Page 2 | All the good men seem to be gone

WhatYouDontKnow · 24/02/2022 14:52

@MixMatch

Men are a product of their society (aside from their instrinic biology which make them men obviously).

Our society is one where pornography I.e. the objectification and exploitation of women, is indulged in by many men, is seen as normal and even healthy, including by many women. Viewing these things fundamentally changes how boys and men view women, and women accepting this means they show men they're happy for women I'm principle to be treated this way. Of course as a result, most men won't exhibit high empathy, true love and kindness towards women.

Women reap what they sow unfortunately by accepting these terrible things in society and not condemning it sttingly enough and actively refusing to have relationships with men who like such things. There are still good men out there (and I know some lovely men) but naturally the number of truly good single men diminishes with age as they get partnered up (and normally stay married so don't become available again).

Picking out good men is actually easy. Bad men show their true colours early on if you pay attention. The ones looking for one thing obviously won't stay if you're not giving them that one thing etc. I know of women who complain of bad guys but ignore early signs of bad behaviour which wiser women would see. Having sex with men prematurely bonds you to them hormonally which reduces the ability to discern properly at a stage when you need to be very rational and be dumping bad guys/not going out with them at all.

Porn alone being a dealbreaker will cut off majority of men. Add other red flags/dealbreakers, there really isin’t that many good men out there.

MixMatch · 24/02/2022 20:29

@WhatYouDontKnow i agree, that's the whole point - once you start avoiding and cutting off the bad ones you have SO much precious time/energy avaliable so you actually have a good chance of finding the decent men amongst the rubbish instead of wasting months/years with the bad ones.

Minimising your involvement with bad men also saves yourself from so much pain and heartache and emotional wounds that can go on to affect your future relationships. Why would a woman find a man attractive who seeks out women being treated in such an objectifying and degrading way and even derives immense pleasure out of it?!

I truly don't understand why a woman would even want a pornography loving man. How can your bar be so low or you be that desperate for a man. There are many women out there with good loving men whose husbands treat them and their children with love, fidelity and respect. But these men's values are different from the majority so a woman will struggle to find them while her standards for men are so low.

More generally, women accepting way less than they should from men in our society also means many men just carry on with bad behaviour and model it to their sons who continue the bad cycle, since it doesn't stop a lot of women sleeping with them, having serious relationships with them and having kids with them who they're then poor role models for. These women tend to stay in endless cycles of strings of bad men treating them badly, while the good ones get taken.

WhatYouDontKnow · 24/02/2022 21:15

@MixMatch

Oh yeah, I agree.
Personally I don’t even believe anymore that ”good” men exist and I’m going to stay single for rest of my life.

What I meant is that no woman would date a man who doesn’t watch porn, there wouldn’t be many women in relationships.
I don’t know any other women who are okey being single for rest of their lives, they will stoop down to men’s level to be in one.
And that’s just one deal breaker.
Never mind other red flags/personal preferences.

greasyshoes · 24/02/2022 22:21

@Timesup87

I don’t know how much more work I can do on myself, to attract better. All I seem to attract are controlling men, or men who just fancy one thing. Neither of which appeals to me.

Only a very small proportion of men are narcissistic and controlling. The overwhelming majority are not. So you need to take a step back and ask, why is it that you are constantly approaching men who are narcissistic and controlling, and why you are overlooking the majority of normal men? What is it about those men that makes you approach them in the first place?

VenusMantrap · 24/02/2022 22:43

I’m a bit older than you, and divorced about 5 years ago.

Through OLD, I’ve lived and learned so much about myself and about men.

Lots of great advice that you’ve picked up on in this thread about being very clear on what you’ll accept (I was too easy going at first as well).

The “good” men are not all gone… far from it. But sometimes you’re just not a great fit. Be really honest with yourself about what you want.
Do t be afraid to lay down rules - IME I’ve found men actually really like clear standards and boundaries.

Be yourself and don’t be afraid to be by yourself. It’s very liberating. Fill your life with things and people who make you happy. I recently met an amazing man who I’m letting into my life slowly, and clearly stating what’s acceptable and not acceptable (and sticking by this). So far it’s all working out but my god… I have finished (or not even met) so many based on my criteria that I also thought I was chasing a dream.

Sorry that was so long.

TL;DR Create the life you want and welcome the man who enhances it ❤️

Original poster

Timesup87 · 24/02/2022 23:43

@VenusMantrap I fully intend to stay single until I meet someone who respects my boundaries. Much of the points in my post have been overlooked, such as the point that I have been out of a serious relationship for nearly 3 years now. Secondly, the moment I picked up on overbearing needs to break my boundaries from the very few men I have had brief interludes with, I have cut those ties off.

I would rather meet someone who is right for me, and vice versa, than settle down with someone who is not quite right. Sometimes it is just the case of personalities not coming together, other times more complex.
As you say, I’d rather someone I can be myself with completely, and the same stands for the other person. Thank you for commenting.

OP posts:

Watchkeys · 25/02/2022 00:20

@greasyshoes

Only a very small proportion of men are narcissistic and controlling

But that's not what OP said? She said she was meeting men who were controlling and only after one thing. Very different from narcissistic. A high proportion of men on dating sites are only after one thing.

CupOfNiceTea · 25/02/2022 06:17

I really don’t think there ever were that many good men to begin with.

greasyshoes · 26/02/2022 21:12

She said she was meeting men who were controlling and only after one thing. Very different from narcissistic.

Point still stands.

A high proportion of men on dating sites are only after one thing.

False.

Watchkeys · 26/02/2022 21:16

A high proportion of men on dating sites are only after one thing

False

Strong argument, there.

greasyshoes · 26/02/2022 21:16

@Watchkeys

Statements made without evidence are dismissed without evidence.

WhatYouDontKnow · 26/02/2022 21:55

[quote Watchkeys]@greasyshoes

Only a very small proportion of men are narcissistic and controlling

But that's not what OP said? She said she was meeting men who were controlling and only after one thing. Very different from narcissistic. A high proportion of men on dating sites are only after one thing.[/quote]
This 💯

Allhellbrokeloose · 26/02/2022 23:08

Depends what you mean by “good.”

I work in a global company with lots of internal and external clients, most of whom are men. While the internal clients are your typical city / corporate / wealthy types, the external clients in contrast are very varied in terms of sector, age and culture. However, I would say that the majority of them, even the really happily married ones would not say no to sleeping with someone else if they got the chance. It doesn’t mean they’ll leave their wives, or they don’t love their wives - they do! - but they just feel entitlement.

That’s the baseline. Men feel entitled.

If you still perceive someone as good despite this, then yes there are some good men out there.

MixMatch · 26/02/2022 23:26

[quote WhatYouDontKnow]@MixMatch

Oh yeah, I agree.
Personally I don’t even believe anymore that ”good” men exist and I’m going to stay single for rest of my life.

What I meant is that no woman would date a man who doesn’t watch porn, there wouldn’t be many women in relationships.
I don’t know any other women who are okey being single for rest of their lives, they will stoop down to men’s level to be in one.
And that’s just one deal breaker.
Never mind other red flags/personal preferences.[/quote]
@WhatYouDontKnow it comes down to women underestimating their own power and giving up their power to men.

We actually set the bar for men in society. Men benefit SO much from having women in their lives. It's why when relationships break up, or end from bereavement , it's nearly always the man who moves onto a replacement woman quicker than the woman does. Women are also the 'gatekeepers' of sex since it normally means much more to us emotionally, plus the natural consequences of sex being children who we carry and give birth to, and heartache when things go wrong.

Online pornography is only a VERY recent phenomenon. Objectifying and degrading images of women of some kind, primarily for the pleasure of men, has been around for a long time but has been nowhere near as ubiquitous, easy to access, and accepted as it is now.

There was a stigma around it and magazines etc were hidden somewhat. Women for nearly all our time in history haven't accepted such degradation of ourselves and fellow women and men had to toe the line. The vast majority of men will be forced to change to respecting women more if it meant not/rarely having sex , relationship comforts and children. It's not too late to stem the tide. Things can change if we really want it and know our self worth.

MixMatch · 26/02/2022 23:40

Basically there WOULD be plenty of women in relationships (if they wanted them) if we didn't accept this pornography abomination. And crucially, they would be much better relationships too.

After all, for the vast period in history until very recently, the majority of women wouldn't have sex before marriage etc (and this is still the case now in some areas).

Women refusing to have sex before the commitment of marriage didn't stop women from having relationships at all - the very opposite in fact since many more men were committing to women compared to now, and the human race has been continuing for centuries. Men were also a lot less entitled and generally not merely seeing women as casual sex toys the way dating happens now, since sex was strongly linked to love, commitment, and being responsible to the woman and any potential children resulting from sex with her.

santasnothere · 27/02/2022 00:32

You've definitely got a point @MixMatch , but I think that women have been really conned in the 'sexual liberation' seems we are getting screwed over while getting screwed over.
I am one of those women who refuse to make a man's life better for him unless he makes mine better too (still single )

MrsPsmalls · 27/02/2022 02:48

Your children are the problem. Nice intelligent men who are in touch with their emotions, realise that as you have children he (the man) will always come second. He will also take his responsibility towards your children seriously. He won't want to meet them until he's commited to you, won't stay at yours, won't want to muddle up children's lives. And because of this won't probably ever date you. You will be rejected by most nice men before they even meet you as other more straightforward options are available. Chancers and potential cocklodgers will have no such qualms. Long-term relationships that start when children are young are very rare. I do know lots of formerly single mums though who are having a lot more sucess now their children have left home

Grasping · 27/02/2022 06:47

I spent 6 years dating the ‘right kind of man’

Gave up, decided to just have some fun dates with men who didn’t tick the boxes.
Met the one

Grasping · 27/02/2022 06:53

@MrsPsmalls

Your children are the problem. Nice intelligent men who are in touch with their emotions, realise that as you have children he (the man) will always come second. He will also take his responsibility towards your children seriously. He won't want to meet them until he's commited to you, won't stay at yours, won't want to muddle up children's lives. And because of this won't probably ever date you. You will be rejected by most nice men before they even meet you as other more straightforward options are available. Chancers and potential cocklodgers will have no such qualms. Long-term relationships that start when children are young are very rare. I do know lots of formerly single mums though who are having a lot more sucess now their children have left home

I agree with this, hence why I changed my outlook.

Personally, I wouldn’t choose to get into a relationship with someone with young children. I feel incredibly lucky that I met someone who was prepared to do that.
There’s not many around though

Original poster

Timesup87 · 27/02/2022 23:59

I thank you all for your input, as well as other insights shared into other matters.

Seems I shall have to continue my life without a man and carry on providing a loving, stable home for myself and my children. How doom and gloom.

OP posts:

WhatYouDontKnow · 28/02/2022 06:37

@Timesup87

Why do you think it’s doom and gloom?

Usually I find HAVING a man makes one’s life all doom and gloom.

Being single is so easy and carefree….

Grasping · 28/02/2022 07:10

It’s really not doom and gloom @Timesup87 💐

Never rely on anyone else to make you happy. I have a theory that you never find true happiness with someone else until you are content alone.

Jota67 · 28/02/2022 07:25

I think you need to just enjoy dating and not look for THE ONE.
I could write a book about my OLD experiences....some real horrors out there but also had some great times and met some nice people.

I was single parent when I met my OH. He wasn't my typical type but seemed cool , fun and chatty and also had a kid the same age. Because he was handsome and well groomed etc initial impression could have been he was a bit of a player.......so so wrong.

Turns out he is the most dependable caring man I have ever met whilst great fun.

I think you need to focus on enjoying meeting new people without expectation and a strict tick list as you may be surprised.
Good luck.

Watchkeys · 28/02/2022 13:40

@Timesup87

I thank you all for your input, as well as other insights shared into other matters.

Seems I shall have to continue my life without a man and carry on providing a loving, stable home for myself and my children. How doom and gloom.

Why is it doom and gloom? Why can't you provide a loving, stable, happy home for yourself and your children?

If you're thinking you need a man to provide the happiness you need, that explains why you're having issues.

Casper001 · 28/02/2022 14:57

@Allhellbrokeloose

Depends what you mean by “good.”

I work in a global company with lots of internal and external clients, most of whom are men. While the internal clients are your typical city / corporate / wealthy types, the external clients in contrast are very varied in terms of sector, age and culture. However, I would say that the majority of them, even the really happily married ones would not say no to sleeping with someone else if they got the chance. It doesn’t mean they’ll leave their wives, or they don’t love their wives - they do! - but they just feel entitlement.

That’s the baseline. Men feel entitled.

If you still perceive someone as good despite this, then yes there are some good men out there.

I don't think men are any more entitled than women.

Good people generally attract good people. You can boundary things around children etc. It's about being realistic and having an open mind. Modern dating is a cesspit but you have to persevere and know what you are looking for, which only really comes with experience (unfortunately some of which will be bad).