Not exactly gaslighting, but...

[Snoopdogsbitofposh]

DH and I have just had an argument. It doesn't happen often- we have a really good relationship- but now and again he reacts like this. It's not gaslighting, but something like it.

Let me explain tonight as an example:

We've recently bought a campervan. Something he's been keen on for a while and I've come round to. We're all excited to try it out. I've joined lots of FB groups and been equally as supportive/ getting involved in the planning. So far so good. He is really into old cars- we have a fair few which he tinkers with/ loves to drive and is very good at fixing/ being a weekend mechanic. We looked around lots of campers for weeks. We had a good budget (inheritance of mine) which I was willing to spemd all of. He found one which is excellent condition body wise but had a thermostat issue which he was sure he could sort easily. It was a lower price because of this. We had it delivered. All good.

The issue is that it's taking him a long time to sort this issue. The issue which was 'quick' has lasted 2 weeks of him out on the drive for hours at a time and then researching online for more hours. He also talks constantly about it and I have a limited attention span for the technical aspects.

I happened to have a brief moan that I wished we hadn't bought something with an issue as the planned Easter holiday break is looking less and less likely. It's annoying me. I then said perhaps we should have kept looking and bought something more expensive but issue free. He got angry. Not shouting and bawling angry, that quiet angry where he seethes. The crux of it is that his manhood is insulted. He kept saying 'So you're questioning my judgement, my skills?' Despite me saying 'No, not at all. It's a desire for everything to be easy.' he kept pushing the line ' What do you know about vehicles? You drive a new car and yet stand there casting aspersions on my abilities. I know a bloody lot more than you do.' I constantly said ' It's not to do with that. I didn't say that...' etc and he kept on that I was now 'Changing your tune/ trying to backtrack'..I DIDN'T say anything about his expertise or the decision he made but he insisted I had meant this by meaning about buying something that needed work.

What IS that? It's like an insult to manliness if anyone questions anything he does? He's very handy and can fix anything. He has a skilled trade as his job. Is it that his esteem is caught up in his doing things? My job is more mental, so perhaps I don't get it but I just cannot abide this accusation that I did insult him when I didn't.

Anyone else?Any insight?

He just doesn’t want to accept you’re right & you should’ve bought a vehicle without an issue!

How would he react if you said you were taking it to a garage to get fixed? If he’s been messing with it for two weeks it’s clearly not simple or quick to fix.

So does he often get irritable at having to admit he’s in the wrong?

LoudingVoice no, he's normally very good at holding his hands up. I'm not so good at admitting I'm wrong, actually, but I'm aware of it and will admit and apologise after the fact.

He's countered my annoyance with 'it would have cist £1500 to send to a garage, but I'm fixing it for free'. This sum wasn't mentioned before buying, just a vague recognition that it may need to go to a garage if he couldn't do it.

He's really digging his heels in. I've said I don't want to talk about it, as he's clearly still stung by my perceived insult. I hate being told what I'm thinking/ said when that's not the case!

But you were criticising his judgment and his skills. You admit you were having a moan because it looked as if it wouldn't be fixed by Easter and then wishing you'd bought something without an issue. Taking too long to repair it is a criticism of his skills and buying it in the first place questions his judgment. I can't see how it could be taken in any other way.
Sorry I can't agree with you, but it wasn't a v helpful thing to say, when he must be feeling pretty fed up himself.

I agree with PP that it probably was a criticism or, even if you didn’t intend it to be, it’s not surprising or unreasonable that he took it to be. There is nothing helpful in saying to somebody who is clearly trying their best to fix the issue that you wish you had never bought it, what did you hope to gain by doing that?

His reaction sounds OTT but maybe not if this is something you do a lot.

Well if it’s taking him two weeks and still not fixed then perhaps it needs to go to a garage.
However, I think you should apologise for the perceived criticism. Add that you thought a garage may have special equipment which makes the job quicker not that you thought he couldn’t do it.
He’s probably as frustrated as you and feels obliged to fix the thermostat now whether he can or not.

It’s a factual criticism though, he clearly can’t fix it as easily as he’d hoped!

I wouldn’t apologise, I’d expect my DH in the same situation would agree it had been a bit of a mistake and that it was annoying to have had to spend so long trying to fix it.

Is that a factual cost for the repair or is he just throwing figures around to save face?

You were criticising his skills and judgement so I can see why it would annoy him if you try to deny that. However it sounds like you were making a valid point to him. He used your money to buy a van that may not be fit for purpose in time for your proposed trip. You should be able to voice how you feel and at times disagree with him.

Perhaps he reacted strongly because he is enjoying the tinkering, researching and talking about it bit and isn't in a hurry to move onto the going away in it bit?

He's cross with himself for possibly making the wrong decision, worried that he may not be able to fix it himself after all and it may cost more than expected, and frustrated about spending a lot of time on this and not making much progress. Your comment hit a nerve.

Sounds like he's getting defensive because he's sensitive about it. I agree he doesn't sound like he's good at conflict resolution.

@GreyGoose1980

You were criticising his skills and judgement so I can see why it would annoy him if you try to deny that. However it sounds like you were making a valid point to him. He used your money to buy a van that may not be fit for purpose in time for your proposed trip. You should be able to voice how you feel and at times disagree with him.

Thanks everyone for your responses. I think you've summed up how I feel GreyGoose but I still don't think I was directly criticising his skills, perhaps his decision to buy the van, but not his skills, he knows how much I rate this skills.

I think I'm just tired of old cars and issues with them and the sheer amount of time that is spent on fixing, researching, talking about them and I'm really not that interested. With the camper I just wanted to spend a decent amount of money on a nice one that we could go away in straight away. I've been working really hard and really, really need a break this Easter. We could have spent a 3rd of the money and booked an amazing holiday abroad. I'm just frustrated.

Shamoo it's not a regular thing, I'm the eternal optimist, he's usually the more pessimistic of us.

You'd have been much more successful if you'd have said "this is a bigger problem than we first thought isn't it? Shall we book it into a garage so we can definitely still go away for Easter?" and he'd have probably responded with "ah nah it'll be fixed before the, don't worry" or "yeah it's a bit outside of what I'm capable of"

girlmom you're absolutely, completely right, that is what I should have said. But I have the feeling that it would still have resulted in an argument.

It's the fact that we have 3 other, old cars and I'm tired of the fixing/ researching/ talking about them. It's his thing, not mine. I just expressed that I wished we had spent more and bought something else. I'm at the stage of- let's fix it and sell it. Mainly because I can't be doing with any other repairs in the future and the hassle. I'm tired and getting older (50) and work hard with 3 DC.

You've touched a nerve because the thought has probably crossed his own mind when the "quick" fix is taking much longer than he anticipated!

I do completely get it - especially if you didn't even want the van in the first place and only got it because he wore you down!

Perhaps Tibetan

girlmom21 there is a big element of that. I actually, really want to spend my breaks somewhere beautiful abroad, but we have an SEN child and thought it maybe a solution to difficult holidays. I'm probably taking out my disappointments about holidays/ life on this van situation. Life is hard and I just want nice times to look forward to.

He's probably even more frustrated and irritated that it's taking so long to fix than you are. And he's the one crawling round underneath it in the cold/wet/dark while you sit inside watching tv or whatever.

So it's kind of understandable that the irritation from it has made him get a bit snappy at the implied criticism. Fair enough if you're sick of hearing him talk about it, and if you're fed up of being his listening shoulder just say "sorry, I don't understand the technicalities of what you're telling me, so there's really not much point telling me so much detail."

Look at it the other way - it's probably better that he spends time doing a thorough job of it now than have it break down on you while you're away in it. But keep it at the back of your mind that you might have bought a dog!

Does he often pretend that he can fix things up when the reality is that he likes the idea of himself as a mechanic but actually he's just fantasizing about his abilities?
It must be me, OP but I feel less sympathetic towards him than some other people on this thread. The reason is that both my exHs were like this. They both liked to pretend that they were super duper macho mechanic males: 'fix it no problem mate' and actually neither had a bloody clue. Now, their not being able to fix things never bothered me in the slightest in both cases, but it was the pretence of it all that got so very tiresome. The pretence, plus bodge jobs all over the house, half-finished fuck - ups that I was never allowed to comment on. Your comment about old broken cars everywhere alerted me that you might be married to a similar type.
You even had to pay for the bloody thing! You have my sympathy OP.

If I were him I'd have likely taken your comment as a dig as well, even if it's not intended that way.

It's not as if he's made no effort to try and resolve the issue with the thermostat, so I'd imagine, given what you've described, that he's probably enormously frustrated and disappointed that it's still an ongoing issue. I've been in a similar situation myself with something slightly different, and sometimes someone else making a comment is all that's required to tip that frustration over into demonstrable anger.

The comment can be totally innocent, or even intended to be complimentary or helpful, but if you are already at the end of your tether with something it impairs your ability to rationalise and contextualise what is being said. Unless you suggested prior to purchase that you thought buying this particular one wasn't a good idea, then coming away with a similar comment after he's spent hours and hours slaving away trying to resolve the issue is bound to be taken as having a dig.

I don't think it's about 'insulting his manliness', because it would have raised my hackles in the same way and I don't have a manliness to insult. It just comes across as ungratefulness, ingratitude, and I'd have been annoyed at the 'after the fact' sentiment if you hadn't also said something similar before the purchase. It's as if you are entirely blaming him for something that you were happy enough to go along with yourself. My ex did similar to me a couple of times, and in reality all I ever thought was "if you can't say something constructive or helpful, don't say anything at all'.

'sorry, I don't understand the technicalities of what you're telling me, so there's really not much point telling me so much detail."

altmember this is EXACTLY what I say all the time. He still explains.

Barbrahunter thankfully, no. He can fix anything. He's a highly skilled plumbing and heating engineer and can fix anything. Im always telling him how much I appreciate it. But XDown I did express concern at buying this particular van before purchase. I was convinced that it would be no bother. I see how it could have been a perfectly innocent comment taken the wrong way, as I really just muttered it as a recognition of the inconvenience to him as well as me.

Anyway, I hope to speak to him tonight once DC are in bed.

Thanks all.

I did express concern at buying this particular van before purchase. I was convinced that it would be no bother

That's fair enough, I can still see why though, if he was already at his wits' end with it, that any comment at all would be taken as a dig at that particular juncture.

I'll openly admit that I have a bit of a temper, but that's only something that developed in my personality after a long-term mental illness. It's absolutely normal for people who are stressed and anxious to over-react to innocent comments when their adrenaline is already bouncing off the top of the scale. Perhaps there's no such history with your DH, but it's irrelevant if in the immediacy he's stressed, anxious, and a raging ball of adrenaline, the reaction will be exactly the same. Fight or flight, his instinct is to fight, same as mine.

He has a big ego, even if he hides it well, and/or a lot of insecurity, and cannot cope with criticism, would be my theory. Cannot cope to the extent that any comment with negative implications is taken as an intentional personal criticism and he feels he needs to react aggressively.

That's interesting XDown, the idea of fight or flight does fit. You've helped me see a different perspective.

Laniania I don't think he has a huge ego- I've known/know many men who do- and he's not massively insecure. I think it's just that fixing things is part of his esteem and I reckon Xdown has something with the fight or flight theory.