Shall I give up on my mum?

[Tired789]

I have always had a turbulent relationship with my mum. We had horrendous rows when I was a teenager and I left home at 15. I look back and wish I’d left sooner.
I’m now almost 40 and for the last 20 years or so I have really made an effort to maintain a relationship with my mum although it isn't easy as she is very hard to like. Her and my dad divorced when I was 12 and she soon remarried. When she met her husband, he was a very sociable and popular person. My mum spat venom at each of his friends until he had none left. He also has 3 children who my mum insulted until they also no longer speak to him. They live in a small cul-de-sac and have had blazing rows with every single other household on the street, so now all of her neighbours despise her. They are a very isolated couple and have no friends or family left as mum is so vile to everyone she meets. Her husband is very friendly and tries to make friends but my mum will literally tell people to fuck off. I feel bad that he doesn't see his children anymore because of mum. She makes up crazy scenarios in her head that people are laughing at her, or copying her, or made a rude gesture at her etc. She will speak things like insult the neighbour's gardens and make outrageously rude comments. The police kicked her out of Neighbourhood Watch because she was using it to send insulting emails to her neighbours. Despite this I regularly visit her. My sister, who lives closer, sees her several times a week for dog walks, cups of tea etc.

A few weeks ago I had a few people round for drinks at my house and I invited my Dad and stepmum as they have just moved back to the UK after several years abroad and we hadn't seen them in literally years. I didn't invite my my mum because my dad feels very uncomfortable being around her and my husband is also not her greatest fan. I didn't tell my mum about it because I didn't think she'd need to know but unfortunately she saw a photo on social media and realised she hadn't been invited. She sent my sister a message telling her she was cutting us out of her life and her will and then blocked both of us so we can't contact her.

Neither of us give a toss about her will but she uses her will like a game of musical chairs, people are moved in and out of it every few weeks. Over the years I have been moved in and out of her will numerous times for various things I have done to upset her. I have also been blocked by her more times than I can count. I have never blocked her once.

I noticed Instagram was the one channel she hadn't blocked me on, so I sent her a grovelling message apologising and explaining I invited dad because I hadn't seen him in years and that I was so sorry I had hurt her feelings. She replied that she was officially done with me and then randomly tells me how upset she was that she was cut out of my wedding video 5 years ago and that she didn't get a photo of me, her and my sister together that day. She wasn't cut out of the video, she just didn't feature in it that much because she didn't make a speech. As for the photo of us 3 together, no one got a photo of me and my sister together because to be honest I just didn't think about it. I didn't realise she had been harbouring resentment about it for 5 years. She sent my sister an awful message telling her she thinks her house is terrible, it resembles a shed and she's ruined it by pulling the carpet up. My sister recently bought her first home (with no financial contribution at all from my mum btw), it needs some work but mum has been nothing but insulting about it and it's made my sister feel terrible. My stepdad has messaged me to apologise on my mum's behalf, saying she has a “short fuse”, although my mum doesn't know he's messaged me, or she'd write him off too.

My sister and I decided to send her some flowers for mothers day together with a Fitbit because she's always wanted one. Because she told us she doesn't want anything to do with us we didn't feel we could go round there so we asked the florist to deliver the Fitbit with the flowers. My sister then receives a message saying “you got the florist to do your dirty work for you. You couldn't even show your face. I DONT EVEN LIKE FLOWERS. I AM ANGRY AND NOT IMPRESSED”. And that was it.

I feel bad for my mum because she had a terrible upbringing with awful parents. My sister and I thankfully havent turned out like her as we spent so much time with our paternal grandparents growing up, and I think they saved us. I also don't want her to be all alone. Her husband is a fair bit older than her and when he goes, she won't have anyone. I don't know what on earth I am supposed to do but everything I try is wrong. Shall I just give up?

You should have gone NC years and years ago. It's baffling that you haven't.

She sounds awful. I'm surprised you have kept up the efforts with her for as long as you have done. I would just leave her to herself.

I am gobsmacked that you and your sister re tolerating so much of this and are actually apologising to her!! I think you both need to walk away. It's your mums fault that she will be alone. I am baffled why you would want this awful person in your life. What positives do you get out of it.?

I cannot I believe how lovely you sound when your mother sounds like a total arsehole.

I think it will be hard for you at first but you will not regret cutting her out of your life. You must do this, she's clearly a deep unhappy person, as the adage 'hurt people hurt people'.

I cannot see her mellowing with age as my mother has, we didn't get on for years but we're good now. As awful as it sounds, she contributes nothing but negativity, hurt and damage to your life. It's high time you closed the door on her for good.

I would think of this like when a child screams and throws things around. Would you grovel apologising and bring them a variety of new toys to try and stop them? No, you’d ignore it so they learn bad behaviour gets no response. This needs the same. The response to someone treating you like shit isn’t apologising and sending them gifts. It’s explaining what they’ve done wrong then ignoring them/distancing unless they apologise and try to change their ways.

Give up with your mother; its no point trying to deal with someone this toxic and otherwise disordered of thinking. You would not tolerate this from a friend (or would you?) and your mother is no different.

Ask yourself why you at all chose to send her flowers and the like as well as apologising as well as wondering about she being alone after her H dies. This is most likely due to your FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) and those are three buttons she installed in both your sister and you. She does not have these concerns about you or your sister and she really does not deserve any of your consideration.

Many people also have abusive childhoods and choose not to inflict more pain on their children who are now adults unlike your mother who took the low road by choosing to repeat the same.

Do read "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward and consider too seeking out a BACP registered therapist re your mother. You need to find someone who does not have any familial bias about keeping families together.

I haven't cut my mother off but if she attempted any severance herself I would welcome it with open arms and certainly wouldn't be grovelling to get back in her good graces. And yours sounds far worse than mine. Mine also had a grim upbringing - but that's not an excuse to visit the same on your own children. Quite the reverse, surely?

Most definitely my sister and I have huge fear, obligation and guilt. And I just feel really sad for my mum. Her life has been lonely. It her been her own doing in her adult years but she just cannot see that. She is always the victim, everyone else always has it in for her, for no reason at all. She has never once been able to look at herself and her behaviour objectively. I can't tell her how her behaviour is wrong because she won't listen to it for a second. So I try to make it better by saying sorry even though I know I shouldn't be. Because she is incapable of understanding her part to play.
I also felt terribly guilty that she saw that photo of what must have looked like some super fun party where she wasn't invited but my dad was. That must have hurt her and I feel bad for that. It also doesn't help that I rarely invite her to mine because my husband can't stomach her, so we tend to go to theirs or meet in public where it is easier to make excuses and leave when we want. And I think she knows that. So, overall I just feel guilty, sad and sorry all of the time.

Please deal with your FOG by seeing a therapist; after all your so called mother installed those buttons in you and knows how to push them to her advantage.

All this FOG you have just plays into your mother's hands even more. Your mother will never also be the kind and helpful mother you perhaps still want her to be, you will never get her approval and feeling sorry for her won't be helpful to you either. Let any and all hope go that she will change and say sorry to either your sister or you. She has NO empathy or insight; if she is indeed a narcissist it is truly not possible to have a relationship at all. Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all and the men in their lives are either like them or are otherwise discarded (like your father was).

Do you think your mother feels at all sorry for you; well no not a bit of it. She has not changed since your own childhoods and she continues to remain abusive towards you both. She had a choice when it came to your sister and you and she chose to do similar as to what was done to her; her own abusive childhood is no excuse nor justification for what happened to you from childhood onwards.

Set yourself free and stop making any effort with her; its neither wanted nor appreciated.

The out of the FOG website may be helpful to you;-
outofthefog.website/

Your husband has got her figured out - you should trust his judgement more than your own.

Why are you trying to fix this? She sounds like an utter horror. If you didn’t share dna you would never want to spend time with her.

If you went to a really good psychotherapist who had family dyamic experiece they would get you out of this mess. Your mother sounds like a disordered, manipulitive bitch. She deserves no support just cutting cleanly out of your life. Do yourself a favour and find a good psychotherapist and remove yourself from her drama.

You're right. I have a very good counsellor that I saw a couple of years ago for a trauma, I will see her again about this.

This evening mum has been messaging my sister. I notice this time around she has only been contacting my sister and not me, even though it was me that threw the offensive party. She has been saying that she is upset we sent a florist when all she wanted this mother's day was "a hug and an apology". She blocked us and said she wanted us out of her life. Yet somehow we were expected to go round there and hug her?

My stepdad also messaged to say he thought the flowers were nice, but mum didn't think so and she has taken it out on him all day, so he has been hiding in the garden.

This is all so messed up. Neither of us are replying to any messages. I will seek counselling tomorrow and I will be going no contact. Will also read the book recommendations.Thanks for your support, I needed to know I wasn't going mad.

You have to go no contract on her, she is completely out of order and she gets away with what she does as you tolerate it and apologise, when you have nothing to apologise for

You’re not going mad at all. Sorry you’re going through this.

In counselling perhaps discuss why you keep feeling drawn to go back to her. It might be that you’re needing something (care, attention, support etc? All valid things to need) or maybe you’re wishing/hoping for something to be different each time you go back for more? If you can work out what that is, you might start to treat yourself better and look for what you need in more nurturing people or even from yourself rather than keeping repeating this pattern of trying to hold things together and her hurting you.

Your mum is a gaslighting narcissist. Don’t let her ruin anymore of your life. She will always play the ‘victim’

I have often wondered if mum is a narcissist. But aren't narcissists supposed to be charismatic and popular? My mum couldn't be further than that. Everyone she meets can't stand her. I would feel the same if she wasn't my mum.

Not always tired789. It covers a lot of behaviours, the ones it sounds like your mum has are arrogance, lack of empathy, an inflated sense of their own importance, trouble forming and maintaining relationships.

Some narcissistic people can definitely turn on charm when they want but I don’t think it’s necessary. I think the primary issue with narcissistic people is a world view focused entirely on themselves with little or no true understanding or care for other people/little ability to see other people’s points of view. So someone who constantly sees themselves as the victim or most important person in a situation while belittling or denying other people’s experiences. Or even an inability to see how other people might have felt in a situation.

At the end of the day I understand how you feel. I have to think of it like this - although you feel sad for your mum, can you really help her? Is this drama making her happier? I doubt it. If you didn’t want to go no contact (which I’d understand as it’s easier to say than do) I’d be saying ‘oh mum I can see you’re upset so I’ll leave you to it. Hope you enjoy your gift.’ And then I’d leave it. No apologising, no getting in touch, nothing. You’ve got her a lovely Mother’s Day gift, there’s nothing to apologise for.

Yes, it's definitely time to make peace with it and let her go. I have similarly walked away from a relationship with my mum (though she is much more passive aggressive rather than just downright aggressive than yours sounds). Mine also blocked me on on social media. She pops up every now and then to tell me what a terrible person I am for not allowing her a relationship with her grandchildren (I actually haven't, but she cut contact with me and blocked me and I don't even know where she lives anymore, she moved and didn't tell me her new address - so bit hard for them to have a relationship with her). And then if I tried to respond, she would block me and disappear again. I'm 40, too old to be playing childish games with another grown up. It's painful to not have the sort of family you imagined you would have when you grew up. But life is much more peaceful now.

Mum or not, this is terrible behaviour on her part! She just can't be reasonable and doesn't deserve you or your sister. She won't change and your life will further be made a misery by this insufferable person. I accept she had a bad upbringing but that really isn't an excuse at her age now. My mum was the same, I cut her off and have never looked back xx

As I read your OP I immediately thought your mother was a narcissist. She has zero empathy and likes to make others feel small. She plays the victim because it gets her attention whether good or bad. Her childhood trauma almost certainly caused it but it’s irreversible. She isn’t charming or popular because it’s easier to be critical of others and make herself the victim. She won’t change and you have nothing to gain from a relationship with her, actually the opposite she will have a negative impact on you forever. Cut off contact, forget about the will because no inheritance would be enough to compensate for the emotional drain that she is on you. I feel sorry for her husband. She might end up alone and she will hate it because she’s got nobody to fuel her narcissism. But she doesn’t care about anyone else. If anything I would consider trying to persuade her husband to leave, what a terrible way to spend your autumn years.

She's horrendous and doesn't deserve anybody in her life. However, if it's worth it, keep in her good books (with minimal effort on your part) just for the inheritance. That would be the ultimate "fuck you".

@MNetcurtains - a nice idea in theory. In practice they are entirely capable of pretending you will inherit if you toe the line and then spending it all or leaving it to the cats' home.