Handling in laws being crap to dh

[Notquitemanaging]

I am after advice on how best to support dh with his family. They live abroad - parents, brother, his girlfriend and kids and so we only see them on holidays and it is always awful. DH is quiet, gentle and easy going. BIL has criminal history, drinks heavily, is aggressive and I would say emotionally abusive to his family eg swearing at them at very high volume in public, name calling etc. His various businesses have also included fraudulent selling of non existent time shares etc to vulnerable people he identifies through illegally buying contact details on what I’ve learned are called “mugs’ lists.” Really charming bloke.

He has also been historically financially dependant on his parents for rent, bills etc but always manages to spin a way out of paying back fully and makes big gestures like buying expensive gifts whilst actually still owing thousands. I feel v sad for the GF and kids in all this but also my DH as the absolutely standard thing that they all do when we are together is mock / find fault with him, way beyond standard family banter. I really don't get it beyond assuming they’re trying to even things somehow, I really don't know. He is constantly mocked for being, say, broke because we live in the UK, or tight for no reason at all and when he bought everyone a massive take away this holiday and so calling him tight didn't work they went on about it being horrible and he cant even get a take away right. The reason i think they go for money stuff is actually bc of the other son’s history - it is as if they have to find faults with my DH that are really the brother’s to even things out? One night, after his brother screamed in the street at his girlfriend that she was a “mad fucking bitch” my MIL looked uncomfortable and then later said to me “of course growing up it was (dh) who had the temper” - I have been with DH 20 y plus and not heard him so much as once raise his voice.

I think his family are basically unkind and uncomfortable around him because they don't have much in common and also they want to pretend their other son isn't the nasty piece of work that he really is so have developed weird habits of constantly finding fault with DH as a sort of distraction.

Ive talked it through w DH who seems to have a sort of grudging sense of loyalty to them. He doesn't like them very much and it makes him unhappy but he doesnt want me to say anything and wont himself. Professionally and personally away from this lot he is confident, happy and really relaxed, but with them constantly on edge and defensive.

It is his judgement whether or not to see them and short of constantly telling him I think he is fab and theyre being unfair I cant think how to help. We dont get much holiday together and feels like every year a large chunk of it will be spent like this - there isnt any way round this is there?

Why do you see them at all? Can you support dh to limit the length and frequency of visits? They sound horrible.

I cant see anything about kids is that because you have no children? Are you planning to have children?
I ask because that sort of environment is very toxic so make sure any children are kept well away from it.

In terms of your husband theres not much you can do. Ideally going no contact is needed but that needs to come from him. Are the in laws like this in the absence of BIL? Would they mabey visit you to stop the constant weird comparisons with his brother.

Don’t criticise them. You need to hold the space for him to find a way to identify these things. When you criticise, he’s forced to defend even if it’s just in his head.

I’d be strongly urging him to seek therapy - something holistic and gentle and ongoing rather than a short course of CBT- it’s going to take him time and space to come to terms with his history.

I want to, but that feels controlling when it is his family not mine. As it is we are limited to a few times a year because if school holidays but it does add up. He is keen to please them so agrees to visits / trips I dont think he wants and it is really hard to talk to him about it because I think there is a deep seated lifelong sadness lying behind his desire to please them which I need to be very careful with. He is a fantastic man, partner and father and tbh when this topic comes up either emotionally disappears or seems confused and child like in his reactions - I dont really recognise him, it is really sad and strange.

I would absolutely refuse to see these people. If your husband wants to subject himself to their bullshit, that's his problem. I would never, ever visit them.

Sorry catching up - we all have kids yes - it is my BIL’s kids I most worry for and want to stay in some contact with to check they are ok. I hate my own kids witnessing this stuff too, they are largely off playing together but they see the shouting and it is grim. We talk about it and I say their uncle shouldnt behave like that.

Overall the in laws behave better when they are not with the other son but his dad still constantly criticises him. He is academically and financially successful and I think the dad feels threatened and has various demons about his own education and a desire to be helpful or add value and it all just comes out in constant unsolicited fairly critial “advice.” I get it too sometimes eg at dinner this week having my salary which he had guessed weirdly accurately being derided as paltry for the hours I work as a teacher… drives me insane.

Have tried encouraging therapy. He is very old school and so not pushing it just making sure he knows how it could help.

I would not allow children to be exposed to this toxic and abusive relationship.

@Notquitemanaging

Sorry catching up - we all have kids yes - it is my BIL’s kids I most worry for and want to stay in some contact with to check they are ok. I hate my own kids witnessing this stuff too, they are largely off playing together but they see the shouting and it is grim. We talk about it and I say their uncle shouldnt behave like that.

Overall the in laws behave better when they are not with the other son but his dad still constantly criticises him. He is academically and financially successful and I think the dad feels threatened and has various demons about his own education and a desire to be helpful or add value and it all just comes out in constant unsolicited fairly critial “advice.” I get it too sometimes eg at dinner this week having my salary which he had guessed weirdly accurately being derided as paltry for the hours I work as a teacher… drives me insane.

He has been looking up teacher pay scales and working it out. It won’t be a guess.

If they live abroad, you can find excuses not see them so often. Say to your DH that you want a half term at home, tsign the kids up to do a sports camp. One visit in the summer is MORE than enough then people live abroad and are actively horrible. Say it is for your own sanity. Also, don't stay with them, stay in a B&B/hotel.

Almost certainly actually yeah. I dont want my kids round these people at all. The problem is they (esp mil and pil) are always nice to our kids and there will be long enough stretches of it being sort of ok (not great or anything just not awful awful) for dh to kid himself it isnt that bad. But it always always ultimately is.

Feel too sad for dh to sit him down and really firmly say “these people are not in your corner the way they are supposed to be and that you are for our kids. You dont owe them anything.” He knows his brother is bad news and is less fussed about seeing him but maintains this understandable but completely baseless hope about his own parents.

They never even ask him any questions about how he is or his job or life - they just mock him or talk about how much better their lives are to a really really weird degree like obsessively demanding to know what a pint in our local costs or a sandwich in the cafe so they can crack up and go in in boring detail about how cheap things are where they live. Sigh. Need to remember to focus on important stuff ie the fact they completely accommodate their other son’s criminality and abuse and are horrid to dh, not the fact that they could also genuinely bore for britain…

You say they are nice to your kids, but how is it nice for your kids to hear their dad being slagged off all the time?

Sorry last one was meant to be a reply but dont think it worked - meant almost certainly looked up my salary.

DH’s tactic historically is to avoid booking flights to avoid dealing with admitting he doesnt want to see them…. they then book them and arrive uninvited or we are obliged to go. We need to be firmer but has to come from him and is hard to find space between encouraging him to set boundaries and putting pressure on him. Apart from anything else Id rather book our own flights if we have to go away to see them because his dad always goes for the option where he saves a fiver but the timings / connections leave kids absolutely knackered or where you dont get to choose seating so we have to do last minute on flight negotiations to not have small children sat alone.

Sorry, all coming out, just tired of years pretending things are better than they are. The brother is genuinely nasty but the dad is a fairly unpleasant, unboundaried and strange man too and the mum just seems happy so long as she has a large glass of wine and no one addresses reality. Dont get me wrong, i love a wine but if my son spoke to anyone let alone a woman the way hers does I would not look the other way then slag off their sibling.

@Eatingjumper interestingly they dont do it when the kids are about which makes me think on some level they know it is out of order. The whole environment is bad though and they are increasingly aware of it, mainly the way their uncle speaks to his family and how much he shouts. Think that is the strongest argument for avoiding them as much as possible.

So they turn up at your place then? How difficult. I really get your position.

I wrote a self help book on dealing with child abuse and there was a section on handling families of origin.

You say you don't want to push your husband and I get that.

But part of me recognises that you are the healthiest person in the dynamic and now....you are reaching the point where you need to see change, as it is abusive.

One of the points I made in my book was that it is helpful for abuse not to be passed on like links in a chain. That's what's happening here.

But your husband wants to remain in denial. And that's where the open door is that let's in the risk of more links in the chain being made.

I think I'd probably try buying and reading self help books about abuse and family dynamics. Read them and discuss bits with him. Let it sink it. Use the right language. I think your perception that they are twisting the brothers faults onto your husband and scapegoating him is accurate.

I've got to go, I'll be back later to finish...x

This is super helpful - thank you!