Am I asking too much, or flogging a dead horse?

[Sisiwawa]

Hi All,
Am looking for advice/ helpful opinions please.
I've been married for 12 years, together for nearly 20.
Have an amazing DS together, who's sitting GCSE's next year.
I've been really unhappy in my marriage for many years, particularly the last 2 or 3. Have been thinking seriously about seperating/divorcing but can't seem to think straight or decide what's the best thing to do. I seem to put other's wants and needs before my own and can't see the wood for the trees.
My husband and I used to get on ok, never amazing stimulating conversation etc but fine.
We barely talk nowadays, i can just about tolerate him and try to be polite/ civil but often snap and critisise, as I am constantly angry and bitter towards him.

There's a few reasons for this,
Firstly, He lies a lot and I can't stand it, some big lies about Finances which went on for years, along with really silly little lies about everyday things where he might forget to do something (he forgets A LOT), then lie or make excuses for it. It took quite a few years for me to realise that he was always doing this.
I eventually caught him out over one big lie about money, that had been going on for years, and even when 'coming clean' he lied right to my face!! He seems weak and 'scared' of getting in trouble with me, so then lies, which makes everything so much worse and I find really stressful, hurtful and unacceptable. That time was over 2 years ago but I feel that was the end for me, even though I'm still here!

He's definitley emotionally immature, can't talk about feelings etc, really avoids those big conversations. When we got together I felt like I gave him all of me, in every way, but have always felt he hasn't done (or can't do) the same.
After a couple of years I felt like he had stopped getting to know me and as though he knew everything he needed to know, instead of us growing together and still learning about each other, if that makes sense.

We havent had sex now for 3 years, which I'm really sad and angry about. i enjoyed sex but about 12 yrs ago, I realised I was always initiating it, so I stopped doing that and it slowly died. He can't or wont initiate anything, unless v drunk! Yuk! Makes me feel v unattactive which I dont think I am. Its too late for that now anyway as we are like strangers, but its the principle.

For years I tried to talk about lack of effort, affection, sex etc with him and he said 'yes, I'll make more effort etc' but never did. Recently he he's been saying that he's worried I'll reject him - which I never had, not once in all these years (although now I would) so I don't feel he can use this as an excuse all these years, I think it comes down to being unconfident/ weak/ lazy. We now don't even sleep in the same bed (he moved out at start of Covid) and has made a couple of noises about moving back in, but that was months ago - I dont even care, and think it would be very awkward if he did now anyway - but it's awkward sometimes, explaining to DS or if his friends are visiting etc.

We have 'big' talks, which are always initiated by me, he always promises he will change, wants to make it work etc etc, but after 100's of these talks, I've finally realised this is all just talk, within a day or two its back to the usual way. I really feel he just says what I want to hear at the time to pacify me or get it over with. He has admitted to being 'lazy-minded' and not making as much effort as he should to maintain the marriage. Very infuriating.
I have fallen in to a Mothering role but only ever wanted an equal partner.
I used to have hope that he would change and meant what he said, but see now its all talk and no action.

i'm summarising hugely but just feel I can't trust or rely on him. I no longer love him and told him this years ago, and he still says he loves me, but this is laughable, I honestly don't feel it from him at all. i think you'd be able to feel if someone loved you, it wouldn't be hidden would it? i dont believe him, I just feel he cant speak his mind.
He's never critised me and does say he finds it hard to say whats on his mind as he's worried he'll hurt me, but I jut want straight talking so I know where I stand.
I feel like its a form of Gaslighting as his words and actions are v different and it makes me feel like I'm reading it all wrong/ expecting too much/ going mad?!! Especially as he lies/ makes excuses and is vague so often.
We put on an act in front of DS and family etc. We rarely meet friends as a couple now, as it just feels fake and I feel people can see through it (probably being paranoid there) but the whole thing just sits really uncomfortable with me.

He's bad with money, very secretive, not open, so I feel we can't plan etc, and now I've started to adopt that approach towards him and am not as open as I was, as it all falls on deaf ears or is very one-sided.

DIY - he cant really do this, but takes on little jobs, takes an age to do them, or does them badly/ half heartledly but wont admit he cant do them!
I feel I've checked out, he's had many years to give me what I need and I dont think I ask a lot - just to feel loved, have some affection, sex, decent communication, trust etc, pretty basic requirements I think, but I've been made to feel that i'm asking too much?

I think its all down to a lack of confidence/bad self esteem, or maybe even undiagnosed ADHD or ASD. I've wrackedmy brains trying to work him out and am exhausted with it all.

He does housework etc, but I carry the mental load of the house, admin, finances, school stuff etc, (both work full time), but also having to remember every thing for him - its so draining. I've stepped back from reminding him of things now, unless it directly affect DS or myself.

My DS is starting to see a few of these things now,
My worry is that if I request to seperate now, what if it affects DS and his exams next year, he does suffer from anxiety. A friend said I should wait a few years til all his schooling is over - do you think this is a good idea? We've only ever wanted a calm steady home life for him as much as poss.
A few years I suggested a Marriage Counsellor. DH said he would arrange it.........I'm still waiting!!

Sorry for the long post. My gut does not want years more of this, I'm sure I deserve better but just can't imagine a different life. I am worn down/ this is now my normal.
Don't want to affect my son's life or future and always seem to put everyone else's happiness before my own. I wake up everyday feeling down/ heavy. I'm early fifties, am dreading when DS leaves home and we're left on our own... DH just wants to keep the status quo I presume.
I could cope financially, at least for a few years until we need to sell our home and take our share.
I can't make him change or meet me in the middle, so should I split? and how do I know when its the right time? I would say I'm deeply unhappy and it's often unbearable but I stay for my DS, but maybe he'd be ok if we split...
Crystal ball anyone?! I'd love to hear your views. Thank you

My goodness, it sounds like you could kick him out and get a life-size cardboard model of him and DS wouldn't notice the difference!

Seriously, get rid now. You are indeed flogging a dead horse. He's never going to change. I'm sure it won't affect your son's academic performance and you never know, his anxiety might actually get better when his passive, untruthful dad doesn't live with him any more (and his mum is less stressed).

Ask yourself what you are getting out of this now. I think you would say nothing.

I would make plans to separate and certainly further stop flogging this dead horse of one.

Staying for the sake of the child does not work out at all well. Your son would most likely be relieved actually that you have separated from his dad. You as his parents have showed your son a terrible example of a relationship. You would not want your son as an adult to have a relationship like this so stop with showing him this is still acceptable to you on some level.

I would wait until after his exams and spend this time quietly making plans.

I'll admit I've not read your entire post. But I don't think I need to, because every bit I have read screams you need to get out.

Do it now. You staying and trying to paper over the cracks chasms in your marriage will only make your son's anxiety worse. You'll be infinitely calmer and in control of your life once you are on your own.

I would still urge you to make the break asap rather than after his exams.

Get everything sorted behind the scenes now g solicitor advice, collecting paperwork and financial statements. As soon as your son has taken his exams you can immediately start the divorce. Good luck op

Your DS is year 10 so is 14/15 and you and your DH haven't shared a bed for the past two years.Your DS isn't that immature/ignorant that he won't have worked out what's going on.

Truthfully over the next few years there won't be a right time to wait to split;they'll be GCSE's then whatever he's doing at college then possibly university;kids are far more resilient than we give them credit for and it sounds as though your DS won't be surprised if you tell him you're separating.

Your "flogging a dead horse" phrase sounds pretty accurate.
No need for a mad rush, but certainly begin to sew the seeds of a physical separation, sounds like that has already happened mentally.
I would arrange some family relationship counselling, even if you go alone initially at least. Ultimately, not only does this show your DS that you have made every effort to resolve the situation, it may also offer an outlet for your DS to talk through his anxieties.

I could have written much of your post myself.... kids younger though (primary age). Five weeks ago I just realised I couldn't go on this way and said I was done. It is horrible right now, but I still know I have done the right thing. I just cannot carry on for another X years, in the hope that it sorts itself out. It won't. Good luck on whatever you decide to do!

Thank you all for your replies, really helpful advice.
I knew I wasn't going mad, but its hard to see it for what it is when you're living in it every day. I've only spoke to one friend in RL about it, as I feel if I share it or say it out loud, then I have to do something about it. I did speak with a solicitor and roughly worked out finances etc.
If I do it soon, DS has 15/16 months to adapt before GCSE's.
I feel like telling DS before I tell 'D'H, because DS is all I really care about!
He's a good dad overall but guilty of 'wife neglect'.
Thank you All

Do you really think he is a good dad overall?. What’s the mindset behind that sentence?.

Women in poor relationships often write such comments when they can think of nothing else positive to write about their man.

He is NOT a good dad if he has and continues to treat your son and yourself like this. He needs to be out of your day to day lives before he does you both any more emotional harm.

Well you have to split. I'd either do it now or July '23 - so not in an exam year. Please dont wait til your ds goes off to university, that really fucks people up.

I think your DS already senses things aren't ok and that fuels his anxiety.

Pull the plug sooner rather than later.

Honestly I think you should do it sooner rather than later. DS might be unsettled for a while, but he would still have a year to get back on track

Book some relationship counselling to work out how to do the best split possible. You want to stay on friendly terms an co parent effectively. Don't entertain any rehashing of old disagreements that's just smoke tactics. If your counsellor is any good he/she should be able to steer you both to calmer waters where you both know what direction you are going to be going to.
Speak to your teen calmly, and hear what he has to say about it. He'll want to know how it will affect him, reassure him that he will stay in the same school and still see his mates ( you don't mention a forced move out of the region) and that things will be fine.

I had your life ... I got out 7 years ago and honestly it's the best thing I ever did.

Oh wow, I can really relate to your post OP. I am in the throws of this and like you I feel most days like I’m going crazy. It’s been going on for a number of years now and like you I feel completely worn down and for me, I am losing the ability to trust what I feel.

My partner has been through a diagnosis and on the higher functioning asd side (he must have masked pre marriage but it very quickly came to light with the daily grind) and he has also been diagnosed with strong traits of another disorder, which is basically someone who longs for intimacy and can’t, a weak sense of self and very closed and immature emotionally, I mean how did I miss this! He is kind and handsome and I fell for that at the time.

@Chattycatty you say this was your life, could you elaborate?

My friends are intervening at this stage and saying that we just have to separate but I still cannot bring myself to do it, the kids obviously but also I think I’ve been gaslite to such an extent I don’t even believe myself, the diagnosis.

Given your suspicions and how you are feeling, and how I can appreciate how that feels, I would go straight ahead, these things take time anyway. Another poster makes a really valid point, it is anxiety inducing for a child, something until now I didn’t fully appreciate. I worry for my kids that they have pretend parents and that they aren’t seeing real happiness but causing them to become unessisarily anxious children really worries me, that’s a hard trait to shift.

I felt exhausted and miserable just reading your original post OP.

Even if he’s diagnosed with ASD or ADHD I think ultimately it makes little difference, as you don’t have to stay with someone who is driving you mad or making you miserable. “Unbearable” is not a good place to be. Why can’t you get things rolling in time for when your son finishes his GCSEs? After 16 your son will definitely be forging his own future and you and your DH will be of much less importance.

You could separate from your DH and even stay friends. You just wouldn’t have to carry him for the rest of your life.

Yes, you are flogging a dead horse and I think you know this.
I’d get out ASAP before exams etc arrive.
You’ll be much happier without him and so will your DC.

He sounds lazy. It doesn't look good based on what you've written.

If he hasn't taken any effort to give you what you need in your relationship despite you telling him, he will never be who you want.

It depends how motivated you feel to call it a day and split up...

I don’t know how you’re tolerating this. Why do you, bar your ds? I think tbh, it might be better for your ds to not live like this. Do you think he’s aware? Surely he is, especially as you’re in separate rooms. I think it might be better overall for you to be separate, maybe ds’s anxiety can be handled better if there’s no atmosphere at home? It seems like it’ll be better for you, definitely.

Get out. He’s a terrible example for your DC. He’s a liar, for goodness sake!

You’re flogging a dead horse.

The sooner you divorce, the sooner you and DS can move on with your lives.

So grateful for your sound advice.
I am a pretty strong person generally but this 'death by a thousand cuts' does leave you confused and drained. I feel embarrassed of him, his lies, lack of integrity etc.
I'm not looking to meet anyone but I know I deserve better than this crap. Thankyou