuss anything, just says it's me 'making up issues'.

Wow this is so so long. Sorry for anyone reading!!

So you don’t live together and already split custody is that right?

If so then please end it, you are wasting your life and this isn’t a relationship. Not living together makes it so much easier - you’re still so young!

If you 'left' him, what exactly would you be leaving?
You don't live together.
You support yourself.
Basically, you're co-parenting with an awkward sod and he's mucking up the rest of your life.
Does he pay child support? Do you have any financial or legal connection with him?

The two issues here are

1. You aren't his partner. He's some kind of oppressive dominator. So you can - without even telling him - withdraw from that and get on with your life.
2. Your dc needs support regarding dealing with the dad. Discuss with the dc. What do they want? Are there still mediation services for families? The dc is being manipulated, possibly by a narcissist father (I'm not diagnosing. But this is narc behaviour, sometimes). How old exactly is the dc? And, just curiosity, what happened to your older child?

It looks, from the outside, as if you have nothing to lose by considering yourself free of this man. Your dc needs some support but might choose to live with dad - almost any dc of separated parents can make that choice. It might not be the end of the world.

@SophSoSo Yes. I cannot split up though, because he is extremely manipulative and will want our dc - who is secondary school age - to live with him most of the time.
Dc is scared of his dad emotionally, not physically, as in if he misbehaves at times at his dad's sometimes his dad will threaten to not see him again, which is fucking ridiculous way for a parent to behave. DS is so scared of his disapproval and rejection that he would not 'defy' him.
He already constantly turns up to pick him up 'for a quick walk / football / snack' on my days with ds as it is.
If I split up with him I suspect (in fact, I know as he's done it before if I so much as hint I'm not happy) - he'd be very very difficult and try to keep him away from me as 'punishment'.
At DC age then any court would just ask dc what he wants and I'm scared his dad would manipulate him into saying he wants to live with him full time.
I don't have the money to take it to court either and I doubt they'd even think it worth a case since ds is secondary school age and can just go between houses as he wants.
Like I said, I wish so much now that I'd have moved 20 miles away and got custody when dc was younger. It's too late now at secondary school age.
There is and has never been any court order in place.

You need to protect your child. He needs therapy to deal with coercive control. So do you. That’s the first stage. The second stage will be to get away.

Your "boyfriend" is abusive to both you and your DC. Have you considered ringing Woman's Aid or your local domestic abuse service to get some advice? They will be able to help navigate leaving him, and what measures can be put in place for your DC.

Have you asked DC outright where they would prefer to live? You say that your DP could manipulate DC, but I'm wondering whether that is fear talking, or whether your DC has given an indication of wanting to - because if your DC is secondary age and is already aware and has witnessed his Dad being a manipulative cock, there is every chance he will want to just stay with you and there isn't anything DP can do about it.

Your son is being abused by his dad.

@StopStartStop Thanks for your advice.
Yes, he is mucking up my life.
No he doesn't pay child support because he has dc 50/50, no legal or financial ties.

1. I get what you are saying, but I can't just withdraw from the so called 'relationship' without him noticing. We see each other on days off and we stay at each other's houses about 1 or 2 nights a week. If I stopped that, he would notice and then the playing nasty around dc would start. It's really hurtful for me because I swing between trying to 'work' on the relationship and then hating him and feeling trapped.
2. I know, I do try to support dc in dealing with his dad. It's difficult though. I have asked dc and trust that he'd be honest with me. Dc says he wants to keep the 50/50. It's difficult to describe how controlling his dad is though. Dc gets no discipline at his dads and his dad's parents whom his dad lives with, can afford all the best tech for him, so that's a pull for dc.

Another aspect is that his dad will use control methods on dc. For example a few months back, dc wanted to go on a trip with me and my family, but his dad does not like my family. His dad turned up to collect him to stop him going on this trip, and dc defied his calls to him and did not to to the door (I refused to open door). His dad then ignored dc for a week and then made him cry by telling him he was considering never coming back for him (!!). It's this type of manipulation that leaves me in no doubt his dad may try and may succeed, in manipulating dc to stay there most of the time.

DC is 13.
My older DC is 17 and lives here and they are close, but they are different sexes so don't really do a lot together, sometimes they do.

The thing is, it would be, not the end of the world, but so hard for me. The way I feel is I didn't choose to only see dc half the week, although I accept he has to have time with his dad. I really do not want to lose any more time with him (dad already turns up lots on my days and has no respect for my time with him). If it was dc choice, then fair enough, but it is not and would not be his true choice. He would be manipulated and coerced into it.

Even if you don't have the strength to leave him for yourself surely you should be more than concerned enough about your child to leave him it is definitely not a good environment for a child. Hopefully after all this time your child hasn't picked up any bad habits or thinks relationships like this are normal

@LemonTT and @cornflakedreams Yes. I know. I hope this doesn't come off as rude, but there really is no 'help' as you put it. Yes, I've spoken to Women's Aid, Yes I've had legal advice. Dc is on a 2 year (yes 2 year!!) long waiting list for counselling. There is no way I can afford private counselling.
Dc is 13 and he would be adamant he wants to keep the 50/50. Or, if his dad ramped up the control (which he would if we split up) , then he may even be coerced into saying he wants say 70/30.

@PollyDarton1 Yes, I've asked dc outright. He says he wants to stay 50/50.
He knows full well what his dad is like, sometimes he will show insight into it and say things that indicate he is aware of it. He loves his dad though and is obviously torn about these realisations. He's very loyal to him.

Yes, it's not just fear talking. Honestly. See my above about the family trip. It's likely he would be able to coerce him somewhat. He even manages to coerce his own parents into doing what he wants a lot.

I do feel like it would be worse for dc if I left him. His dad would ramp up the manipulation to try get him there all the time - to 'punish' me - and dc would feel torn. 😥😥

How old is the half sibling?

This isn't a relationship, it's sex with an ex. And I'm surprised that you expect your child to behave differently-he sees his dad calling the shots and you putting up with it, so why wouldn't he also capitulate to his dad's whims and unreasonable demands?

A lot of these posts are about the effect on you. You’re describing the coercion of your DC, but the point of concern is that the coercion would be successful and you’d miss him.

I feel very very sorry for your DC.

Can you access counselling at school?

I think you just have to trust your dc and help him get the skills.Emotional manipulation doesn't work forever and if you ask the school for help or even get him books on boundaries he could build up the skills himself.

You could introduce the subject in relation to friends or show him examples from films. It's a life skill to understand boundaries and how some people will try to manipulate.

He may have a fear of the consequences but the party incident shows that his dad may sulk but ultimately will see him again.

I went through something similar so know how daunting it feels but equally it's very positive if you give them skills. Their dad might not be the only manipulative person they meet in life.

The only person keeping you and your child in this mess is you. Your son needs your support to stand up to his father and for you to set a good example. Sadly, you are not providing that right now. Things will change if you change your behaviour.

I’d approach your child’s school.
I think your child would benefit from seeing a school counsellor on neutral ground. Your child can be assured he can say exactly what he wants. He can describe how his father makes him feel, and how you make him feel I suppose.
This will help a court decide what is best for the child as it will only have his needs at the centre of the decision.
This man has a hold over you because you let him. He’s had his own way all your adult life. Does he see other women? I’m assuming he doesn’t have any intimate relationship with you but if he does please get checked out medically.

He’s an emotionally abusive control freak. I hope you have the strength to walk away.

I'm sorry I posted.

I met him as a traumatised teenager. I have suffered PTSD my whole life. Despite this, I built a career and I have raised both dc the best I can, by myself mostly.

No, it's not 'all about me' - I do not want dc exposed to even more time with his dad because yes he does copy his manipulation. I know it's not the best for him, that's fucking why.

Yet I have people jumping to attack me.

What do you expect me to do? There is no legal route for teenagers for residency. No quick counselling to just magic up with how services are.

@Fireflygal Thanks for the constructive advice.

Ime bide your time just a bit longer. My exh allowed our dc to be feral. Drink, drugs, no school etc. Didn't see ds 13 for a year as he knew he would get into trouble with me. At 14 he grew a pair and left exh's home and moved ft with me. His df's power had no effect anymore.. Seen him at funerals and at the dutiful exchange of Xmas cards. Ds is 20 now. His df has no control. Ds is a great lad.

Your ds will also find courage op. Remember he is half you.

I broached the subject of counselling at the school with him a while ago. Dc point blank refused. Would not even consider it, no matter how much I tried to reassure him they are impartial to the school and confidential, although he said he would a non-school counsellor. So went through the GP and he is on a minimum 2 year wait list.

I don't understand your relationship, you don't live together but your partner wants more time with your son. Why don't you live together if you are a couple?

So what would happen if you moved, and got a new SIM card and didn't tell him where you were living?

Probably nothing. By the time he gets round to court your child will have been deprogrammed.

So he turns up to try and stop your DC going on a trip. A trip he knew about only because one of you told him about it. Ever thought maybe it's best to not give him such details?
It looks a lot like you've not been able to let go of him all this time and you are still putting up excuses. The upshot is that your DC has ended up more damaged than if you'd split years ago properly. He is not going to get more than 50/50. I doubt he'd bother spending the money to take it to court as it sounds like he's a tight wad.
Stop seeing him if that's what you really want, so what if notices? Then stop letting him come around on your days. Most of what you think will happen won't, it's empty threats and you are showing your son meantime how to live a life that's been manipulated. Just be honest with yourself as it sounds like a whole lot of excuses and barriers that you are putting up, including predicting a future scenario that's unlikely to happen. Do you really want to be separate from him, or are you still hooked and clinging to the drama of it all?

I am so sorry to hear this, what a horrible place to find yourself and your DC in. I completely get that you are doing your best to protect your 13 year old on the basis that 'staying together' is the least worst option for both of you right now.

But you are already looking ahead to a better future, which is great.

FWIW here's my children's story. XDH is a controlling twat who had zero interest in doing any actual parenting but a lot of interest in being seen to play the part. I knew that if I left he would want a lot of access, and I couldn't bear to put my kids in that position.

When they were teens we did split, and as I thought DH insisted on 50:50. DS knuckled down and got on with it (autistic traits, good at detaching); he clashed with DD but she was better at understanding her power. He was an intolerable husband and father of small children, but as teens with some independence they could see his shortcomings (as well as his good qualities) and knew that in not so long they would be able to choose how much or little of a relationship they had with him.

As it happened they gradually detached and now have very little contact with him. He's also moved on and remarried.

And as for wasting your life - you'll only be 40 at most when you break free - plenty of time for a whole fantastic new beginning. I met new DH at 49 and have never been happier.

@StrangeCondition We lived together only for a short while when I was pregnant with dc. It was his decision not to live together for all this time. He likes it because he can live with his parents and take no responsibility for anything, but still have close control of dc.

@AlisonDonut I cannot do that to dc. It would damage him more.

@Opentooffers Dc told him about the trip. I don't want to tell dc not to tell him things because that is more pandering to him. As I've already said, the courts won't have anything to do with it. I don't have the money anyway so it's a bit of a moot point, but even if I did - DS is 13, and as I understand it from lawyers (who were aware that dc dad is controlling coercive but they say it's extremely hard to prove) - that DS will get full say. His dad is so manipulative and coercive that I am genuinely worried he would get dc to say he wanted to live there full time. No, of course I don't like the 'drama' ffs. Our 'relationship' has been slowly disintegrating for years. I didn't realise how young I was in my teens and early 20s so put up with it, and then what happened in 2015. It's only recent say 3/4 years I have finally thought I want to leave. At times I still love him, yes, it's been 16 years after all, but on balance, now I would leave if not for this issue. He literally threatens to take dc if we argue, saying I am a bad parent etc.

@LadyGardenersQuestionTime

I'm so glad you are out of the situation now. I hope that is me some day.