Dont know where to start but need to get it off my chest!

[timetochange]

Sorry in advance for this long post.

Ok, not sure how to put all this in any relevent order so will just let it all out.

DH and I been together almost 20 yrs, plent of ups and downs like many couples but plodded on through them. tbh I don't feel that any of our problems or issues have ever been sorted out we've just got on with things for the sake of the DC's. There was a lot of mistrust in our relationship in the early years, mainly from my side due to bad previous relationships, upbringing etc but I learned to trust him implicitly eventually.

Many years passed with the general rows, money, kids, work etc etc and on a few occassions I felt I'd had enough but never did anything about it and we where ok again. The relationship has been a bit of a rollercoaster ride but I guess most relationships are.

Everything went a bit tits up about 3 yrs ago when I discovered DH had got a little too friendly with a female friend of ours, apparently no sexual contact just secret conversations, txts & meeting for coffee. It ripped my world apart as I never imagined in my wildest dreams he was capable of doing something like that to me. Its taken me a long time to get over it, over it in so much as I no longer break down at the drop of an hat, reach for the bottle to drown my sorrows or feel the need to hurt someone anymore. I dont feel I'll ever trust him again but I never feel the need to check up on him, I'm now of the opinion that if its going to happen theres little to nothing I can do about it. We did go to relate at the time but it really didn't help so much with the relationship as he wouldn't talk about it but at least it gave me the chance to open up and say what I was feeling without being to to shut up and leave it. He says he cant talk about it because hes embarrased and ashamed but he's never been a talker in relationship situations but he can talk till the cows come home to friends or aquaintences.

I think i'm past the point in needing to talk about it now and tbh although for a long time I felt the need for answers and explanations I realised that I might never know the truth and he could say whatever he thought I wanted to hear which would be totally pointless in getting to the bottom of it.

I think my real problem now is that I don't know if I love him anymore or 'in love with him', of course I care for him, we've been together for a very long time and he's the father of my DC's. We get along most of the time now and rarely argue but he's more like a friend or housemate than a DH. I don't really fancy him anymore or want any physical contact with him and as I said I don't trust him anymore. I'm sure you can guess from the time we've been married I'm in my 40's and I honestly don't want to just stay together for the sake of it. I'm happy-ish but not sure what it is I'm happy about or with.

Many friends and family thought we would never last when we got together and I was damned if I was going to prove them right so feel I've put up with a lot more than I would of done in any other relationship but I'm of the age where I don't feel the need to prove anything to anyone anymore. Splitting up would be very difficult in so far as we run a joint business but we are tied into a contract with the business owner and If either one or both of us wanted to leave we need to give 12 months notice, my other problem is that the property we live in comes with the business so I wouldn't have anywhere to live if I left and took the DC's.

Tbh I could ramble on here forever going on about his shortcomings and faults but none of us are perfect and I've managed to grit my teeth and put up with them for so long now that I realise thats who he is, I now a lot of people wouldn't put up with them but for whatever reason, I have.

I no theres not one answer fits all but would really appreciate some unbiased advice or imput from anyone, it always looks different when your on the outside looking in and I just cant seem to see where to go from here

Thanks for taking the time to read x

Oh you poor thing.

This does sound like the legacy of his affair - most of us would find it extremely hard to trust or respect a partner who had done something like that.

You also sound quite depressed.

I am not sure what to advise but wanted to answer xx

Thank you for taking the time to reply

I've been taking anti-depressants for some time now and on the whole they do help me to cope better but there are still the very black bleak days that I struggle with. I went to see a councellor myself a yr or so ago to try to get some perspective in my life, it was good to talk but tbh the more I saw her the more I felt I needed/wanted to end my marriage.

I sleep on the sofa most nights now and prefer it that way. When I did go to bed he would occassionally try to cuddle me but it was because he was feeling like sex which just peed me off.

I've been desperatly trying to think of good reasons to stay together and I honestly can't think of any, he doesn't have many good points although he's not horrific to be with. He's not a terribly good dad he has very little patience but he's not a bad dad where he's shouting all the time at them, he doesn't really get the teenage girl thing and can't cope with periods/mood swings/hormones etc. Maybe I'm just trying to live a dream that doesn't exist where he wants to take them out, talk to them or play games but he's not like that and never as been.

I've tried so many times to talk to him and tell him how I feel and let him know my needs and he either blanks me, tells me he'll change, lifes not a bowl of cherries or at worst to give over talking rubbish

The talking rubbish bit really drives me insane, I just feel like he's totally ignoring whats going on. Years ago I would have argued my point, now I just don't have the will or the energy to do so and for the most part will now just keep my mouth shut and except the way things are as 'normal' for us, talking to him is just like talking to the wall because even when he says he will change and things will be different, he never has and they never do.

Don't get me wrong, he's not a nasty evil person, he's possesive of me and checks up on what I'm doing or who I've spoken to etc, he takes DC to and from school and makes the evening meal but thats it, he's a very lazy person and makes all kinds of promises to do things that never get done or are started and never finished, the way he is drives me mad but I know he wont change.

He says he's happy but I really can't see how he can be, he says he'd like things to get better and for there to be intimacy (sex) in the relationship and reckons i'll be fine in time I just don't know what fine is anymore

He really sounds like he is taking you for granted - refusing to acknowledge your feelings, your words, your right to be upset after what he did. He also sounds blinkered and unwilling to self analyse or try to change anything abut himself or the situation.

He says he is happy, but you are clearly really unhappy, and I personally think you might find you were happier if you broke the tie to him and found youself a chink of sunlight in your life - otherwise you will be unhappy for a very long time and what kind of life is that.

I know it is a big thing to consider especially with the upheaval it would involve. But I have a feeling your girls will wholeheartedly support you if you decide to take your life into your own hands and do something to get free and happy again.

You can't make him change, so you need to change the situation and remove yourself from someone who is hurting/disregarding you and your importance as a human being, let alone his wife.

I remember the turning point for me when I left my ex (I was pregnant) was when it suddenly occurred to me that whatever the legal and physical and financial ties, or problems, the fact was that nobody could ever fore me to like the man, or have him in my home, or god forbid, in my bed. I was free in that sense, and it was the most wonderful feeling in the world, that I was actually free to have a life more or less without him in it.

Good luck pet xx

you know what comes through from your post?

That he really doesn't care about your feelings at all.

He should have made amends for his inappropriate 'friendship' but instead he turns round and makes you stop going on about it. He shuts you down each time you try to address any of the issues you have. It's like he thinks if he can just prevent you from voicing your complaints/concerns/unhappiness, it makes your pov not real, so he can pretend nothing's wrong and things will stay just how they are.

It's not fair, not fair at all.

Have you written down exactly how you feel and why you feel that way?

Sometimes it's easier for men to hear what you are saying if you write it down clearly in bullet points! When you speak, you get emotional (naturally) and it is easy for them to dismiss you as hormonal/hysterical/whatever.

A clear letter is harder to dismiss out of hand. Plus they can go over and over it.

But if, despite your best efforts, he won't talk and nothing changes, should you stay? I don't know. Only you can answer that. What I would say is don't let the practicalities - where to live, how to do X,Y,Z - be the reason you stay in a place you are miserable.

You have choices.

Now, they're not easy choices. Wouldn't life be great if our decisions were between

A - really great thing with lots of benefits
or
B - really shitty thing with lots of pain

hmmmmm - which to choose, which to choose....erm er...

But, as you know, it's quite often a choice between shitty choice A and shitty choice B, with, if you're lucky, shitty choice C.

But you are not trapped. There is a difference between being trapped and it being difficult to get out. You can make any choice you want.

Could you try Relate together? Do you want to? Where do you want to be in five years time? When you are good together, is it all worth it?

My relationship finished this summer after 12 years and the real issue was communication. We didn't - he wouldn't; I tried the ultimatum of help or it's over. He disappeared into himself for six whole weeks and then, promised me the earth - it was too late; I no longer believed him. It is lonely and hard, at times, on my own but marginally better than being in a bad relationship.

FA's right - my watershed moment was thinking, "This should have been ....." and then, I simply knew it was never going to change, never going to be what I wanted, never going to be good for my boys, either. It was a very hard time. So, if you need anyone to listen .....

if what you are asking is is it possible to split up after 20 odd years yes it is..

especially if you can't face the idea of being with that man for the next 20

there are other possibilities

needs work and effort but so does staying on a relationship that drags you down

and their are always obstacles practical and financial but they can e overcome

It sounds to me like you've stopped caring much whether it works out or not. I have found myself thinking that before, and perhaps it makes it hurt a little less if you don't care so much.

I think if someone were to leave it should be him anyway as it means less upheaval for the children. Also is there no way it could be amicable enough that you can stay in business together, at least until your contract runs oout, giving you enough time to sort out what you will do next. I mean you would need to stay amicale for the children anyway, right? (in an ideal world)

do you think an ultimatum would make a difference?

Timetochange I am at the same stage in my relationship, but thankfully it has 'only' been 7 years not 20. We were very much in love when we got together, and had been froiends for 5 years before that so thought we were about as compatible as you can be, but over the years his insecurities have coem to dominate our relatiobnshop (though of course I am not perfect either) and the love comptletely died for me over the past year, though it has taken us a trial reconcilliation to realise this.

I feel quite positive, as I think I know he doesn't love me either, we care for each other, but he is more determined to make it work at any cost where as i think it would be more healthy to seperate and be friends as we would just end up resenting eachother so much if we stayed with eachother for the sake of DS - and I think DS deserves better too.

I suppose what I am trying to say is maybe you could just call it quits. It sounds as if he maybe feels the same way as you but is too ashamed to admit it. If you can split now though, with this realisation that one is not deserting the other, then you could remain very good friends.

It is desperately sad, especialy after so long, but you will always still be part of one anothers lives, you will just have the chance to be yourself or maybe even disciover yourself after so long bottling things up?

"He says he's happy but I really can't see how he can be, he says he'd like things to get better and for there to be intimacy (sex) in the relationship and reckons i'll be fine in time.."

Oh god this is what DP says, and even though we have been intimate recebntly a few times it has just mad eme realsie I would rather be doing this with someone I love, as it's bloody great even without it!

It sounds to me like you never got the answers you needed about his infidelity. If he can't give them to you how can you move on? To be honest it sounds like he hasn't told you the whole truth and this is the reason he won't talk about it, this is why he is so embarrassed and ashamed. He should be more embarrassed and ashamed of his lack of ability to help his wife overcome a situtaion of his creation.

I would say an ultimatum would be in order before you start moving out. Something along the lines of unless he tells you everything that happened and starts supporting you that you will never be able to get over it properly and therefore your relationship is dooomed.

Thing is I don't think that would do you much good, as you already know that you don't love him. The answers will come anyweay in time I think.

I resisted splitting last year becasue I wasn;t sure if there was a little bit of me that was still in love with him, in a romantic sense, now I know that there isn't. I think you know this too, so what good would an ultimatum do; you don;t want to be with him anymore.

Maybe the whole truth he hasn't told you is that he isn;t in love with you anymore - this will give you the chance to have the upper hand, in a good sort of way, not a malicious way, in that you can take control of your own life and not have to wait for his say so before you do it. It really would be a new positive beginning.

Thank you so much to everyone for your replies, I really am moved that you took the time x

Sorry for not responding sooner but unfortuntely I couldn't get the time or privacy to reply until now.

Flllightattendent - you're right, he does take me for granted but he always has to some extent, having said that I guess I took for granted that he would never hurt me in the way he did and I was wrong to do so. I think the problem is that we've had so many times where I've said enough is enough and things have to change - or else! and theres never been an 'or else' so for every action theres been a re-action but no real consequences and I feel because of this he feels there never will be.

Hecate - again like Flllightattendant you are both correct in seeing that he refuses to see my feelings, he completely shuts down if the slightest mention of it or how it made me feel comes up. He totally feels that it is so long ago now and there should be no mention of it or anything to do with it should be brought up. I think he does feel himself that he made amends for it at the time by becoming more loving and affectionate and allowing me to cry and let my pain out but that seemed to pass within a short space of time as he got back to 'normal' he just seems to be so easily pleased and if we're not arguing and I'm not upset and crying about it anymore then lifes good again and all's well.

I have written alot of it down in a diary but as far as I know he hasn't seen it, it's not hidden it's just on a shelf in the wardrobe. He is nosy and would think nothing of reading the DC's txt messages, diaries or anything else he found lying about so I know if he'd seen my diary he would definately have read it. I don't know if like you say, writting it all down in a proper fashion for him to read would work or if he'd just dismiss that also as me being unreasonable?

1066andallthat - you make a very good point, in 5 yrs time I want to be happy, thats all I've ever wanted, whether that is with my DH or not I'm not sure. My immediate reaction to your question "When you are good together, is it all worth it?" was Yes, it is worth it, unfortunately it's rare that we are good together these days and thats what I crave. I honestly thought through the good and the bad times that we'd always be together even when he drove me insane with something and I felt like throttling him or wanting to walk out and thats what hurts so much. The fact that so many yrs have gone into this relationship and its turned rotten makes me feel so sad.

BandofMothers - you are quite right, I think I have given up caring now or at least showing I do, I'm sad inside but I refuse to let him see that now. I've put a wall of defense up like I had when we were first together to shield me from the pain and tell myself that I would be better of without him in my life. I don't know if thats true or whether I would still be angry and hurt that he caused the end of our marriage but I just feel that if I wasn't with him I would be able to release a lot of this pain and torment that I'm putting myself through.

It would be better if he left but I know he never ever would. Seeing out the 12 months contact would cause serious difficulties but it's something I really would need to look at and see if it would be possible.

warthog - I very much doubt an ultimatum would work as there have already been so many times I've said things need to change or theres no hope for us and I'm still here though nothings changed. It's like the child at xmas scenario - santa wont come if your not good - but santa still comes!

Monkeytrousers - my DH does want to make it work or so he says over and over again and I know in my heart he loves me dearly he's just not very good at showing it and he doesn't have the tools to make it work. I'm certain he knows his own faults and shortcomings and will repeatedly tell me he will change things and do more but he just doesn't and I think it's because he doesn't know how to rather than not caring enough to do so.

I know it sounds like I'm sticking up for him but I'm not really, I've just learned that people are the way they are whether you like it or not and although I have coped and put up with it for yrs don't feel like I can or want to anymore.

He was the one who insisted we go to relate at the time because he knew it was the ultimate betrayal and end of the road as far as i was concerned and from that day I found out all the fight in me to make it work left.

CountessDracula - I have no idea if I have all the truth about the what/how/why of it all but I'm certain now that if I don't know, I never will. He tells me he has told me everything but none of it made any sense and just didn't seem to ring true and there where many contradictions and back peddling.

Maybe I'm just going through a midlife crisis wanting to change and be different, reaching for that unreachable dream, I dont know, I just know that things can't stay the way they are. I don't want anyone else, theres no one on the horizon but I do have a real longing to be happy, loved and appreciated, maybe I need to start looking at myself rather than blaming others for the way I'm feeling

Oh poppet. I am for you.
Of course you want to be happy and from what you say, you lost much of that happiness the day you found out he had hurt you, and that has not gone away. It is stopping you being happy.
In a sense you are right that you will have to sort out your own feelings, nobody else can make you happy while you feel so wretched yourself, and that might require some time alone to explore it properly and come to terms - whether you decide to stay with him or not.

He can't help you now by the sound of it. Perhaps a little bit of counselling alone might help you find your feelings, and sort out what you want to do? I know a lot of surgeries offer it free for six weeks, our GP practice does. It might be worth asking your GP.

I have to go in a minute but please don't feel like you're being selfish or making a big fuss over nothing. It is about time you were listened to outside of the relationship, and helped to work out who you are again. Happy to listen xx

FA's right - my best friend saw someone too through her GP and it really helped.

Here's a positive spin for you - you are already doing something about your future: by working through the past, looking at your relationship, good and bad, you will figure out what is right for you.

i think it's clear he's not going to change. he is who he is. what you have to decide is whether that's good enough for you for the rest of your life. the rest of your life is a very long time.

i do though, think he should tell you about his affair in as much detail as you want. he doesn't get to say that it's in the past. it's not. he broke trust.

In this kind of situation it's easy to focus on the flirtation/affair and blame that as the root of your troubles, but imho that was at most a symptom of the state of your marriage - he was bored, a bit dissatisfied, got entangled in a delicious flirtation which gave him some fun and happiness. In a long relationship like yours it was almost inevitable that at some stage or another one of you would find someone else tempting. He didn't 'DO' it TO you - he flirted with someone for the pleasure it gave HIM. So put it aside for now, don't let it muddle your thinking on your marriage.

If you were going to make your marriage happy, what would have to happen? what or who would have to change, and in what ways? Do you think those changes are acheiveable? If so, then what are you going to have to do/make happen to achieve them? and will he play along?

If not, then you have a stark choice - stay with the marriage you have, or face the upheaval and distress of breaking it up. Shitty choice A or shitty choice B.

The risk of taking Shitty Choice A and sticking with the marriage as it is is that one of you - and it could easily be you - will meet someone lovely and have a proper affair.

I made this mistake. It is the worst option available and I strongly advise against it.

In my case, the things needed to 'fix' my marriage were unachievable, so I stuck my head in the sand and took Shitty Choice A. I ended up having to to Shitty Choice B too. I should have had the guts to do Choice B years earlier - it would have been painful in the short term but would have saved an awful lot of heartbreak, and of course I have had to go through it anyway now.

Thinking of you

Thank you again for your words of wisdom

I will definately look into seeing a counsellor again, I'm a bit stuck with that one at the moment as their is only one available at my surgery and as I've already seen her a while ago I'm not sure I could or would want to see her again but I'll check out if there are any alternatives.

missingtheaction - you have put the nail right on the head there, I am focusing on that, probably too much tbh, there are alot of unresolved and ongoing problems in our life and it just seems easier to blame it on that particular event than to bring everything up.

To make the marriage work he would need to change his ways and be more understanding and supportive. I've changed so much about myself that was bringing me and the relationship down, I used to shout and get really quite angry about things now I'm much more calmer and very rarely do I lose my temper, I just let things go now. I know that letting it wind me up or at least showing it that it serves no purpose and makes no difference.

Well, just to update you on this evenings events - we managed to have a talk, well, when I say we, I mean I did most of the talking but he did seem to listen. He actually did a couple of jobs around the house tonight which surprised and pleased me and spoke to me in a more thoughtful manner. I just hope it would last but I have this dreadful feeling that it wont and tbh I didn't know how to react to it all. I thought if I say thanks, will he think I'm taking the piss or being sarcastic, then I thought, It's usually me that does everything and do I get any thanks for it? so it all felt a bit strange. Maybe we've just grown apart and outlived the relationship and by me focusing on the awful most hurtful thing he did I have something to cling to, to blame if that makes sense.

I really don't know, tbh my heads up my arse right now