Toxic Family Members - What's Best for the Kids

[Lunar27]

Hi. Apologies if this forum is just for married relationships but wasn't sure where to post.

I think my relationship with my brother has come to a head and am mentally prepared to cut off completely. However, my wife has asked me to think about the kids as they do love him and she thinks they need an uncle in their lives. I was initially quite hurt that her first thought wasn't me but perhaps I'm being selfish (knee jerk reaction) and she's right that the kids come first? We normally put the kids first for everything so understand her POV.

Her mum is also toxic and abuses her daily with a drip, drip of manipulative texts etc. It's so stressful but she won't cut her off as she loves her dad dearly. I don't judge as it's her decision to make so support as best I can.

The point of this post! Are we teaching our kids the wrong thing by sticking with toxic family members? We've openly talked to them about these relationships as they can often see the stress/hurt. I've told them that I'd fully expect them to drop us like stones if we were ever as abusive. I'm therefore wondering if we're setting bad examples by sticking with the toxicity. Being girls I'm more conscious that they recognise abusive behaviour and to get away asap when they see it. But here we are sucking it up.

I want to ask them their thoughts, if I were to cut off from my brother, but don't want to burden them or for them to feel like it's on them.

Any thoughts appreciated.

I am very low contact with my brother, probably nc now after he was a Dick (again) last week. He’s a racist sexist homophobe and the dc know that, although he’s lots of “fun” too. Mine are teens now but they have known for about 6 or 7 years that we don’t have a lot to do with uncle x because he’s not nice.
When he had his latest outburst I told the DC about it and they agreed I was right to challenge him - I feel it is especially important for DD to see that you don’t have to put up with shitty bullying behaviour from men, something I wish I had been shown many years ago!

You haven't said in what way your brother has acted and that does perhaps make a difference.

If it's that you have differences of opinion on things like religion, politics, different tastes in hobbies and entertainment etc, but he is generally a good influence as an uncle, living and caring towards your DC - I'd say keep in contact. It's good for children to learn that people can have different opinions but still get along.

However if he's verbally abusive, bullying, racist, sexist, homophobic etc then I would cut him out. Your DC shouldn't feel they have to put up with bullying arseholes purely because they are related. And it's also valuable for them to learn that even when someone is nice SOME of the time, if they are abusive then the right thing is to walk away, because nobody has to put up with that.

Your DW is looking at this through the prism of her own dysfunctional family, where her own DF, who should have protected her, has allowed his wife to abuse his daughter for decades and done nothing to stop it. She is not seeing clearly on this matter.

Thanks. What is it with family members?

Sounds similar though as he's been fun with the kids (late teens, early twenties now) but constantly s#itting on what I do.

I think they'd understand but what is it with family and the difficulty with walking away? We've walked away from toxic friends but is harder with family.

As Hoppinggreen wrote indeed it is important for the kids to see that you do not have to put up with such bullying behaviour from men (and I would just add to that point women as well). It really does the kids no favours at all for them to keep on seeing you people as their parents being so disrespected.

Your children need positive and life affirming role models in their lives; not emotionally unhealthy relatives for the sake of keeping up appearances, societal convention and or family ties.

If a relative is too toxic/difficult or otherwise too batshit for YOU to deal with, its the same deal for your children as well. You need to protect them from such malign influences.

Re your comment:-
"Her mum is also toxic and abuses her daily with a drip, drip of manipulative texts etc. It's so stressful but she won't cut her off as she loves her dad dearly".

People from dysfunctional families end up playing roles. Your wife is mired in her own fear, obligation and guilt and that is also presumably why she has not blocked her mother's text messages/demands; she has been conditioned to put mother first with her own needs and wants dead last. Her own inertia too hurts her as much as you people as her own family unit.

Women like your wife's mother cannot do relationships at all so always rely on a willing enabler to help them; that person here is your wife's father. He gets also what he wants out of this relationship he has with his wife. He has acted here out of self preservation and want of a quiet life along with failing his daughter as a parent by failing to protect her from the excesses of his wife's behaviours. If your wife cops her excesses of behaviour it means he does not. He therefore continues to throw your wife under the bus to save his own skin because he is truly a weak bystander of a man. Its not her fault that her parents are like this and she did not make them that way.

Would your wife be at all willing to see a therapist about her parens here?. Would she read "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward.

@EvenMoreFuriousVexation. I've spent most of my adult life with him s#itting on everything I do. Any accomplishment, however small, he finds fault in. Either that or he's always so negative. I've gone through life quite positively and enjoy encouraging family, friends whenever good things happen. I'm genuinely pleased for people if they've been promoted, achieved anything or enjoy a lavish purchase. My brother is the complete opposite and the kind of person who'd say, "were you the only applicant" if I got a job ahead of 20 people. Either that or if I ever get a new car, "what an ugly POS, wouldn't touch one with a bargepole". He's pretty successful so it's not even jealousy and I'm happy that he's done well.

He's generally fine with my family but on one-to-one WhatsApp he's like an internet troll who doesn't think twice about sticking the knife in, as if to intentionally grind me down or start an argument. It's so draining and my kids have even started to pick up on it now they're older.

@AttilaTheMeerkat. You're spot on with your assessment of my MIL/FIL from just a few paragraphs of mine. I can't judge my wife but she's definitely always trying to be the good daughter in the hope that she'll get a different results. I think she's flogging a dead horse TBH.

Thanks for the book recommendation. I think I could get her to read that more than she'd go to therapy though so will try that. It'll probably do me good to read it too.