Bizarrely toxic mother- how to respond?

[Battyoldbitch]

Very odd mother IMHO - never particularly close. She’s just…. Odd. Some sort of personality disorder for sure, but not trying to diagnose.

I’d quite like some golden responses to this?! Or maybe I should just be the better person and rise above?

Bit of context- I saw a nasty, weird, unpleasant side to her 8 years ago when I ended up having to stay there with my toddler DC for months. I was in a terrible state and she was not exactly pleasant or helpful. Dark times.

She enabled my dad to be emotionally abusive my entire childhood and beyond. It’s only looking back I see it (of course).

They’re still together. I never have, to this day, felt remotely comfortable around them. Dread seeing them every single time. They’re just awkward, silently (but clearly) judgemental and resentful. Patently obvious we’re not the offspring they ordered.

Occasionally though, things are (distantly) ok between us. Then at other times, there’s an unmistakable ‘vibe’ out of nowhere,
Which plunges me back to childhood (father- I didn’t see this side to my mum back then) .

Anyway- my life is (generally- but currently tenfold) an absolute shitshow! I won’t go into details (it’s on another thread, different username;)). Part of that is a very recent breakup. When I saw my mum this weekend, I was kind of expecting her to at least ask a bit about it- even just ask if I’m ok. But she didn’t. When I started talking about work (and what a terrible week I’d had- woe is me!) she gave the briefest of acknowledgments then started wittering on about her plants or something. I kept expecting her to come back to what ‘we’ were talking about, but no.

She does that a lot. She once picked me & dd up from the airport (a 10 min drive for her btw- and she offered!) I was excitedly telling her about an ordeal we’d had on holiday and she shut me down completely. Just shut it off. Said in an exasperated voice “calm down, I can see it’s working you up talking about it, it’s done now no need to go over it again!” I just really wanted to tell our story!

I digress a bit but just trying to paint a picture.

So today, she dropped dd home (picks her up from school very occasionally). I’ve not been feeling great about her since the weekend and her total lack in interest in my wellbeing. So honestly- I made a real effort to be chirpy and upbeat in the couple of minutes I saw her for.

This evening she sends a text- “hope you’re ok, Battyoldbitch? (You seemed ever so fed up.)” Yes, brackets included!

I even asked dd - did I seem fed up when grandma dropped you off? She said no, you seemed really chirpy!

Why is she trying to bring me down some more?! What should I say, if anything?

Just don't engage.

Or do you need her for childcare? Could you pay for someone instead?

You don't need to say anything tonight, but you do need to think about this going forwards and the message this sends your DD.

What I would say to YOU, is that, while you have them around, to build some kind of relationship with DD perhaps, or for practical reasons, you will need someone to talk it through with (not just us).

some of the issues you could discuss with said therapist (or, if you must, “counsellor”), may include:

1 - what those feelings are that arise when you see your parents
2 - what impact those feelings have on your self-esteem, and whether you would start to feel better/find your life immeasurably better without contact/lower contact
3 - they may help you come up with a script/plan which means you can keep them at arms length. Sometimes, if you try and back off too much, they lean into the void ,and become much harder to deal with
4 - whether you think that your DD has a good and productive relationship with them, or if she will end up dealing with their difficult behaviour.
5 - whether your daughter ends up involved in you having to “deal” with your parents

It sounds as if you are fairly detached from them, but I can’t tell if that’s because you’re trying to keep it bright and breezy, despite the dark subject. If you plan on keeping your contact the same, then the ONLY thing to do is ignore any digs. Really. Nothing with change in their (presumably tight) relationship.

The most likely result is that your mother will start discussing your mood even more. Making it all about you (but not in the way you hoped for). She will, given what you’ve said already, try and analyse your shortcomings, why you are demanding more of her, and leave you feeling thoroughly beaten.

I’m sorry, this is just based on my experience, but you’re on a hiding to nothing. Either let it go, or let them go.

When she makes you feel like this why do you sacrifice dc up for it? To stop her having a go at you? Give going nc some great consideration.
I am nc with mine. She has nc with my dc.

Thanks for your replies, @GreenFingersWouldBeHandy @lborgia and @Easterbunnyiswindowshopping

I don’t necessarily need the childcare, @greenfingers - it’s more that she offered .

Thanks for such a detailed response @lborgia. Self esteem is definitely an issue. WRT being detached- definitely, in lots of ways. There’s not much of a relationship there really. But not detached enough to not feel awkward about saying no, or asserting myself, or just generally being myself.
I don’t dare say anything positive about myself any more (eg something good happening at work (rare!!!)) because I invariably get the kind of response that says don’t get above yourself.

@Easterbunnyiswindowshopping I’m not sure I’m ‘sacrificing’ dd! I would hate to take the gp relationship away from her as she doesn’t have much family. But can’t guarantee it’s always a positive one, if only from subconscious behaviour/comments from them, which I suppose they think are’for the best’ or whatever, but could be damaging. Eg I’ve already heard my dad immediately squashing something dd said about what she’d like to do when she’s older (a recurring theme of my childhood/adolescence hence my far from ideal day to day existence.)

Its not your fault they are like this and you did not make them that way either.

What are your boundaries like here with regards to them?.

If they are too difficult/toxic/batshit for YOU to deal with its the same deal for your child too. Your child needs emotionally healthy role models and neither her maternal grandparents fit the bill here. They keep you down and want to keep on putting you down as well. They will treat her not too dissimilarly to how you've been treated to date and you've already seen some examples of this from them. Your mother cannot do relationships at all and relies on her willing enabler (they always need one of these) to do her bidding for her; this person being your dad. He has also abjectly failed you here as a parent and is really her secondary abuser; he cannot be at all relied upon either.

Consider getting therapy re your parents particularly if you have fear, obligation or guilt re them because they installed those buttons in you. You need a good preferably BACP registered therapist and one at that who has no familial bias about keeping families together despite mistreatment.

I would also suggest you read "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward.

I would also think your parents have never apologised nor have accepted any responsibility for their actions.

I would also find another adult other than mother to collect your DD from school when you cannot do this.

I hear you OP. My family don't allow me to have any feelings either. I get shut down, interrupted, minimised or ignored every time. It hurts. Really badly. I've recently started a policy of 'never complain, never explain' - keep it light, keep it superficial, don't share any difficult feelings, make my own decisions without ever involving them. Basically keeping them at even more than arm's length. I live in a different country, which makes it so much easier in a practical way

It's her, not you. I cannot recommend therapy enough - for you alone, not both of you. It bloody hurts to be rejected like this by a parent. It's dark, scary, painful stuff, and having professional support to process it all will be invaluable

I don't like the sound of 'squashing something your DD said she wanted to do when she's older' that's what my mother did, her ideas for me were a secretary or hairdresser. I was at a grammer school and not allowed to stay on for A levels even though I wanted to do something medical. Took me til my 40s to get myself to university. That is not good for her self esteem or motivation if she is belittled or put down for having ambition.

Blood is thicker than water, so they say. But you don't have to put up with horrible relatives anymore than you do horrible people. Have a chat with her, it'll be hard but that must come first. Tell her how you feel, how she makes you feel by saying such things. I had a friend who had a similarly toxic mother, they haven't spoken for 8 years now and he's well rid. It took some counselling to stop him blaming himslef, maybe explore that too

Maybe you already know the answers. You just need to explore them a bit more. Maybe counselling is the answer for you? Maybe it is worth considering the personality disorder as maybe it’s the way she is. I have realised this with one of my parents. I have distanced myself to an extent.

Yes I have similar with my Mum, in fact reading your post is giving me a very familiar nasty feeling in my stomach. I have needed therapy. A lot of it. Even now my boundaries are very shaky but I am slowly getting there. My Mum would do that thing about my mood being low as well. I have made the mistake in the past of sharing my mental health stuff with my parents. I would never do that again.

And I thoroughly agree with this 'It bloody hurts to be rejected like this by a parent. It's dark, scary, painful stuff, and having professional support to process it all will be invaluable'

I don’t know where to start really……
I have a lovely DH and 3 brilliant DC. I am
35 years old.
I have a good relationship with one of my siblings ( sibling 1 age 32)
and the other sibling (sibling 2 age 40) I cut out of my life a few months ago due to lies, drama caused monthly by them for attention, entitlement and this caused me to become stressed and depressed. It drained the life out of me. Every month is a new drama.
My Mother and Father split up year ago when I was in high school. Both now remarried. But they don’t have a good relationship.
I was informed by another family member (sibling 1) that sibling 2’s ( the sibling I cut out of my life )child had been self harming. I reached out because I wanted to be there for the child ( we still talk regularly as they are a teenager) the child informed me of their unhappiness especially in the home and from the Mother. Stating that they lie all the time (sibling 2). I had a long chat with Sibling 2 regarding the situation and got no where as it was always someone else’s fault. Again I walked away thinking nothing has changed and this validated my reason for cutting her out of my life. I called my Mother and I was devastated about what has gone on regarding the self harm. Her response shocked me. I don’t know why as sibling 2 has always been my Mothers favourite. Sibling 2 can do no wrong in my Mothers eyes and if sibling 2 says jump, my Mother asks how high. Both myself and sibling 1 have been bed ridden with flu etc and all we get is a text or a call which is fine we are adults and both have support at home from DH and DC. Sibling 2 has a cold and my Mother will drive 3 +hours to come down to look after her. It has been like this for years. My Mothers response to the self harming of her Grandchild was all about sibling 2 and how they must be devastated and how can the grandchild do that their mother ( sibling 2) I ended up saying that she needs to be there for her grandchild and to stop wrapping my sibling in Cotten wool. Now it’s been a few days it’s like nothing happened. I text and call the child each day to check on them. I just don’t know what do to regarding my mother. The whole thing doesn’t sit right with me. My DH 100% has my back and says we are all too close and involved and to take a step back. Do I cut her out ? Do I step back? Do I tell them what I really think? Sorry for the long message.
Thank you

@Confusedandstuck It's better to start a new thread of your own rather than replying to this old thread, as most people will just read the opening post (OP) and then give their reply - so they won't be replying to you.

I just worked out how to do that. Thank you. I thought I was starting my own thread. Sorry about that :)

I ended up cutting my mother out of our lives when she started treating my children the way she treated me as a child. I had to do it. She could do that to me but there was no way she would ever be allowed to make my children feel second best.
One thing she did I will always remember. It was when I had my first child after years of trying and failed IVF attempts. The midwife arrived as she was visiting with my sister.

My mother asked the midwife what sort of a mother I was. She told her I was one of the best and my mother raised her eyebrows and replied "you do surprise me"
Sometimes you just have to accept that no matter what you do in life, what you say, how you are.. it will always be met with derision and it will not be your fault OP.
Distance yourself if you don't think you can cut them out. They both sound horrible

Thank you. I’m sorry you went through that. Yes distancing started, so hopefully the only way is up x