What is gaslighting? Has anybody had it done to them?

[RhubardCrumble]

I hear this phrase a lot and not 100% sure what it means. Not in any real life examples.
Has anybody been a victim of gaslighting?
Or even done it to anyone else?

It's when you know something has happened, or happened in a particular sequence, and someone will gaslight you into believing it didn't happen that way, or at all. Kind of like distorting history.

Think Boris and Trump.

Have you heard that joke about gaslighting?

Yes, you have. I literally told you it last week, how can you not remember?

Seriously, there must be something wrong with you.

It happened to me. A family member basically tried to break up my marriage by telling untruths about me, and when I called them out on it, told me it wasn’t said that way / that particular thing wasn’t said and it came from a place of care.

It absolutely wasn’t, thankfully I’m not a complete idiot and I realised what had happened and we are now NC.

So say you're at a party and you clearly see your bf kiss some girl accross the room. A propper full on snog.

And you go over and he says 'what are you talking about?'/'no I didn't, you're imagining things'. And you press further ans he might tell you you are crazy. Or he might say 'it was just a peck'. Or even 'yeah I kissed her, so what? It's just a kiss. Stop overreacting!'

Trying to convince you you saw wrong. But ALSO, a big part of it may be- trying to convince you that you don't have a right to feel the way you feel. That for example, you don't have the right to be hurt about obviously hurtful behaviour.

@LadyMacduff

Have you heard that joke about gaslighting?

Yes, you have. I literally told you it last week, how can you not remember?

Seriously, there must be something wrong with you.

@LadyMacduff That's excellent!

@LadyMacduff

Have you heard that joke about gaslighting?

Yes, you have. I literally told you it last week, how can you not remember?

Seriously, there must be something wrong with you.

That's probably the best description I've seen!

Unfortunately I've experienced it a few times in my life, to some extent my DM still tries to do it regarding things that happened in my childhood - I only really realised that I was being gaslighted when other people that were around remembered something the way I did, and not the way DM tells me it happened (that made me the problem) and when confronted about that plays it down (as a pp already said) as not being a big deal anyway and you're over sensitive and unreasonable to be upset by it.
It's a horrible thing to do to someone, especially when they have/have had mental health problems and know they can behave unreasonably at times when ill and that's used as a tool to facilitate the gas lighting.

Its origins are explained if you google it. The penny dropped for me when I read why the term 'gaslighting ' was used.

Great example @LadyMacduff

A classic gaslighting technique is to refer to how you come across to other people, implying a negative, but not really giving anything specific. The person who is being gaslighted will obviously then ask what the gaslighter means. The gaslighter will then refuse to respond saying something like 'jesus, you really don't get it do you?' or 'you wouldn't understand even if I told you'.

Gaslighters often mimic their victims, in a bad way. So, someone might be cute and nice and smile a lot, say. The gaslighter will mimic this, but exaggerate it, giving the impression that their victims looks like some continually grinning twee little girl.

I've had it done to me, but immediately walked away since I recognised it for what it was. People who gaslight have serious issues, sometimes MH issues which need treating.

It’s a bit like that Shaggy song “It wasn’t me”

Narcissistic people tend to gaslight others because everything about them is geared towards conserving the good, moral image of the narcissist

My ex husband gaslit me all the time, at the time I had no idea it was called gaslighting or that my marriage was emotionally abusive.

He had numerous emotional affairs and an example of gaslighting that would happen all the time:

Me: Sees messages on his phone which indicate an(other) emotional affair. Confronts him.
Him: Denies it
Me: Tells him I've seen it with my own eyes
Him: Denies it and deletes all trace on his phone.
Me: Argue and ask him to just admit it
Him: Denies and shows phone as proof that there are no messages.
Silent treatment starts by him.
Me: Wonders if I've overreacted but knows I saw the messages.
Him: starts talking to me again or maybe threatens suicide if not going his way.
Me: brushes everything under the carpet as can't be sure I've not overreacted or worried he might kill himself.

The above played out every 5 - 6 months for years, 1 other potential thing hecwould do is deny, deny the current accusation but admit to the last one.

Its a complete head fuck and you don't know your arse from your elbow.

So in essence gaslighting is denying something happened when you know 100% it did.

Stonewalling and silent treatment are usually brothers to gaslighting also.

If you're experiencing it in a relationship get out now.

Gaslighting goes further than lying. It is a deliberate creation of a narrative based on fiction rather than fact. It works on the basis that you cannot absolutely prove anything. Anything. When you think about it. So much of what we know is true is based on an accumulation of knowledge from other sources than the regional. E.g. how do we know gravity exist - well we were taught it and we know an Apple falls to the ground. But can you actually prove it? Can you see it? As humans we rely on trusting what others have told us about the world about us, be it form people direct like teachers, family, to TV , books etc.
Gaslighting challenges that trust - a new narrative of the facts is dished out and because you want to trust that person you begin to doubt your own reality and interpretation of events
Gaslighting is meted out to make the victim doubt their own sanity.

I’m sure in some cases it starts as a odd defensive mechanism in some abusers. But Once an abuser realises they can get way with seeding that nugget of doubt into someone over a minor thing, they will expand and expand their lies to more and more complex and fundamental mistruths . They can derive Increasing pleasure in watching your self assurance and confidence crumble and thrive on the power kick it gives them.

Been there. Still healing the scars.

It comes from a play where a man was messing with the gas lights over time as part of trying to make her lose her senses so he can have her put in a mental institution and take her money.

It's use isn't always consistent - for some, it has to be an on-going action over an extended period to make someone question their thinking and reality, sometimes for a particular gain. For others, it isn't about that intent or even have to go on repeatedly, but any behaviour where someone knows one thing is true but tries to make someone else think otherwise and question what they were both there for.

I've had people who've acted like this, though in all but one person, I wouldn't call it gaslighting, but that they really wanted something to be true, that that's how they wanted reality to be, and suggestions otherwise made them defensive. I think that's a lot more common. In the one case, I think they liked to control the narrative, changing it as it suited them, and fucking with other people's heads to try to have that control seemed to please them a lot.

Yes with my ex. Every time I expressed a feeling. I'm sad. I'm tired. He would tell me I was being silly and of course I'm not any of those things. I wasn't allowed to be anything but a Plato.

There was much more that I didn't realise it was happening and he was being insightful etc. But it was plain old gas lighting. And he does it to the children now. Mostly around food. When they say and know clearly they don't like something he tells them they eat it all the time. They are also not tired sad or cold. Or whatever they feel because he doesn't so they can't.

Yes I had it with both parents, and then with an ex.

They tell you that certain memories didn't happen, sometimes they twist it around but other times it's complete denial.

Also if you tell someone how you feel and why you feel that way.... gaslighting is when they try to tell you you feel a different way or you feel it because of a different reason.

A clue that you are being gaslighted is when you know you are explaining yourself clearly yet you keep having to go over and over it trying to explain it in different ways to be understood.......makes you feel like you are incredibly complex and impossible to understand, your thoughts are weird and there must be something wrong with you.

But really you were calling out some very obviously bad behaviour, and stating the appropriate corresponding feeling that you felt.

Another major clue is when you KNOW that something happened, the other person denies it happened that way or at all...so you find yourself looking for evidence that it happened to show it to them to prove that what you're saying it's true...whether that's screenshotting things they said to you, googling dates and times, any evidence at all that proves that what you are saying is true because the person point blank refuses to acknowledge it.

It's all round maddening behaviour that leaves you in a constant cycle of explaining yourself, defending yourself, explaining why a behaviour was wrong, explaining why your feelings are appropriate, feeling right but then wondering if you're crazy because you must be because they deny everything.

My ex did it to me all time, and still does. It really messes with my head.

You come to the realization that you're being gaslighted when you start writing down the most menial things.or will only communicate over messaging / email so that you have proof.

When you can't remember having that conversation and they are insistent they told you xyz. Usually it is stuff you would remember as a lot of it is important. Ie my ex was going away for work. I asked him why he was packing a case one day. He said because I'm going to x for 2 weeks. When I say but you didnt tell me about the trip. Then he says of course I did, what is wrong with you... You never listen to anything I say. Now of course you would remember having a conversation about your husband going away for 2 weeks..... But they have you convinced you are going insane.

I ended up hospitalized due to the severity of it. I honestly thought I was going insane. And he agreed that I was.

Sadly, years later I still write everything down as its mental abuse of the worst kind. I never ever refer to any of my notes, but it's something I feel i just have to do as... What if I do forget.... 😒. I'm not sure it's ever something you can ever fully heal from.

THis is very useful, thanks for the thread.

My XH did it. It has really affected me and my confidence in recalling conversations with other people now. I just automatically assume I'll remember incorrectly and get it wrong.

Unfortunately DS2 has got a lot of his fathers traits

I had someone try to gaslight me during an online argument - so it was all there in writing! He repeatedly misrepresented my argument and finished by claiming I had resorted to ad hom when in fact he called me a liar and a bigot. It was quite amusing to me, but not funny at all if you're living with it. :(

@isthismylifenow

You come to the realization that you're being gaslighted when you start writing down the most menial things.or will only communicate over messaging / email so that you have proof.

When you can't remember having that conversation and they are insistent they told you xyz. Usually it is stuff you would remember as a lot of it is important. Ie my ex was going away for work. I asked him why he was packing a case one day. He said because I'm going to x for 2 weeks. When I say but you didnt tell me about the trip. Then he says of course I did, what is wrong with you... You never listen to anything I say. Now of course you would remember having a conversation about your husband going away for 2 weeks..... But they have you convinced you are going insane.

I ended up hospitalized due to the severity of it. I honestly thought I was going insane. And he agreed that I was.

Sadly, years later I still write everything down as its mental abuse of the worst kind. I never ever refer to any of my notes, but it's something I feel i just have to do as... What if I do forget.... 😒. I'm not sure it's ever something you can ever fully heal from.

I can totally empathise with you

@LadyMacduff

Have you heard that joke about gaslighting?

Yes, you have. I literally told you it last week, how can you not remember?

Seriously, there must be something wrong with you.

This is very good but I would also add that when you're in a relationship with an abuser, you can often feel like you're having a similar conversation but from the opposite side.

Eg

You: Did you order that part for the washing machine?
Him: What, what do you mean?
You: The washing machine isn't working. I asked you last week if you could order a new part from the supplier you got a part from last time.
Him: No you didn't.
You: I did! We were standing here in the kitchen when we had the conversation!
Him: I don't remember that.
You: You must do - you made a face because you said you don't like that guy because he was rude to you last time or something.
Him: I don't know what you're talking about. I don't think you told me. Can't you do it?
You: No, you've got the guy's number in your computer at work. I did tell you, can you really not remember the conversation?
Him: No. You definitely didn't tell me. Anyway, I've been too busy.

I didn't realise what it was when it was happening to me. My ex used to say such mad things I couldn't work out if he really believed them or if he was lying for some reason that I couldn't work out. I basically ended up having to say I was stood here, you were stood there, I was wearing this jumper, you were eating a sandwich, you said X. And he would still tell me I was wrong.

Mine went like this - me single very well off great career - met a guy divorced with two kids - had a drink he seems great. He sent flowers to work - love bombing took me to Paris - etc etc said he loved my strong confidence and feminism.

Told me he liked a lipstick. Didn’t wear it the next two days - he asked me if it was because he had complimented me I was confused - no I just fancied a different one - oh he said it’s just when ever I say I like those boots, top, bra etc you stop wearing it - confused and now absolutely conscious I feel between a rock and a hard place - don’t wear it I look like a twat making a point then he would say I brought you this and you said you liked this shade of green etc I never had - of course you did in the pub - 12 months in I couldn’t tell you what was true and what wasn’t I was a frog boiled in my own water