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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I don't know what to do now

43 replies

Notsuchaniceguy · 20/02/2022 10:53

Apologies, long post from a man.

DW and I have tried to rebuild after agreeing to separate (I raised it) in early Jan. together 20 years, no kids of our own, mine and hers adult. Came together in an emotional affair for both of us, went from meetings at work, after work to living together straight away. Huge suspicion and mistrust that I would leave her, have affairs, by DW for many years, some really horrible rows, never physical although DW would often stop me leaving a room and I was quite capable of storming off from house. Various money problems and pressure to split from family but we stayed together out of sheer bloody mindedness. Then 8 years ago I kissed someone else whilst drunk. I don't know why, I didn't even like them much. Maybe I wanted a way out? Maybe a narcissist act of self destruction. We sort of got past it but it remains a trauma memory for DW.

After agreeing split in January we agreed to try Relate. I moved back into bedroom and we were intimate again for the first time in 3 or 4 years. Not entirely successfully TBH. We have talked a lot, almost always about my failings. I have done a lot of reading on here and in various books and we concluded I was in part, maybe fully, a vulnerable narcissist. I certainly think I'm a really shitty human being, always have been. I was an unwanted child. So was DW. Neither of us were loved by our parents.

We spoke more yesterday and I spoke about maybe not being able to love someone properly, not having empathy. Although I do love my children. In journey home from an afternoon out DW said some things about me that became increasingly critical and attacking, some mocking, some awful to hear that she thought about me and my behaviour. But mixed up with saying she loved me didn't want to lose me. Back home it continued and I said then we had reached an end. DW became very very angry, threw a tin of biscuits. Hard. Not at me but for a moment I really thought she was going to. Then she ordered me to leave the house. I said no as I had no idea if she would let me back in. We own it together. She threw some clothes outside and then said she was calling the police. So I left. I was parked up in a lay-by booking a Travelodge when she appeared in her car, having tracked me on my phone. Full of apologies, said she regretted all the things she had said and done and said she hadn't called police, just faked her side of the call. It sounded real to me though. So I went home.

DW said her anger was because I am breaking her heart. I think this is true but I don't see a way back. I think we are a horrible toxic mix now. I am a narcissistic self-absorbed shit who should not have relationships and DW is someone for whom intense emotions are expressed as anger. She can be cruel and mocking. Doing 'impersonations' of me (sing song voices, air quotes) was quite common although until yesterday almost gone since we agreed to try again. I go 'calm' and undermining with logic. But yesterday was a whole new level. I absolutely get she was hurting badly. I know if I agree yesterday never happened we can return to our version of normal. But should I do that? DW said yesterday she lives in fear of me. I asked her why she stayed and she then said fear meant anxiety, worrying about upsetting me. She said I sulk whereas she blows up and forgets about things. I'd say I live with anxiety about upsetting her. We both walk on eggshells and have always done.

I feel shell shocked today. I feel I want to record our conversations, I don't trust my memories, we argue over what was said a few minutes before, how it was said. I want to leave today, go to a hotel for a few days but I am afraid about whether she will change the locks or hurt herself. She never has before but she said yesterday she nearly walked under a car to see if I'd even notice.

But maybe this is all my narcissist stuff in play. I wonder now if I do and say things and then genuinely don't recall them or genuinely recall them said in a different tone or with different words. Is that how it is for some narcissists? In a sense I'm scared now of both of us and what we are capable of.

We haven't spoken today. DW is in bed. I have no idea what to say.

OP posts:
Macaroni46 · 21/02/2022 08:27

I agree with previous posters, you need to go your separate ways.
I'd stop with the labelling / analysing of personality type and focus on what YOU want. Whether you're a Narcissist or not is impossible for any of us to say over the internet and I feel you're focussing too much on this. Your DW is giving you very mixed messages and certainly sounds like she is clinging to you in a most unhealthy, toxic way, not through love.
Have the confidence and belief in yourself to walk away OP, to set yourself free from all this abuse and toxicity.

Mermaidwaves · 21/02/2022 08:42

It sounds as if your wife is blaming you for everything? You've both self diagnosed you as a narcissist but she sounds pretty terrible too!

You came together through an affair which didn't give you the best start, then she's paranoid and doesn't trust you for years, even though she was guilty of an affair too. Then she labels you as a narcissist which you agree with which then allows her to act horribly because it's your fault. Do you want to spend the rest of your life in this toxic mess?

Notsuchaniceguy · 21/02/2022 08:44

@EvenMoreFuriousVexation

You've got to get out of this OP. Do NOT enter joint counselling with this woman. You are in an abusive relationship - whether there is abuse on both sides or just one, there is clearly abuse and counselling cannot work on that basis.

Get therapy for yourself and work on your self esteem. You need to walk away from this got both your sakes. On your own you could be a stable, sensible person, with work on your own issues. Together you are a toxic car crash.

She has spent 20 years punishing you for the way in which you BOTH got together. Fuck me, if you'd committed armed robbery you'd have been out of prison years ago! Set yourself, and her, free.

And if she wants more money, what action has she taken to get it?

She is in a lot of pain. She isn't awful I don't think, she, like me, can do very hurtful things. I kissed someone else during our marriage. That's the worst thing either of us has done by far, shameful infidelity. DW said she always knew I'd cheat. I did. That is fucking awful. I don't want sympathy for that or understanding. I know now that I cannot be in a romantic relationship with another person again. I cheated to be with DW and I cheated on her as said. That says a lot about me. I am OK with the no relationship future with anyone. DW is not and it is really hurting her.

And as for money, she has a professional and demanding job - just not that well paid. But due to papering over cracks by spending money (and us both leaving past marriages with nothing) we don't have much savings. We'd get by and I'd take that for peace. DW says I have wasted 20 years of her life if I leave. I get that to a degree but would also look back at some good times, how we helped each other at times in building our careers, as step-parents to each others children, during times of ill-health.

DW says if we separate that all means nothing. Does it? I don't really know but it seems of worth and value to me.

OP posts:
Macaroni46 · 21/02/2022 08:51

OP please stop with the self loathing and beating yourself up. Your DW is equally culpable - it takes two to make a relationship work and her behaviour is manipulative, dramatic and controlling.
You don't seem to be listening to the replies on here, preferring to continue to paint yourself negatively and seeming to try to justify her behaviour which quite frankly is toxic. Please seek help for yourself in the form of counselling as a priority. If you want to support your DW, suggest that she seeks help for herself too as she clearly has many issues that are affecting her.

HomeHomeInTheRange · 21/02/2022 09:29

DW is adamant she loves me and doesn't want me to leave, that she won't ever be happy without me. She wants me to stay, sleep alongside her

In which case she had to take responsibility for HER behaviour, not just blaming you and your supposed personality failings.

You are very hard on yourself. I have a damaging narcissist in my extended family and they would never attribute any relationship problem to their own behaviour!

So what does your DW want? You as resident punching bag?

If you both really want to try again I think you should stay apart while you both have individual counselling.

No one has to subject themselves to being abused, have tins thrown at them etc in order to ‘make that person happy’. It clearly doesn’t make her happy anyway.

What do your adult children think?

Sunseasun · 21/02/2022 10:25

No op you don’t stay because of the comments about her wasting her years. Her life is her responsibility.

I think you really should prioritise counselling on your own and use it to bolster your esteem to leave.

This relationship is very unhealthy and you sound extremely ground down. I don’t care about her tale of woe.

Sunseasun · 21/02/2022 10:27

Ps she sounds like a martyr and a manipulator if that helps.

Notsuchaniceguy · 21/02/2022 10:54

@HomeHomeInTheRange

DW is adamant she loves me and doesn't want me to leave, that she won't ever be happy without me. She wants me to stay, sleep alongside her

In which case she had to take responsibility for HER behaviour, not just blaming you and your supposed personality failings.

You are very hard on yourself. I have a damaging narcissist in my extended family and they would never attribute any relationship problem to their own behaviour!

So what does your DW want? You as resident punching bag?

If you both really want to try again I think you should stay apart while you both have individual counselling.

No one has to subject themselves to being abused, have tins thrown at them etc in order to ‘make that person happy’. It clearly doesn’t make her happy anyway.

What do your adult children think?

The tin wasn't thrown at me, just for a split second I thought it was going to be. DW has said that I should have known she would never physically hurt me and until that moment I would have agreed 100%. And I really don't think that will happen again. It's the emotional wounds we do to each other that cause the real pain.

Adult children don't really know much. Mine are hoping for the best for me and my relationship with them has improved over the years. DWs children I think wouldn't miss me much. As kids they were more resident with their Dad than us and mine with my ex W. We weren't the best step parents but not the worst by far.

OP posts:
ChickenStripper · 21/02/2022 11:05

Too much labelling here - this isn't working and yes of course she doesn't trust you with your AND her history. Life shouldn't be like this. You are going to have to be a big boy and make plans to separate.

TabithaTittlemouse · 21/02/2022 11:07

She’s bullying you. She knows you had a horrible upbringing and she knows that you just want to be loved.

Have you ever had counselling? Individual not couples.

Macaroni46 · 21/02/2022 11:16

OP - what do YOU want?
You keep defending her and making excuses, saying things like I'm sure she didn't mean to throw a tin at me, she won't do it again, etc
Really? From what you've said, I think she will do these things again, or similar. Plus she shouldn't be throwing things in any event!
She is lashing out at you and finding fault with you on the one hand yet clinging to you on the other, using a tale of woe is me trying to guilt you into staying. If she really wants the relationship to work then SHE also has to accept some responsibility for improving things. Saying if you leave it was all a waste of time is plain nasty and doesn't seem like she values your relationship going back over the years. If I were you, I'd suggest to her that you both seek individual counselling and take a break from each other in the meantime. If she really wants things to work with you, she'll invest the time and effort required into fixing herself instead of acting in an emotionally unstable and irrational manner, and blaming everything on you, expecting you to make all the changes.
No more excuses for her now OP. Even as an onlooker it's becoming wearing. She won't love you more for making them! In fact, she might respect you more if you stood up for yourself, told her enough fighting, let's move forward in the way I suggested above.

PastMyBestBeforeDate · 21/02/2022 11:32

It seems she doesn't want a third failed marriage rather than actively wanting to stay married to YOU. And when you row you both let out the anger and hurt. She calms down and realises she's looking down the barrel of the third failed marriage and that scares her so she does what she needs to do to claw it back.
Neither of you are happy. You shouldn't have kissed someone else and you know that. She's scared. But the plaster needs to be ripped off.

Notsuchaniceguy · 21/02/2022 12:22

@Macaroni46 very fair points and well put. No more from me on here now but thank you all, it has been helpful to talk this through and been given a needed 'head wobble' from some of you. I am speaking to an old friend soon who I think will do the same. And yes, therapy for me as soon as I can.

OP posts:
Macaroni46 · 21/02/2022 13:31

Best of luck to you OP Thanks

ChargingBuck · 21/02/2022 14:36

We have talked a lot, almost always about my failings. I have done a lot of reading on here and in various books and we concluded I was in part, maybe fully, a vulnerable narcissist.
ha ha ha no you are not.
Your DW would like you to think so, because it helps her control you even more.

I was an unwanted child. So was DW. Neither of us were loved by our parents.
Listen up - you & DW are absolutely horrible together.
She is addicted to melodrama & berating you.
Your decision to split earlier this year was sound.
Now your wife is Hoovering you back, with suicide threats & ramping up the drama with fake phone calls to the police etc.
lonerwolf.com/hoovering/

You need to extend this time apart you agreed to in January, & use that time to get yourself some serious therapy. Not about you being a so-called narcissist: about you being an unwanted child, the trauma that caused you, & how it led you to accept being so brutally bullied by your wife.

How you manage that practically is another issue.
Can you afford to live separately, or do you have friends you could stay with short term?

ChargingBuck · 21/02/2022 14:38

So from speaking today DW is adamant she loves me and doesn't want me to leave, that she won't ever be happy without me. She wants me to stay, sleep alongside her. What right do I have to hurt someone to be more at peace myself is my question I go round and round with and have done for years.

You are not a sacrificial lamb.
You do not have to prostrate yourself to your wife's abandonment issues.
You are not her therapy animal.
She also needs help - but not from you.
It is simply not one adult's job to stay around being abused just to keep their abuser from being alone.

Wartywart · 21/02/2022 15:17

You have the right to be happy too. Not just your partner. Don't forget that. (I stayed in a relationship that I didn't want to be in for 10 years because I thought it would be selfish of me to leave, and when we did finally split up 'because I wasn't making him happy', I suddenly realised that I also had a right to be happy!).

Gather your courage and leave. You will both be happier in the end.

Momijin · 21/02/2022 15:26

You don't sound like a narcissist but she sounds like a gaslighting toxic person. You would both be happier without each other.

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