Is it right for her to say leave them to it or should she acknowledge that her DD has been out of order??

[thegirlwhofelltoearth]

Sorry this is long. Am a regular but have NC as this is outing and sensitive. Please be gentle as I'm doubting my own instincts here quite a lot and I may be being precious but I'm quite upset.

I have an old friend (20+ years). My DD and her DD have been very close friends for about six years. We've been on holiday together, loads of playdates, sleepovers etc. They are almost family.

The girls are now 11 (my DD) and 12 (her DD). Not surprisingly, they've come to a bit of a crossroads: her DD is now at secondary and on the threshold of puberty and is trying to be more independent and I sense is pulling away from my DD who is in year 6 and slightly more childish.

All fine and understandable. I've been trying to gently prepare my DD for this for some time and suggesting indirectly she may want to become less reliant on this girl as I could see the writing on the wall. Up until now this has been managed reasonably well and I thought they were slowly but amicably drifting apart.

This week her DD apparently out of the blue sent my DD a slew of really nasty WhatsApp messages (my DD has a phone but with no internet and a limited selection of pre-vetted numbers on it). Accusing her of being a "snitch" and a baby, saying she needed to grow up and that none of her other friends were as childish as my DD, threatening to exclude her from another separate chat thread with a third friend, saying the other friend didn't like her. Really mean and sarcastic when my DD apologised and said she didn't know what she had done wrong. My DD is completely perplexed and very very upset.

As far as I can tell from my DD, what's happened is that a couple of months ago my DD felt the other girl was being rude and unkind to my DD when she spent a couple of hours at their house. My DD was upset and told the mum (my friend) that her DD was hurting her feelings and making her upset and she wanted to go home. It was probably a bit childish for her to have involved another adult in a children's disagreement and I can see why the other girl was irritated but I don't think it merits the level of bile this has prompted from the other girl, certainly not more than two months after the event.

All the other interaction they've had since then has been friendly and non-eventful (albeit they haven't seen as much of each other) so this is out of the blue but that is literally the only thing I can think which could have triggered it. I have checked my DD's phone and there's been nothing else to merit this, just routine back and forth between them. The other girl has been to my DD's birthday party since then without event.

My friend has now sent me a text semi-apologising for her DD's behaviour this week, saying she hopes my DD's feelings aren't hurt but its down to hormones and she doesn't want to get involved and wants to leave them to it.

I can sort of see her point about not wanting to get involved: I do think children need to learn to fight their own battles and that a parent's involvement in squabbles can be counterproductive. Her daughter can't be forced to be friends with mine.

But in this situation I don't think this is good enough. Her DD's behaviour has been extremely upsetting to mine, borderline bullying. If there is something going on that I'm unaware of, she hasn't taken the trouble to tell me. While I do accept her daughter's right not to want to be close friends with mine, I do think the DD owes her a proper apology and an explanation for this behaviour. I also think if my kid were doling that kind of behaviour out to another kid I'd want to know what was going on with her.

I'm very conscious of not wanting to cause a rift with the friend, who I love and respect, want to support her if anything is wrong and also conscious that I may not know the whole story. But I am pretty pissed off on my DD's behalf and don't really want to put her through any more of this treatment. I'm not going to cause a row in the short term as I don't think its helpful but AIBU to want to give the friend a wide berth for now too as well as the daughter?

@Ionlydomassiveones

Thanks. This is a really wise post. Its helpful to have the benefit of perspective here.

You're absolutely right about the fundamentals here: they do need to find a way to at best reframe their relationship and at worst separate. It's painful, but its one of the lessons that has to be learned. And my friend and I need to come to terms with this as well.

But I still feel deep down that what took place was really shitty behaviour and if my daughter treated someone like this I would be absolutely livid. Clearly this isn't my circus and my friend's relationship with her DD is not my concern. And I need to put this to one side.

But I'm angry and upset that her approach has just been "oh they're on their own, it it what it is". I feel that she is glossing over the pain she knows has been caused to me and my DD with a casualness that has bordered on cruelty and hasn't had the decency to own this. I guess its difficult.

I guess I need to just deal with it and move on.

I think I’d help your dd write a message saying ‘this is really unkind and bullying and I am going to block you now. I am sorry to lose your friendship.”

It shows the other girl that actions have consequences and, more importantly shows your DD that you absolutely support her and that she has autonomy to say “fuck, NO!” to bullies.

Sorry for your DD OP, that does sound very hurtful.

FWIW I would be very pissed off if I found my DS had sent messages like that and would be insisting on him making a proper apology. But a grudging apology prompted by someone else's parent would be meaningless, wouldn't it? We can't control other people's parenting, only our own.

I hope your DD has other friends who will be transitioning to secondary with her - maybe you could encourage some closer bonds there?

Completely non-germane to the issue - you said your DD's phone "doesn't have internet" - so how does she have whatsapp? Or did you mean you've locked the phone down so she can only have certain apps. (I'm certainly glad my son grew up before smartphones became ubiquitous, I had enough trouble with fecking bulletin boards!)

@MrsWooster

Thanks. My DD has blocked the other girl now and I've communicated this to the mum (in a non-emotional way). I said it wasn't necessarily permanent but she didn't want to be spoken to like that by a friend. So that message will have got through.

I'm glad I'm not going crazy though. With all due respect to @Ionlydomassiveones who I think has made some really good points, I do think it was really mean girl behaviour and above all I want her to know she doesn't have to tolerate that.

I agree with your friend. You can either drag it out and risk making it worse or just wait and see what happens.

@TabithaTittlemouse I'm not questioning that. It's very clear their friendship has changed and we can't really intervene on the big picture which is the future of the friendship. I'm just hurt and shocked that she's so blasé about her DD bullying mine and seems to think that's just how things go.

You really do need to support your dd in backing away from this friendship.
You can't force the other mum and dd to apologise and make amends but absolutely teach your dd not to accept that behaviour.
Blocking her number is a good start but I'd suggest no contact at all for a good while now. No birthday parties or "play dates" because you want to meet up with your friend.
Make a clean break now and perhaps in a year or so they'll be able to be civil in a social setting once the dust has settled.

I agree with the action you've taken and would also be cooling off my friendship with the mum, as to me that attitude is one I don't think is kind or pleasant and I wouldn't want to be friends with someone like that.

I think definitely draw a line and move on. I remember stuff like this from when I was around the same age , hormones, secondary school, shifting friendships. Its hard, but most of us survive.
One of the best bits of advice I was given is don't fall out with the parents over the kids disagreements. They need to work it out for themselves x

@Georgeskitchen

I think definitely draw a line and move on. I remember stuff like this from when I was around the same age , hormones, secondary school, shifting friendships. Its hard, but most of us survive. One of the best bits of advice I was given is don't fall out with the parents over the kids disagreements. They need to work it out for themselves x

I totally agree with you in principle. I do think its important to decouple their issues from ours. But I also don't feel I can let bullying go without comment.

Thanks everyone this has been very helpful.

You’ve said your piece. I’d back off the friendship for a bit and certainly between the girls.

Good luck. Teenage(ish) years are tricky.

They’re not ‘like family’: you’re close friends with someone and your DC were friends as a result, when they were young, and some things have changed. It’s sad but happens a lot.