The fallacy of perfection

[Draincover]

I just wanted to make a note, comment, that many people on MN are very quick to judge over small samples of conversations and life events. And point out that there is rough and smooth.

All people are flawed, and can occasionally behave unreasonably, irratically, and say stupid things.

One stupid interaction should not equate to an LTB!

I appreciate that small snippets and windows into people's events can gloss over larger context. And that some almost insignificant happening can be the straw that breaks and strains the camel's back.

My personal relationship is hard, it's flawed, it's strained. It sometimes feels impossible. Other times it's remarkably rewarding and comforting.

There's no constant upside, no such thing as sheer perfection.

We can all say stupid things, or simply get misinterpreted. Get unintended reactions and cause hurt. Does that make us terrible people?

Take a small snippet of conversation you have had with whomever: replay it. Forensically exami it. It can then adopt a totally different meaning.

Sometimes reading MN it feels like a bear pit.

Often though, the little thing when discussed in the thread, turns out to be symptomatic of much bigger things that are going on.

That's the empathy that allowed my abuser a free pass.

I agree, although perhaps if the poster wants some real advice or feedback rather than just a moan and letting off steam, it could be helpful to say something along the lines of this behaviour is the final straw, or the relationship is good just needing a moan so that those commenting know the tone. It can be difficult to read tone on text, and most people read it from a place they're in whi h could be close to a ltb situation 🤷‍♀️

There’s a lot of people putting up with shit they don’t need to though and assuming it’s just what men say or that’s how a relationship is

Nobody is saying everything should be perfect but verbal abuse, emotional abuse, control or obviously physical abuse have no place in a relationship regardless of any justification you can make for it

@Draincover Being in a functionally dysfunctional (ie “normal”) relationship myself I would normally agree with you, but reading some of the stuff on these forums has opened my eyes to how utterly dire a lot of women’s situations are, the burdens that they carry, managing kids, money and housing insecurity and dealing with men who frankly are not worthy of the name. It puts some (not all) of the LTB reactions in perspective.

I don't think people post on forums for support/help/advice, if one off-hand comment has been made. Healthy relationships allow for that. People who post with little examples or apparent one-offs are usually at the end of their rope with on-going issues that they may or may not have identified. Encouraging people to let 'little remarks' go stops them asking for help when they feel a 'little remark' has pushed them over the edge, into posting.

My personal relationship is hard, it's flawed, it's strained. It sometimes feels impossible.

Good for you, but not everyone wants to stay in a shit relationship just because you've decided to. I had one like that too, and when I ended it, life was immediately better.

With hindsight I can see that all the platitudes people like you dish out, about relationships being hard work and taking the bad with the good, was spectacularly harmful to me and my kids by making me second guess my instincts to leave when I should have.

Why do you think people post on here for relationship advice? Hint: it's not because they're in a healthy, respectful relationship and someone got mildly irritable and said something silly. It's because something bigger is building and their instincts are screaming at them.

I'm now in a relationship that is not hard, or flawed or strained, it's wonderful. Everyone deserves that.

Agree to some extent OP. A bear pit it is, often. Sometimes even the struggling OP is herself ripped apart for one flaw of her own in her presentation of her problem.

And I agree it is good to see the positives in relationships.

OTOH, with some posters it’s just awful what they are putting up with from the get go. They will nearly always leave of their own volition at some point.

I think there is something missing and it’s the fact that not everyone has the same boundaries.

The shitty things you are happy to accept because we are all flawed might be a red line for someone else.
there are things I read in here that wouod cross my own boundaries and would never accept (but many women seem to do so 🤷‍♀️) and at other times, I can’t see why so am y people are LTB.

What most of those threads do imo is highlight that and give a different insight to the OP (and anyone else reading). It’s not a bad thing because I personally think too many women have standard well below what should be considered acceptable.

One stupid interaction should not equate to an LTB!

Sorry, but there are many "stupid interactions" that should be immediate deal breakers. Sadly, far too many women have absolute shit boundaries and standards.

My personal relationship is hard, it's flawed, it's strained. It sometimes feels impossible. Other times it's remarkably rewarding and comforting

I don't think this is healthy. Relationships have their ups and downs, but a healthy relationship doesn't feel flawed and strained. It's not hard. The only distinction isn't between 'hard' and 'perfect'. There's a middle ground of contentment, of issues that come up not causing a strained, hard feeling.

I'm not sure you're in a position, OP, to be guiding other people on how relationships/advice should be, when your own relationship is hard and strained, and your advice is, at best, subjective.

So @Draincover post on the messages you advice in not LTB and try to help an OP rather than having a whinge at others for responding.

Be part of the solution not skirting around the edges.

I have no magic bullets and scant sage advice. My own discontentment and discomfort certainly can feel unhealthy. I can spend a weekend with another couple, and relatively our own mess can feel a thousand times better, witnessing their dysfunctions.

I could post snippets from most interactions I witness and on here it would be met with a LTB! I agree that when people approach here they may be pushed to the limit. Some are letting off steam. Some just want to gauge normalcy.

Sure we could all be better human beings. My comments are of an observer. Mumsnet feels savage. I don't want to excuse bad behaviour. Or demean other poster's shitty experiences and traumas.

Perhaps we are brow beaten and can't see the wood for the trees when lost in the forest. Outsiders often can.

Outsiders can sometimes see things more clearly

Nobody has a perfect relationship but it doesn’t have to be perfect just not abusive

I suspect I would tell you to ltb op if I knew more about your relationship

Would it make you feel more comfortable with what sounds like quite extreme ups and downs in your own relationship if other posters on here didn't have different standards for what constitutes an acceptable relationship, OP?

I don't think anyone who posts here expects total perfection in a relationship.

But highlighting what some people should and shouldn't put up with can start to change the norm.

How are we ever to change the treament of women if not by talking about ill behaviour. Mn is the perfect platform to help, educate and highlight women's rights for future generations.

Some people no matter how bad a relationship are not looking for a cure, just temporary relief, and this is not what this forum is about. We are about empowering women to live the peaceful life they deserve, no life is perfect, but peaceful isnt too far off.

OP " I can spend a weekend with another couple, and relatively our own mess can feel a thousand times better, witnessing their dysfunctions."

what happens if you compare to a peaceful happy life alone? That's always an option.

If I was to reel off a few incidents/activities from both sides you would say LTB.

I know relativism is a bad barometer.

As for a peaceful happy life alone. I just can't imagine that anymore. And don't think that's attainable for me.

I also can't imagine another relationship. At all. And have no want for one.

My partner is fantastic on many levels. But our relationship just isn't perfect for whatever reason. And none of my previous long term relationships have been either.

The idea of LTBing to greener pastures here is just a complete fallacy.

There is plenty wisdom in the crowd that's for sure. But I would be wary of some loud voices with pitch forks. Especially those that love the sound of their own voice.

Without getting too meta, it's very difficult to gauge users on MN. It isn't the best forum. It's very flawed. But is what it is.

Well, OP, MN doesn't claim to be more than an internet forum i.e. collection of human beings.

i find users here to be funny, intelligent and helpful in times of need.

I suspect your post isn't really about MN.

btw none of my relationships have been "perfect" but they have been rather lovely. Some might say that makes me lucky. But it might make me fussy - I've only had two LTRs and I'm 46. Fussy maybe leaves you with...lovely relationships? I don't do drama.

As for a peaceful happy life alone. I just can't imagine that anymore. And don't think that's attainable for me

The more you say, OP, the worse things seems to look, for you.

If you feel that MN is a bear pit, then don't read it. But why are you posting your judgement? Why do you need to announce to everybody what you think? What did you want from the thread? For us all to have a look at our behaviour? For us to amend our opinions?

Too many people believe that being in any relationship is better than being single. And they are wrong.

Being single is infitely better and easier than being in a bad relationship.

Of course no relationship is perfect. But in a good, healthy relationship you NEVER doubt you are loved. You have utter trust in each other. You are both supported and respected and heard. Even on a bad day, when you're suffering a problem together or one of you is going through a rough time, you both know you are loved and you have each others' backs.

When people post on here about one thing, it's rarely about one thing (or they wouldn't be posting). So often it's the tip of the iceberg. I agree that people can be quick to LTB. Some circumstances deserve it.

Relationships shouldn't be hard work. They are meant to make both parties' lives better. If they don't, what's the point? If you have to work at it most or all of the time then it isn't the right relationship, and single would be better.