Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How to make men *see* ?

24 replies

bswnsg · 24/02/2022 19:53

The consequences for exH of sleeping with prostitutes has been dire. He has lost the security of his little world which lasted 34 years. He has lost me. His beautiful, now adult, children view him with contempt; they tolerate him at best. All the things we were supposedly working towards have evaporated. Every memory of past things we did together, firstly as a couple, then as a family is clouded; I can barely remember them now because I must re-envision them based on the man I now know him to be. Ye he still maintains that he is not a 'bad' person.
No good can ever come from visiting prostitutes while married. Furthermore, 'paid-for' consent is not consent. How can we make men see this?

OP posts:
ladygindiva · 24/02/2022 20:10

I don't have the answers but I just wanted to say I'm sorry you have been through this and I hope that you attain happiness without him.

ChiefInspectorParker · 24/02/2022 20:13

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

CrumpetStrumpet · 24/02/2022 20:13

You can't. You can't teach anyone morals. Sadly men who pay for sex see women as disposable on some level. They conveniently choose to believe the smokescreen most sex workers put up of pretending to enjoy what they do. Ultimately their hard on over rides all decency.

I am so sorry for everything you have been throughFlowers

CrumpetStrumpet · 24/02/2022 20:14

He maintains he isn't a bad person because he genuinely believes he isn't. The level of delusion these men have is staggering.

labyrinthlaziness · 24/02/2022 20:15

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Nothing you can do. Let him think what he wants.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 24/02/2022 20:16

He knows the truth. He doesn’t care. He chooses to think he’s not a bad person because he feels absolutely entitled to women’s bodies and emotional and physical work

Absolutely this, I'm afraid.

Icandoallthings · 24/02/2022 20:51

I am sorry for what you and your DC have been through. I hope you can find a way to move forward Flowers

D0lphine · 24/02/2022 21:00

I don't know why men don't get it either.

I just think for gods sake man! She doesn't want to have sex with you! You had to pay her! Meaning she didn't fucking well want to have sex with you!

How can they enjoy an encounter knowing that the woman didn't really want to have sex??? To me that's the ultimate turn off but they don't give a shit about what the woman wants. They only care about their cock.

MintJulia · 24/02/2022 21:06

Nothing you say or do will make any difference. Men know what they risk but they don't care.You may be mourning all the things that now won't happen, He doesn't give a toot.

AgentJohnson · 26/02/2022 10:35

Men not ‘seeing’ isn’t the issue, the issue is that men like your Ex don’t care enough to see. Your Ex’s life being completely changed because of his actions still hasn’t changed his attitude, which means ‘seeing’, wouldn’t have had an effect anyway.

Pinkbonbon · 26/02/2022 10:43

Honey, he does see. He just doesn't want you to know that.

You never have to explain toanyone why obviously shitty behaviour is shitty. And if they act like they just don't get it, they are lying. And they are trying to mindfuck you. They would rather you believe you were overreacting or crazy or somehow being unfair to them than admit any wrongdoing. And that will never change.

So stop trying to explain why hurtful behaviour is hurtful to a grown man. Because its nonsensical. He is not like you or I. He lacks basic human empathy. And there's nothing you can do to fix that.

Choose yourself. Love yourself. Don't waste time trying to explain why cruelty is cruel to a psycho. You'd have more luck explaining why eating meat is wrong to a lion.

PermanentTemporary · 26/02/2022 10:46

Lots of men see this perfectly well.

I'm really sorry but you need to disengage from this relationship. You're still spending energy on him, and of course that's understandable after 34 years. He did something that's a deal breaker for most people, the deal is broken and it's time to try and work out how to move on. I'm sorry he hurt you so much.

ravenmum · 26/02/2022 10:51

If he saw himself as the lowest of the low, a contemptible idiot with no morals and deserving to be shunned by society, a "bad person", i.e. not just having done something bad, but having a permanently, fundamentally tainted character, then he'd have a mental breakdown. That wouldn't make life better for any of you. It's already bad enough that the children have lost the father they loved.
It's a horrible time to go through. I hope that you get through it as best you can.

D0lphine · 26/02/2022 13:57

Good men don't pay women for sex. Simple as. It's thoroughly vile.

Who cares if he sees or not? He isn't your problem now.

KirstenBlest · 26/02/2022 14:19

Don't try to make him see. If they don't have the moral compass then you're flogging a dead horse.

Pumperthepumper · 26/02/2022 14:22

He sees it fine, how could he not? He just doesn’t care.

NowEvenBetter · 26/02/2022 18:24

He does see. He knows exactly what he’s doing and he enjoys coercing women for him to use their bodies. Unsure why you think he doesn’t ‘see’, or why you think he’d give a shit. Women are objects for him to use. 🤮

Watchkeys · 26/02/2022 19:16

You have as much chance of making him seeing it your way as he has of making you see it his way.

All we can do is stay away from that sort of behaviour, and raise our children well, so that it doesn't keep repeating into future generations.

Happy36 · 26/02/2022 19:17

You are coming from a very noble place, OP.

On a personal level, I am sorry that this happened to you and your family. Remember that we cannot control what others do (but of course you are right and good to want there to be more done to make people respect women and their bodies).

Tamworth123 · 26/02/2022 22:34

He has to believe that.

Most child sex abusers don't think they're bad people either (just to give an even more extreme example).

You can't make him see or admit it.

Hes probably already subjected you to so much hurt, stress etc. Don't give him any more headspace.

Closetbeanmuncher · 26/02/2022 23:36

Because..

How to make men *see* ?
MrsPsmalls · 27/02/2022 03:21

I don't think they see. It's just wishful thinking when we say deep down they must see how despicable they are. They don't. In their opinion they pay for sex because they are busy or ugly or a bit bored at home, none of which makes them a bad person. They like sex so much that they believe the prostitute and all normal women like it about as much as they do. The money changes hands to save them the hassle of the dinner date, the meeting her parents and the normal niceties that usually come before sex.

CheekyHobson · 27/02/2022 03:54

You're asking the wrong question.

The question is "Why am I still trying to make him care about things that he clearly doesn't care about?"

You've listed a string of 'consequences' that he has experienced but most of them are actually consequences for you and other people.

He has lost me.
This isn't hurting him (except for the loss of whatever services you were rendering him in the first place ) because he wouldn't have cheated in the first place if he cared much about losing you.

His beautiful, now adult, children view him with contempt; they tolerate him at best.
This isn't hurting him much apart from the fact that he feels entitled to respect regardless of his actions. He doesn't care about the loss of the relationship because the relationship was never very important to him in the first place.

All the things we were supposedly working towards have evaporated.
I expect if you think honestly about this, they were mostly things you were working towards and he was putting in whatever minimal effort he needed to in order to avoid outright conflict.

Every memory of past things we did together, firstly as a couple, then as a family is clouded; I can barely remember them now because I must re-envision them based on the man I now know him to be.
This is exclusively your pain.

Yet he still maintains that he is not a 'bad' person.
He says this because this is what he actually thinks and the sooner you accept that and act in accordance with it, the better.

He thinks doing what he wants is fine, and likely wouldn't care much whether you were sleeping with prostitutes too as long as he could be assured that you wouldn't stop providing whatever services he expects from you and wouldn't embarrass him publicly.

You are dealing with a person who doesn't care much about outcomes for other people. He is only interested in outcomes for himself. And he expects everyone to behave in fundamentally the same way he does. He can't understand why you care so much about other people in the same way that you can't understand why he doesn't.

You are trying to avoid accepting that the world is not the safe and logical place you want it to be. You want to believe in a world where people can be taught to see 'right' from 'wrong' if only you present it to them in a certain. You don't want to accept that what you see as 'right', some people will see as 'wrong' no matter how you explain it to them, and what you see as 'wrong', some people will see as 'right'.

This is what we call 'the human condition'. We are all different, sometimes far more so than we want to accept. The ideal of all people living together in perfect love and unity is as far removed from reality as the nightmare of all people descending into total chaos and anarchy.

All you can do is find your people and stick with them. This guy isn't one of them.

CheekyHobson · 27/02/2022 03:55

*in a certain way

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread