If you're stuck on whether to stay or leave.

[DragonOverTheMoon]

I've got the best book recommendation ever! Lundy Bancroft, should I stay or should I go.

I think a lot of the time the well meaning advice and echos of it's not you it's him don't sink in. They didnt with me and I was told to LTB again and again. It took my best friends to pack up his shit and change the locks. For 4 months after I have been debating whether to get back with him or not. His words and manipulations created such a fog that i genuinely couldn't make heads or tails (and I'm a grown woman with dc and a professional job). I fell to bits thinking it was me, my childhood issues (that he used against me for so long) my codependency (which actually wasn't that bad, the issue was I wasn't safe unless his attention was positive and on me so no wonder I became anxious and disingenuous when it wasn't, I was on eggshells).

This book needs to be free! I have only read the first half, I've done all the exercises, I finally have clarity. I am tempted to link all of my threads where I got given such good advice just to point out that it doesn't sink in. The fog they create really distorts your thoughts so much. I thought I was seriously unwell and I wasn't. The gas lighting and how he speaks to me was so so insidious.

Also you can read it for free if you download scribd and sign up for a free trial. I finally feel free and clear and my divorce will be put in on April the 6th!

Thank you for this. I am in a similar position and completely understand what you mean when you talk about the ‘fog’!
Will be downloading it this evening x

Well done @DragonOverTheMoon, it is a far from easy decision I know, having recently had to make it myself.

Lundy's other book Why does he Do that, is also very helpful, as is the Freedom Programme online...it was a shock, but also strangely reassuring, to see my STBXH on the pages of both, it cut straight through the fog and showed me that yes, he is abusive, and no, it wasn't/isn't me. I have wavered back and forward over recent months not sure what to do, but I have copied the relevant pages to look back on when I am wondering whether I am doing the right thing.

Roll on April 6th

Thank you!

I have read the Why does he do that and my stb ex wasn't very clear. He had a trait here and a trait here and there. Now I can see more traits.

It's very hard leaving him, I didn't fall out of love. There were many good things, and we did have nice times and shared interests. We had fun. But his neurosis was hard work, his anxieties led to anger, his anger led to him verbally lashing out, then he'd twist it round and make it my fault. I doubted myself till I lost myself and still have self doubt even now. But I'm continuing to work through this book and the fog is lifting. It's so hard to leave someone who really emotionally wounds you and then cuddles you and makes you feel filled up again with love

It's so hard to leave someone who really emotionally wounds you and then cuddles you and makes you feel filled up again with love

I think it's the hardest thing I've ever done and some days I falter and nearly fall back in, but I am making myself take it a day at a time...if we got back together I imagine he would be all sweetness and light for a while and then we'd be right back to square one...and I can't put myself or the DC through that, it's been tough enough as it is without having to do it all again.

Keep going dear dragon, and one day we will both be free enough to know we have done the right thing

I really needed to read this thread today, thank you. I'll be downloading that book!

It's so hard to leave someone who really emotionally wounds you and then cuddles you and makes you feel filled up again with love

This really hit hard this is absolutely the hardest part about it.

his anxieties led to anger, his anger led to him verbally lashing out, then he'd twist it round and make it my fault. I doubted myself till I lost myself

This ^ I just...
I'll also be reading this book, thank you.

I read that book too, a few years ago now.

XH made me think I was going mad at times, he always made it my fault. Twisted and manipulated every situation. That book and a good counsellor freed me.

According to him I was the one who did this ....

It's so hard to leave someone who really emotionally wounds you and then cuddles you and makes you feel filled up again with love

I can see him repeating the story now with DC.

This book gave me the push I needed to end a nearly 10 year relationship that hadn't been right for ages - it was bad but not too bad. There was no cheating or abuse and he was essentially an ok guy i.e. I'd come home to him trying to rescue a tired bumble bee, he looked after his mum. But he never treated me with the same care or love.

I had nowhere else to go, was in my 30s going through IVF with him, we had pets I thought the world of, so I clung on longer than I should have done in an unhappy situation.

The book and a couple of other situations (i.e. the thought of spending lockdown in an affectionless relationship) gave me the push I needed. - walked away from my home, the frozen blastocysts I had been through hell and back to create, pets I loved but that he insisted on keeping.

It was absolutely the right move and I'm happier than ever, met someone else I'm in love with and am trying again for a baby, I own property, restarted my qualification which I'm now nearing the end of, and I'm closer than ever to my mum and dad who supported me through it.

@northerncrumpet same! It's so hard not to go back and feel loved again. I am determined not to, and to love myself instead. We will do it, there's more to life then this.

@MyDogLucy and @Tdcp you're welcome. It's a very nice book that won't make you feel you have to make any decision and gives you help on how to make changes to centre yourself and if you stay in your relationship to again, centre yourself a bit more.

@OutTheOtherSideAndBeyond luckily we don't have DC, but he has made me out to be an absolute monster towards him to everyone he knows. If you met him you would think he is the loveliest man in the world and that I'm the problem. He knows so many people as well. The way he shifts blame is almighty. I can see striaght through it now and no longer tie myself up in knots about that, but I am worried about what he says about me. It's embarrassing.

@TwoBulletsFiveZombies Yes mate! Congratulations. Love a success story!

I think sometimes it's a case of 'right book, right time'.

For me it was 'Feel the fear and do it anyway'.

After an 18 year relationship (the only relationship I have had) I have been living in fog for over a year after separating from my husband - I am now reading this book at the recommendation of the OP and I am already reading my life in the pages.

My husband walked out on me as he decided we wanted different things when I accused him of cheating (but hey, I’ve just been paranoid due to him cheating and messaging women in the past - why can’t I just let it go??!)

His walking out made me assess my whole relationship. Zero emotional support, no fun but he isn’t ‘bad’ and we have a nice life. He thinks that is enough, at times I do too. Having no other relationship to compare this too, I sometimes feel that I’m asking for too much (the book tells me I’m not getting the bare minimum) and I often think this is just ‘how relationships are’.

My husband wants me back and I need to find a way out of the fog.

Thank you OP for the recommendation.

@BloodyNora79 it's scary to see that the bare minimum isn't what we're getting. I'm really happy the book is helping you. We deserve more than the bare minimum let alone when we're getting below it.

Mine was 'Men who hate women and the women that love them' by Dr. Susan Forward

I was in the most abusive relationship and when the book arrived I realised that it described him on almost every page. That was the beginning of me actually seeing him. He became aware I was wising up and at first he backed off but when I kept on withdrawing, he escalated tenfold. He knew I was slipping away and I was. Had I not left him when I did I knew he would kill me. He had already strangled me to the point of unconsciousness.

To the outside world he was wonderfully interesting, intelligent, educated and generous. In fact he was a monster.

@DragonOverTheMoon did your partner do the exercises that the book refers to ?

No. We split up at the start of December. Until today he's been very persistent in wanting us back together. I sent him the links to the exercises (if you google lundy Bancroft and go on his website they are there) and he turned round and said that I am the abuser and he the victim. Apparently although I said nice words and encouraged him to see his friends ect my body language said differently . Today he gave me an ultimatum that until I address how miserable I made him and accept that his threats to leave me, name callings, shouting, mocking, shouting over and over, flicking me - the list goes on then he isn't going to speak to me again. Apparently I'm a hyper sensitive wife and if I did any research on it I would find the hundreds of women online who regret being so sensitive. I declined to research this. He then rang me this afternoon and said - this is your last chance, admit that you were out of order to pack my stuff and kick me out and we'll go to counselling..

I declined. I begged him for almost a year to get help. We finally got to counselling and in the second session the counsellor had to stop him shouting at me and got to close to the bone for him. He didn't want to spend the money then but now if I admit I was wrong he will arrange counselling.. I'm alright thanks.

That isn't to say I am perfect but nothing I did deserved what he did to me. And the reason why I am sensitive is because he has hurt me (emotionally) so many times and has never repaired it.

My friends got rid of him for me, but I've been stuck in a fog and have got back with him for a few days here and there but he didn't move back in or come round my house. He has made me feel like I'm mentally ill and I've been abusing him even though I have the recordings, even though I spoke to the DV helpline and told them of the things he says I do and they said he was abusing me, he has Clares law things on him, his own mum told me of times he scared her (she's backtracked on that now) and there's more - but yet I still found ways to blame myself. I genuinely felt that he didn't mean to be the man he was when he was anxious and then angry. When he was lovely to me he was really lovely. I felt filled up. I now realise I need to fill myself up.

But I've read and read over these last few months and I see the manipulating and the table turning and I deserve not to be shouted at. I've never been treated so terribly. But yet there is still a part of me that thinks if he could just stop with the defensive shit and see me as an equal then we'd be so happy. But actually that wouldn't happen and I've now accepted it. That book sorted out in my head who was the abuser. That I wasn't asking for too much. This man got in my head so much, I had so much confusion.

I made a promise to myself after his phonecall. I am not wasting time on him anymore. I'm not crying. I'm not talking about him to my friends everyday. I'm moving on and I'm making my own life. I desperately didn't want to get divorced and thought he would just see how he was treating me and stop, but he can't do that. I'm not sitting in this energy anymore. I'm putting in for the divorce next week and making my life great.

Oh lovely dragon I can read the hurt in your words but you are doing the right thing, it is not you it is him. I am having similar struggles in my head (I have even wondered whether reading this stuff on MN has made me imagine it), it is so hard to break through the fog but we will get there. Hope today is a better day for you

Thank you! I also had the MN put this in my head thoughts

I woke up to a text saying - are you prepared to go to marriage counselling.... Mate GTF on. Not doing it, I asked for that for almost a year and then when we got there after two sessions you said it wasnt a priority anymore.

I could block him but I've got things to sort out with him until April 6th. I will be blocking him then!

Well done for getting out Dragon. I've started reading this book.

I hope I can find the strength to leave my partner. He has drug addictions which exacerbate his anger and it's impossible to have a rational discussion with him because he is very paranoid. He believes I'm manipulative and disingenuous.

The book is helping me to realise that it's extremely unlikely he will change. He truly believes that I'm to blame, that I've brought the abuse on myself no matter how many times I say that there is no excuse and that he has made the choice to act like this.

Thanks @lovelyfruit I feel so much better.

I don't know whether they're just so self important and can't see it or they see it or they see it and get pleasure. But I no longer give AF about it. Last few days I rarely think about him. I'm almost over it

I'm so glad the book has helped you. My ex is an ex addict and I've realised he's a dry drunk (although alcohol wasn't his drug). It's tough being with them. I really do hope you get out. You deserve such a lovely life

@lovelyfruit

Well done for getting out Dragon. I've started reading this book.

I hope I can find the strength to leave my partner. He has drug addictions which exacerbate his anger and it's impossible to have a rational discussion with him because he is very paranoid. He believes I'm manipulative and disingenuous.

The book is helping me to realise that it's extremely unlikely he will change. He truly believes that I'm to blame, that I've brought the abuse on myself no matter how many times I say that there is no excuse and that he has made the choice to act like this.

Do you have children living with you?

Thank you so much @DragonOverTheMoon and @youvegottenminuteslynn. Yes, we do have a child. He's not abusive at all towards our child but I know the environment is a toxic one and not good.

@lovelyfruit

Thank you so much *@DragonOverTheMoon and @youvegottenminuteslynn*. Yes, we do have a child. He's not abusive at all towards our child but I know the environment is a toxic one and not good.

Unfortunately while you may think that they aren't in danger, the reality is that they do live in an abusive home with a paranoid drug addict. This is such a deeply harmful environment and I really hope you can leave ASAP for your sake and also theirs