Armchair psychologists....good social skills or oddly calculated?

[Armchairpsychologist1]

I have a couple of friends now describe this, one I have dated in the past. They have talked about working out how to flatter people in early days of friendships/relationships to win them over. One described how good he is at working out how to flatter someone/what their "thing" is and I can see very clearly how he employed this tactic (successfully!) with me.

I know it's a good social skill to ask people about themselves, take an interest. But this sort of flattery feels a bit fake.

Flattery IS fake. A genuine compliment isn't.

Its that NLP thing, I can always spot it a mile away. I hate people being nice that I dont know. The sort of love bombing type (not quite but you get what I mean)

It makes me highly suspicious of people and likely to not gel with them or get on with them, I keep my distance.

It's also one of the methods used in the book how to win friend's and influence people, by Dale Carnegie

So it's an actual technique. I haven't been great at spotting it before but I can't tell in hindsight it was at play. What an inauthentic way to relate to people - not a good way to win friends surely.

That I have fallen for it highlights my vanity/need to be flattered!

@Armchairpsychologist1

So it's an actual technique. I haven't been great at spotting it before but I can't tell in hindsight it was at play. What an inauthentic way to relate to people - not a good way to win friends surely.

That I have fallen for it highlights my vanity/need to be flattered!

The Dale Carnegie book is not necessary aimed at being manipulative, it's more how to get to know a person but based on the idea that people usually liken to talk about themselves more than they do listening to another person talking, it's ment in a helpful way at least that's my interpretation of the meaning.

I haven't actually read it but allowing people to talk about themselves because you want to get to know them (like to hear about people/other's experiences/views etc) seems different than making them feel good about themselves so they in turn like you.

It's just sales talk dressed up in a social context.

Imagine them in a shiny suit trying to get somebody to buy a timeshare in Ukraine because 'the value is bound to go up in the future' and you've got a rough idea of how morally bankrupt they are using the same techniques to get somebody into bed.

That's how it feels @NeverDropYourMooncup!

I've mostly found that people like the persona I put on more than the real me. I only wish I was better at sustaining the act and it took less from me. People say they want to know the authentic person underneath, but really I'm not so sure. Underneath I'm a very angry, hurt, damaged person and these days it only seems acceptable to share that part of myself in therapy. Otherwise people generally don't want a sharing of souls, they want somebody to pass some time with, to listen to their gripes, to make them feel better about themselves or make them laugh. Not everyone finds those social interactions easy, especially if ND. I have a bad memory so sometimes take notes on social interactions so you'd hate me! It might sound clinical or inauthentic, but I would rather note down somebodies kids name or their favourite band or whatever than ask them a hundred times.

I'm definitely a better sales person than friend though, but does that mean I shouldn't have friends just because I try and respond to my friends needs and try and work out how to make them happy? I do it with my kids too, like I will clock that one DC feels loved when they have things done for them eg. Bath run, hot chocolate made for them, crusts cut off sandwiches, etc. Whereas another DC will eat cereal from the box with their hands and use the garden hose as a shower, but won't feel loved unless they are truly listened to in a conversation. Surely that's a sign of how much you value someone that you will go out of your way to do what makes them feel happy and comfortable in your company? Idk. I get that it sounds clinical in a way. But when I have been lonely in my life I have found that sometimes I just needed an 'in' and once I was friends with somebody then it's easier to be more authentic

I guess it's all about intention. Are they selling snake oil (a toxic friendship) or are they trying to establish an initial connection in order to create a lasting healthy mutually beneficial friendship?

It's the same with love bombing. If somebody showers a new romantic partner with gifts and compliments to trick then into an abusive relationship, its love bombing. If somebody showers a new romantic partner with gifts and compliments because they love them deeply and want to express this to them, then it's romantic.

Intention is everything

The Dale Carnegie book is actually really good and simple. It changed the way I worked with people for the better. It’s not about manipulation as such, but it does acknowledge that we generally want something out of a conversation- be it a new contact, work, etc. and it suggests finding the win-win - what works for me and you so that we both get a benefit. He actually says that people can see through fakery, so it’s about being genuine, and finding the positivity and the link or connection. It’s a very easy read, and though it’s dated and a bit cheesy, it’s worth a read.

@Relentlessrose unless you are doing it to get me to have sex with you I probably wouldn't hate you!
Seriously though, good to hear a different view.

One of the people was a new work colleague i thought must really like me so it was a weird feeling to see him do it with others. I dont judge him harshly though, I can see he is trying to make friends. But it does feel nice to see little glimpses of the real him, vaguely grumpy and witty!

It can feel very vulnerable to be yourself if you feel unlikeable. I've been there and personally it feels good to care less. I'm sure I'm pretty annoying at times but hopefully not all the time! People might be fine if you are yourself?

Intention is everything yes I think that's a good point

I have had some friends who were clumsy socially, and I actually quite liked seeing them try and improve their social skills. Eg. One friend who was always talking about themselves, started paying me (and others!) lots of compliments and also buying little token gifts and little note cards. It was there way of trying to balance out their self focus. I think we all are trying to find ways to fill in our gaps socially. To me it was a revelation that I could take notes. I don't have a spreadsheet or anything, but when somebody is talking I will think of questions to ask them later. If I don't ask the questions, I will write them down and next time we speak I will ask them. I will write down other things I want to remember, like that they are moving house or that their boyfriend is being a bit shady. Things to remember. This is something I have done at college and university and in the work place, and realising I could utilise it in my social life has made me seem like a care a lot more than before. I always cared I just have a shoddy memory! I'm just finding a way to fill the deficit. A lot of people struggle with making an initial impression and connection, in which case having some 'tools' in your tool box to help with this can be really important.

@SarahBellam that sounds like it could be useful for work. I might check it out.

@Relentlessrose interesting to read again. Although I personally might find it a little intense if friends made that much effort with me (your friend with the gifts and cards etc). I don't mind if friends/colleagues forget things, I know everyone has a lot going on and I'm just one little part of their lives. But we are all different. Again though I would assume the authenticity/intention comes across, like you say, you genuinely care.

@Relentlessrose

I guess it's all about intention. Are they selling snake oil (a toxic friendship) or are they trying to establish an initial connection in order to create a lasting healthy mutually beneficial friendship?

It's the same with love bombing. If somebody showers a new romantic partner with gifts and compliments to trick then into an abusive relationship, its love bombing. If somebody showers a new romantic partner with gifts and compliments because they love them deeply and want to express this to them, then it's romantic.

Intention is everything

This is SPOT on !!!!!

@Relentlessrose

I have had some friends who were clumsy socially, and I actually quite liked seeing them try and improve their social skills. Eg. One friend who was always talking about themselves, started paying me (and others!) lots of compliments and also buying little token gifts and little note cards. It was there way of trying to balance out their self focus. I think we all are trying to find ways to fill in our gaps socially. To me it was a revelation that I could take notes. I don't have a spreadsheet or anything, but when somebody is talking I will think of questions to ask them later. If I don't ask the questions, I will write them down and next time we speak I will ask them. I will write down other things I want to remember, like that they are moving house or that their boyfriend is being a bit shady. Things to remember. This is something I have done at college and university and in the work place, and realising I could utilise it in my social life has made me seem like a care a lot more than before. I always cared I just have a shoddy memory! I'm just finding a way to fill the deficit. A lot of people struggle with making an initial impression and connection, in which case having some 'tools' in your tool box to help with this can be really important.

Similar with me and my research journal, certainly helps my mind