Is this what narcissists do? I really need some help

[sleepymum50]

Hi, I know everyone bandies this word around, but I’m seriously thinking he is. I think this is my first ever post.

Here is just one example:

We were having a bit of a bicker and at one point he called me a lazy cow. He doesn’t do name calling, but I didn’t bite because yes, I can be lazy at times.

A few weeks later during another argument, he was telling me how he always supports me and would never say any thing mean to me.

I then mentioned that actually he had called me a lazy cow a few weeks back, i did this very calmly.

Then hell broke loose and he got so angry. He said, that he never said that and in a million years would never say that. He was devastated that I could say that to him, and think that of him.

I tried saying to him that he had said it, it was no big deal, but I remembered it, because at the time it was unusual.

Anyway long story short, he refused to believe he had said it, refused to agree to disagree and I had mortally offended and insulted him. I had to apologise to stop him being so angry at me.

It feels like anytime I criticise (however mildly or trivial) it always gets turned back and becomes my fault. I’ve so many more of these.

I am a really mild person, and he pretty much does what he likes with his time and money. Married but both retired.

It seems as my truth and his truth don’t always match, but he’s not happy until I see things the same way as him.

So I need some help, does that above example sound so silly, I’m an idiot to get so wound up. Or do I need to start thinking LTB?

How can you be helped here into leaving your abuser?.

Narcissists and other types of disordered of thinking people often practice gaslighting as a means of exerting power and control over their chosen targets (in this case you).

Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that often occurs in abusive relationships. It is a covert type of emotional abuse where the bully or abuser misleads you, creating a false narrative and making you question your judgments and reality.

Ultimately, the victim of gaslighting starts to feel unsure about their perceptions of the world and even wonder if they are losing their sanity.

When someone is gaslighting you, you may second-guess yourself, your memories, recent events, and your perceptions. After communicating with the person gaslighting you, you may be left feeling dazed and wondering if there is something wrong with you. You may be encouraged to think you are actually to blame for something (hence all this apologising you did for something he had done) or that you're just being too sensitive. I would think he's called you over sensitive amongst other false charges so many times over the years.

Blame-shifting is another common gaslighting tactic. Every discussion you have is somehow twisted to where you are to blame for something that occurred. Even when you try to discuss how the abuser's behavior makes you feel, they're able to twist the conversation so that you end up questioning if you are the cause of their bad behavior. For example, they may claim that if only you behaved differently, they would not treat you the way that they do.

This is not going to improve for you at all so I would end the relationship. Am so sorry to write that but you cannot stay with someone like he because he will further destroy you emotionally. Womens Aid would be well worth your while contacting here as would seeking legal advice re separation and divorce.

Yep. That's exactly what they do. I don't think they even do it deliberately. It seems to be a natural thing they do. They make barbed comments at you when they're not really thinking, like they're not really in the present moment. So then when you remind them of it later they have no recollection of it.
I think it's something to do with the fact that narcs don't have that enduring one true authentic self that non-narcs have. They are layered, like onions.

I'm sorry OP. My husband is like this. It's so frustrating.

It's gaslighting and abusive. LTB

I'm sorry that you are having to endure this kind of behaviour. It sounds as though this is an unhealthy relationship and your partner is using a manipulative tactic of 'gaslighting' which is a tool of psychological abuse ie. denying reality and making you question your own sanity. I would recommend using extreme caution with terms such as 'narcissist'. Narcissism is a diagnostic based description and can only be applied in an informed clinical setting. People can be abusive without any underlying mental disorder/health issue. It would be wise for you to talk to someone close to you about the situation and assess whether the relationship is doing you more harm than good. If the relationship is making you feel unsafe, please find a safe space to reach out to a local womens aid organisation who will be able to support you further.

That is what is known as gaslighting. Vehemently disagreeing with you and denying what you know to be absolutely true.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

How can you be helped here into leaving your abuser?.

Narcissists and other types of disordered of thinking people often practice gaslighting as a means of exerting power and control over their chosen targets (in this case you).

Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that often occurs in abusive relationships. It is a covert type of emotional abuse where the bully or abuser misleads you, creating a false narrative and making you question your judgments and reality.

Ultimately, the victim of gaslighting starts to feel unsure about their perceptions of the world and even wonder if they are losing their sanity.

When someone is gaslighting you, you may second-guess yourself, your memories, recent events, and your perceptions. After communicating with the person gaslighting you, you may be left feeling dazed and wondering if there is something wrong with you. You may be encouraged to think you are actually to blame for something (hence all this apologising you did for something he had done) or that you're just being too sensitive. I would think he's called you over sensitive amongst other false charges so many times over the years.

Blame-shifting is another common gaslighting tactic. Every discussion you have is somehow twisted to where you are to blame for something that occurred. Even when you try to discuss how the abuser's behavior makes you feel, they're able to twist the conversation so that you end up questioning if you are the cause of their bad behavior. For example, they may claim that if only you behaved differently, they would not treat you the way that they do.

This is not going to improve for you at all so I would end the relationship. Am so sorry to write that but you cannot stay with someone like he because he will further destroy you emotionally. Womens Aid would be well worth your while contacting here as would seeking legal advice re separation and divorce.

I think you have provided some really good advise. I would caution against using the term 'narcissist' as this is an exclusively diagnosable condition. Abusive people have many tools such as gaslighting that are not necessarily attributable to a mental health condition or disorder. I'm assuming you probably already know this as you sound quite knowledgeable, but its important to remember this nevertheless.

Great advice, @AttilaTheMeerkat.

Point taken.

Its not narcissistic but gas lighting

It can fall under narcissism but yes, you're being gaslit. I spent years thinking I had an awful memory because of it.

Thankyou. I know in my heart it isn’t right. I’m waiting to speak to a therapist. I know I need to do the ducks in a row thingy.

A couple of times in the past (years), when we’ve rowed he’s done the “I’m calling a divorce lawyer if you carry on like that”. I wish now he had.

I worry that if I tell him I want to leave it will get nasty, whereas if he decides it will be easier in the long run.

I dropped this bombshell on my poor daughter on Sunday (she was visiting for Mother’s Day) She is totally supportive, and although she loves her dad, she knows there’s another side to him.

However she was just about to put her house on the market, so she and I could be closer for childcare ( she’s desperate to move).

Otherwise I would wait it out. But now I feel I need to do something now, and the honest truth is I’m scared.

Feel the fear and do it anyway i.e. see a therapist and firm up plans to leave this man by seeking your own legal advice on the quiet.

As he is abusive towards you he will not making you leaving him an easy process out of wanting to keep power and control. He will likely be obstructive and difficult throughout and will also remain so post separation.

Abuse is about power and control and he wants absolute over you here. He has not followed through on his own threat to call in a divorce lawyer because he is lazy and likes having you around in order to abuse (along with cook and clean for him). Set yourself free from your abuser going forward. Your daughter will also thank you for doing that.

Womens Aid would also be worth contacting here as would be the Rights of Women organisations.

@sleepymum50

Thankyou. I know in my heart it isn’t right. I’m waiting to speak to a therapist. I know I need to do the ducks in a row thingy.

A couple of times in the past (years), when we’ve rowed he’s done the “I’m calling a divorce lawyer if you carry on like that”. I wish now he had.

I worry that if I tell him I want to leave it will get nasty, whereas if he decides it will be easier in the long run.

I dropped this bombshell on my poor daughter on Sunday (she was visiting for Mother’s Day) She is totally supportive, and although she loves her dad, she knows there’s another side to him.

However she was just about to put her house on the market, so she and I could be closer for childcare ( she’s desperate to move).

Otherwise I would wait it out. But now I feel I need to do something now, and the honest truth is I’m scared.

What about her buying somewhere and you living in an annex?

Dunno about narcissism as such but it’s gaslighting. As others have said, re-writing history to suit them. Usually done out of guilt and cowardice because what you actually said is true but they’re too “manly” to admit it and apologise. So they deflect and deny then escalate into an argument until you back down and agree with them for a quiet life.

On the other hand, and I’m basing this on you saying you’re both retired..If it’s out of character for him to behave like that, perhaps he needs a trip to the docs to run tests for vascular dementia. He may genuinely not remember calling you names and be genuinely horrified that he did and genuinely be worried that he doesn’t remember and rather than admit that he deflects into an argument.

Of course, if he’s been a shouty man all your married life then ignore that last paragraph.

My old workplace colleagueswas exactly like your original post. He even said those things in front of my boss...she did have words with him...but it didn't stop him. I complained to HR, I was offered redundancy (and a decent redundancy pay to keep my mouth shut) and he was given a promotion.

I walked out of my job and felt amazing. Turns out they then shipped him off to another office after that (I was the third, that I know of, lady he treated that way).

You don't have to put up with the behaviour if you don't want to

Getting your ducks in row sounds like a good idea.
If you're afraid of his reaction, you can tell him after you leave.

Hey OP. Do you have money? Do you meet friends? Do you feel you can do what you want? Often, an abuser can take these things away without you even realising. They make it so you believe it's your choice. So you choose not to work, go out, have a friend over because the abuser makes it easier to "choose" not to. If you recognise any of this then please be so very careful. A break up can be a trigger point for an abuser.

If there is even a hint of this, you need to get advice and support. If you need a place to do this away from him, go to boots chemist (lots of other pharmacies also in the scheme) and ask to use their "safe space". They will give you a safe room, info and telephone access.

Sorry if all this sounds dramatic and not relevant to you. I absolutely hope that's the case. Hope you find peace.

Two things. Has it always been like this? How old is he?
You say you are both retired, could it be early dementia.
My DH has always been prone to gas lighting me, it is a learnt behaviour, his mum has classic narc characteristics and he is almost NC as a result. She is a very accomplished gas lighter and DH was subjected to this behaviour as a child, he acknowledges that he defaults to it sometimes.
However he has recently had a stroke and it is now obvious that he has been having TIAs for some time which have led to odd behaviour. We had a lovely chat last night, he is becoming aware of how his emotional behaviour has been affecting the family and feels very guilty. Narcs have no concept of how their behaviour impacts on “lived” ones. This is a massive leap in terms of recovery.
What I’m trying to put across is that to the outside world he would come across as depressed ( he has been incredibly lucky that physically the stroke has done little damage). Your DH admitted to collapsing post Covid. There has been research suggesting TIAs and strikes are a post Covid complication and my DH started having problems after having Covid. The cause of his stroke was high blood pressure which is a recent problem. But for his age and general health he was not high risk.
I would be encouraging him to see his GP for a full check up to rule out any underlying health issues before seeing a solicitor.
Chronic illness can lead to fatigue and low mood. His depression may be the result of a more serious underlying condition.

“Loved” not “lived”

The main symptoms that DH had post Covid were breathlessness, he has mild asthma so that was blamed. He developed ED, no problems pre Covid, again put down to anxiety/age. Dizzy spells - he has always had a tendency to go dizzy when standing up suddenly.
He had extreme fatigue and low moods with frequent headaches. Again he assumed it was Covid related.
The big red flag in amongst your post is the collapse. Particularly since he felt so bad it required a 999 call.

Look up whst narcissism actually means. Too many people throw the narcissistic word out there when in fact you're just with a c##t. There's a difference

It's great that your daughter understands. That will no doubt make a huge difference, knowing that she knows what he's like and supports what you're doing. It will be harder for him to gaslight you when you have real life support.

With the usual caveats about narcissism requiring diagnosis and being a much-overused term, what you describe are classic traits of narcissists, OP. They have a certain view of themselves that they will fight tooth and nail to preserve, because the "narcissistic wound" is too painful for them to even acknowledge.

You might find it helpful to read up on narcissism because it will validate what you are experiencing and stop you feeling as if you are losing your mind, which was my experience of my professional gaslighter ex. Honestly it's soul destroying if you let it get to you but this is his problem, it is not you.

But while your ducks are being carefully lined in a row, to save energy and sanity you have to detach from his looney conversations. Keep records of everything if it's possible for you.

Thankyou everybody for your help. He’s always been like this and I’ve always let him get away with it.

However since I’ve been menopausal (last five years) I just don’t seem to care about him any more.

Just before COVID he told me he wanted to move. We have lived here 20 plus years. We’d had three different incidents in the previous year, think along the lines of complaints about our parking and a disagreement with a landowner about boundaries. This upset way more than I think it should.

He said he was out of love with the village. I was dead against it at first, but he said we could be much closer to our DD, and some of his family. So we all became quite exited, my DD started looking at Rightmove.
Anyway, last summer he changed his mind, doesn’t want to leave and said he’s got over himself. He’s now trying to convince my DD and her family to move closer to us. The kids are preschool, and they both Wfh, but even so they’ll be over an hour from their offices, friends etc.

My Dd would really like me to be closer, and so would I so I can help with baby sitting etc. I’ve tried explaining that the three of us adults (me, and Dd and son in law) all want one thing, and he wants the other. But he just says he wishes he’d never raised the idea in the first place - he doesn’t even seem to feel apologetic about it.

Thankyou for all your comments, and I’m taking it all on board. I was thinking about it so much yesterday, I ended up making myself feel sick and just went to bed.

He’s away for a few days, so I feel I can relax. I’m going to reread all your advice and comments and get some legal advice.