End of my tether with DD (20) and having a baby in 2 days

[DappledOliveGroves]

Not sure really where the right topic for this is. Posting in desperation and hoping there might be some sage advice.

DD is 20, nearly 21. Lovely as a young child, did well at school, got great GCSEs. All was great until she went to sixth form college, got in with the wrong crowd, ended up doing drugs, self-harming, skipping college, got glandular fever on top and spectacularly failed her A-levels. Throughout this we paid for therapy, tried to get her motivated to do something in life and generally had a miserable few years.

At 18 we bought her a one-way ticket to Australia to try and get her in a new headspace, away from the twatty people she was hanging out with and to give her new opportunities. She was out there for nearly two years. Most of which was spent partying - no drugs, just massive amounts of alcohol. I constantly bailed her out each time she had to move apartment or needed money for travel etc - probably to the overall tune of around £15,000.

Covid finally hit Sydney and brought about a lockdown which meant she came home in the summer. Still went out partying a lot once home, still drinking massive amounts when she did go out.

I should add that she's worked for years, in hospitality, earning minimum wage but has always had a job since she was 14.

She went to London in the autumn to start a marketing degree. No idea why as she doesn't like studying. Nevertheless I paid the deposit and first term's rent (student loan barely covered a month's rent). She spent her student loan of £2k in 2 weeks (Ubers and booze) and dropped out and left the course. Found a house share, found a job, is paying back the student loan company at £40 a month so will be paying off her debt for years to come.

Has decided she doesn't want to be in London and wants to come back home, do a different course here in the autumn and live at home for a few months before getting a house share with friends. She's supposed to move back next weekend.

Last week she phoned me in hysterics, saying how depressed she was, how lonely, how she'd started self-harming again. I suggested she come back home, stay safe, find a doctor etc. Instead she's stayed in London, spent the whole weekend out drinking with a friend and has now gone AWOL. She refuses to listen to me about her alcohol consumption - she must be drinking 50 units a week as she's out at least 3 or 4 nights a week. She won't do anything I suggest to alleviate depression (eating well, exercise, stopping smoking, stopping drinking). She has no plans in life, no savings, very little responsibility for her actions and is very good at charming her way through life and getting other people to run around after her.

I feel a total failure as a parent and massively guilty that I've not been a good parent to her. I had her at 19, single parent - her father had no role in her life and never paid a penny in child support. I had a disastrous short marriage when she was 8 and split up with him shortly after. I then got very badly depressed when she was 14 and was very ill for months which caused DD massive worry. I was definitely too liberal and open as a parent and let her smoke with friends in the garden and didn't go ballistic when she started doing drugs, on the basis that I'd done similar as a teenager but always got straight As and dabbling in drugs had no effect on me.

I got together with DP six years ago. She and DP get on very well - she adores him and vice versa. She's been involved in our wedding planning and was very happy about the baby until the last few weeks when she's had a meltdown about what this means for her in the family and the fact her biological father is such a useless wanker.

DD and I are extremely close - we speak daily. But her attitude and selfishness are driving me up the wall. I'm 39 weeks' pregnant, baby being delivered in 2 days (section) and I'm here not knowing where DD is, if her phone has been lost (again), how hungover and depressed she'll be as and when she finally appears, nor what the hell she's doing with her life. I wish more than anything that she'd join the Navy and have them get her on the straight and narrow. I want her to stop drinking, sort her life out and listen to me instead of being in this Groundhog Day spiral.

Judging by her last online status she's most likely lost or broken her phone. Which will be maybe the 6th broken/lost phone in 4 years. I'm sitting here in tears, worrying about her. If I'd gone into labour overnight she'd be none the wiser.

She needs to find a job when she comes back home. She'd be excellent at sales or estate agency - but she has no driving licence as refused to learn at 17, despite us buying her a car, and thus a lot of jobs she's ineligible for. She could have got straight As at A-level and had various career options but instead is limited by her poor grades.

I should be here getting ready to meet my newborn and instead am just worrying about DD, if she's alive, if she's been mugged, if her phone is lost, what mood she'll be in and what she's going to do in life.

I just can't see the wood for the trees. I feel so bad that she didn't have a traditional, conventional upbringing owing to my age and issues. I worry she's inherited my depression and anxiety. But I don't know what to do. I want to see her settled, successful and happy. But how on earth does that happen?

Similar story to my friend with bipolar .

You need to step back, you need to look after yourself and your baby. I also think you owe it to your older daughter to spell out what you are doing and why, so she knows what to expect.

Whatever issues she has, she is old enough to start thinking about the impact she is having on you at this vulnerable time.

Don't feel guilty either, because being endlessly supportive (although probably the right thing to do) hasn't helped her much.

Just read everyone’s responses
Lots of asd adhd ,bpd
At the end of the day ,the time to get her a diagnosis was child /teen ,but you were busy with your own issues ,and it’s easy to put her issues down to her childhood .
But I think your daughter needs to see the mental health team.
But she’s 20 ,you can’t force her
But something is very clearly wrong with her mental health
She needs you to be there for her
She needs to come home and be part of a loving family and have the role of big sister and maybe look at gettIng her seem privately for mental health/ diagnosis

Sounds like complex ptsd. Personally I think the best thing you can do is go to counselling yourself, and offer it to her but with no pressure.

Idont actually think you should be putting yourself first with the baby either ,she needs her mum ,just as much as baby does .more in fact as baby has a loving father and she doesn’t

I don't have ADHD - I have ASD. They have a lot of overlaps in the problems they can cause people, often around executive function. You can find some information about what kind of issues executive function disorders can cause here:autismawarenesscentre.com/executive-function-what-is-it-and-how-do-we-support-it-in-those-with-autism-part-i/

Nobody would have guessed I had autism when I was screwing up my life either. Partly because I was very good at masking it (often with alcohol) and partly because it's so misunderstood in women and girls. A lot of people still don't understand why I have an autism diagnosis now, because I don't fit with their idea of what an autistic person is like. Unless you've read specifically about ASD in girls, I wouldn't rule it out for your DD. Doing wonderfully and behaving compliantly at school up until a certain point and then it all going wrong is a classic ASD experience.

I could be totally wrong about your DD's situation; I just wish someone had noticed my struggles a lot earlier for what they were and helped me to understand why I couldn't stop messing up.

I think you have to let her come home. That doesn't mean you have to give her money or that she can come home at all hours drunk. She might actually thrive as part of the care network for the baby, but you have to walk the line between having boundaries and not making her feel less important than the baby - a lot of "I used to spend hours with you asleep on me... one of my favourite things when you were a baby was... this baby is so lucky to have you as a big sister..."

She's going to come home anyway, so I would try and spin it as if she is doing you a favour by coming to help with the baby rather than risk her feeling like an imposition.

Would she do bar work - so she's getting the social part of being out and feeling like she's part of things, but not drinking herself? She's not in the right place to be doing any further education just now, so stop throwing money at that until she finds something she is passionate about or has a long term plan.

Obviously I'm just a random person on the internet, but have you read up on bpd (borderline personality disorder). Your daughter does sound as if she might fit the bill.

And ... breathe.

This moment, now, is your life. Resolutely put the past behind you. Yes, depression in a single mother can harm her children (life-time depressive single mother here) and not all our decisions turn out well. No-one can change it, so put it out of your mind.

You are having a baby. Obviously you must focus on that fact. Your dd will feel usurped, with the complication of being an adult woman herself. Her hormones will be telling her she should be producing the babies and you should be the grandma - even if she doesn't want to listen. Firmly and quietly tell her you love her but you have your hands full at the moment.

It's clear from your opening post how hard you have tried. Your dd is still in need of your love and support. Seeing your baby coming into a family with a caring dad will remind her of what she didn't have.

I feel for you both.

I really feel for you. I can imagine this is not easy.

I wouldn't be too worried about her not having a traditional 2 parent household childhood. It sounds like you were at least there as stability for her whole childhood so she has a good base there to draw on. To call my childhood untraditional would be an understatement. So I get that it can cause feelings of insecurity in a person and she may be feeling those. She might need counselling, but that will only happen when she is willing. Don't bother throwing your money away on it until she wants it.

Letting her smoke/ do drugs in her teens wasn't a good idea but nothing to be done for it now.

I think baling her out needs to stop. I know that is hard as you don't want to see her suffer. But she is moving home next weekend, she will have all her basic needs met. It's not like you are leaving her destitute on the street of London.

I don't know if she is an alcoholic, but she certainly has some serious alcohol issues. Which just from my own experience could spiral into alcohol addiction. I started out as a party girl, although somehow managed in there to get a professional qualification. Some of how you describe her reminds me of stories from women in the start of their alcoholism I've heard of. Do you know anyone in AA? I think a meeting would be great for her, the being about to talk about alcohol abuse (which it sounds like she is doing) without any judgement is very therapeutic. Also AA is more about helping you live a normal life it is honestly something I think tonnes of non alcoholic people would really benefit from! She doesn't have to be an alcoholic just to have a desire to stop drinking.

Also she needs to know she is moving into a house with a new born baby, she cannot be doing anything potentially harm her younger sibling. Like having a house party. Let her know you are there to support her but she will have to be respectful under your roof.

@CatSpeakForDummies I do think, that once she's here and the baby's here, it will actually be a big help to her. I absolutely don't want her to feel like she has no role in the family or that she's excluded in any way and I want her to bond with her baby sister. She's been buying clothes and toys for her and she adores babies and children so think it will be a good thing, albeit with boundaries needed re: smoking/drinking.

She's done loads of bar work. The problem is that any such work inevitably means that they all go drinking together once the shift ends and there's no way that DD would have a soft drink. She is a social animal - she loves people and parties and there's no way she would relinquish alcohol. She also loves being the centre of attention, being provocative, being bought drinks and wrapping people around her little finger. One stumbling block she seems to have is her failure to realise the need for any reciprocity in relationships. She will take, take, take - from me, from friends, but won't give back. It doesn't occur to her to buy Christmas or birthday presents or to give back to friends in any way. She has always got on much better with men than women - I think because she's pretty and charming she can have men eating out of her hand.

Weirdly, in spite of what I've said above, she is very empathetic in some situations. She's always talking and helping the homeless - giving them food, drinks, money. She's great with animals and small children. She's absolutely a people person and can talk to anyone and everyone.

At least this thread makes me feel like I'm not going mad, when every label under the sun and every possible suggestion has been put forwards, which suggests there's no clear cut route or pathway forwards.

I love my daughter so, so much and want her to be happy. Will explore an ADHD possible diagnosis - DD is very willing to have therapy.

@formalineadeline

I worry she's inherited my depression and anxiety.

No, she's has a traumatic childhood and is suffering the effects. That wasn't malicious or deliberate on your part but is what you have clearly described. It's beyond me how you could describe that chain of events and think it's unconnected.

You need to stop viewing her as a "badly behaved failure" and start viewing her as a traumatised young person using maladaptive coping strategies.

It's quite obvious she's drinking to cope with her feelings - lecturing her and telling her to stop isn't going to change anything. The underling cause needs to be addressed and she may not be ready for that yet.

Start by changing your own mindset and your own behaviour. For example, listening without judgement instead of lecturing and instructing.

This x 100.

Her behaviour, drinking & drugs aren’t her problem. They are a symptom of her problem. She needs therapy. She’s mentally ill.

Btw the most patronising, unhelpful thing to tell someone with trauma and mental illness is to “exercise and eat well” to fix it.

She doesn’t need “tough love” & she doesn’t need you being there for her by bailing her out financially. She needs support. She needs to not be pressured to have her shit together & be on a career path you think would suit her. She needs to know that she will not be any less a part of your family once your baby is here.

Sounds similar to a family member of ours, however, imo they just can’t help some of this seemingly random and self destructive behaviour - this family member is asd - it’s hard to get to grips with as in understand and basically it has had to be accepted we can’t ‘understand’ it but support them as well as possible. On the other hand whatever kind of issues a person has they do have to learn to live in society as it is and not cause incredible chaos in others’ lives. This can only be achieved with the right professional support plus - we found - just actually living and getting older helped - more towards age 30 than 20.
What I will add, as you’re worried about her childhood, is that their upbringing whilst not perfect was the most stable (average) of her siblings but the others did perfectly fine - which is why I’m thinking it’s definitely a lot around additional issues she needs help with.
Re the baby my family member struggled massively around prospect of a niece as they couldn’t’know’ they’d live her etc etc - when they met her they understood how much they loved her and were a thousand times better with the baby than ever could have been expected.
Totally understandable all the bailing out and ticket to Oz - it might not have been the perfect way but it’s so hard to do the perfect way or even know the perfect way - it is however difficult to understand from the outside - or if you had experience- but in your shoes at the time you’ve done what you thought right - one day she will appreciate that.
Best of luck OP - I think you have to accept she will need you and boomerang from your home to others for many years yet - but try and also carve out some space - deal with her when you need to but take the space she gives you to enjoy baby. It’s very hard but whilst you might know she’s potentially in bother, going to be in bother, unless there’s something you can actively do, or need to do, at that point then try to block it off - she will reappear needing something and you’ll need to have the strength and energy to deal with that - worrying beforehand depletes your stores - hope that makes some sense.

I'd take a step back. She's an adult now. Stop bailing her out. She has to learn how to adult. I certainly wouldn't give her any more money, but there's always a room at mine (if she follows the rules). She might be bipolar, highs and lows, making unwise decisions. She needs to see a doctor to be referred.

You have to stop enabling her financially to not grow up. The pattern will continue if you just keep giving her pots of cash for her next whim. I wouldn't throw any more money at her education unless it's a very specific course to train for a specific job so there's a clear path to her standing on her own two feet.

I know it might not seem like it but the best thing you can do for your DD is to make her have to forge her own path a bit more.

Regarding friendships/family relationships, I also gravitate towards friendships with men (I mean platonic friendships) because they are so much more straightforward. You can get away with the reciprocity issue because if a bloke needs something he's more likely to say it. Women are more complicated to be friends with.

Take your cue from the fact she feels more comfortable with men because they don't bother with subtlety. Be absolutely direct when you communicate with her.

My sister and I are the same. It's taken years for us to realise it and a lot of hurt along the way. We're now getting on brilliantly because we've both recognised our similarity and instead of treading on eggshells around each other we're doing the opposite and communicating clearly. My mum gets frustrated with us because she wants us to do something but waits for us to work it out and she gets frustrated in the meantime. If she just asks clearly and cuts out the subtlety, we pretty much always say yes and willingly do what's needed.

I agree nothing's worked, but what are the next steps?

Separate out all of the dynamics and prioritise them.

Start with you.

You are about to give birth - that’s the priority. Get yourself calm in these days and moments to focus on a gentle birth and recovering your health afterwards.

Maybe you are triggered back to you own trauma of giving birth as a teenager.

I suspect that’s why you are so emotional right now.

Try to sit with that and know that this birth and your experience of early motherhood this around is going to be very much better.

Your unborn and new born needs you relaxed and calm - not stressed out with cortisol and adrenaline polluting both your systems.

Focus on creating a calm and peaceful home for you all.

You need to rid your mind of your daughters issues right now.

The big picture is likely one of intergenerational and unresolved trauma from your own upbringing, to your daughters upbringing. Throw in a possible chronic MH, ND and/or addiction to complicate the situation and generate chaos and drama alongside a level of codependency and enmeshed relationship with your daughter and it’s messy.

Lots to untangle.

One day at a time.

Focus on the fixing the root causes and the rest will follow.

Focus on you and your baby right now. These days, weeks, months are crucial.

This is not the time for a big overhauling fixing gestures for daughter.

Repeatedly and gently signpost her to MH/addiction/therapy services - it makes no difference what job she does, if she can or can’t drive if she has unresolved issues.

In time get some therapy for yourself so that you can be the change in the dynamic for your own self, for your daughter and for your new baby.

wow, the thing that jumps out at me from your post is that every time she gets into trouble etc she phones you and you bail her out. Thousands and thousands and thousands.

You have said she is good at working and earning money.

So, step one. No more money. Stop enabling this with cash.

Step back, let her know that you love her, and will support her emotionally but not financially.
She is old enough to sort out her lost phone.
She is old enough to decide for herself if she is going to do a course and finance it.
Keep the communication open, and keep letting her know that you love her and that she is stillpart of the family, but start to move this relationship on to an adult:adult relationship.

What happened in your own childhood?

There seems a level of intensity and panic in your relationship with your daughter. Is this a “normal” emotional energy for you? Sort of hyper vigilant and always triggered to react dive in with practical fixes. All well intended but it’s just bailing out a sinking ship with a small bucket. Where / what is the hole/emotional wound that needs tending to once and for all?

@ESGdance not sure anything much happened in my own childhood. But yes, the relationship with DD has always been very intense and still is.

I grew up with parents who dealt with things practically and not emotionally. It was a case of getting on with things and keeping a stiff upper lip which, to be fair, isn't always a bad thing.

Take a big step back and stop trying to fix her life. You have all these ideas of how her life needs to be and how to fix it. Instead, you need to let her play out her life and accept it for how it is. Stop giving her wads of cash and bailing her out.

At age 20, plenty of people are binge drinking and many doing drugs. Not ideal, but pretty normal. I didn't care about eating ultra healthy and exercising and getting settled down at 20. I was drinking and partying, making silly decisions and made some crazy memories. Things were mad and unsettled from 20-23 but I look back now and laugh at it all and love that I had those years. There were unsuitable men, lost phones, self harm (that's a sadder part though to be fair), waking up and not remembering a whole lot. But I learned from it, by making mistakes. I'm happily settled now.

If you're going to pay for anything, I'd say pay for counselling and encourage an ADHD assessment too. She's so typical of an ADHD female. Loves being on the go, chatty, picks up courses/hobbies and drops them, loses things easily. It's all there.

For you, I'd suggest reading up on ways to be emotionally available. Such as validating how she feels rather than going straight to fix-it mode. It sounds like she needs empathy and understanding more than anything else. Let her feel her feelings, tell her you are there for her if needs to talk and encourage counselling.

Also, you may think that people need to drive, but not everyone does. It's not a requirement, not a life skill that everyone needs. You need to let go of all these fixed ideas and let your daughter flourish in her own time. She might learn when she's older.

Just allow her to be herself and sort her own life out. Obviously if she's self harming etc then give emotional support. She'll learn what she wants out of life. She will likely grow out of a lot of the behaviour as she matures. The most important thing right now is her mental health, not her career or driving.

I was about to suggest ADHD, it what turned out to be behind the issues my high school drop out, cant stick at anything, depressed, anxious DS1 had.
He is now medicated and has passed his driving test and is in the home stretch of a two year college course which will allow him to finally go to uni at 24!
He has been negatively affected by all the setbacks he has had and it has not been easy (and won't ever be totally straight forward).
A side benefit is that I blame myself less for how things worked out, much healthier!

I am speaking from a position of understanding, because I'm also a single parent and I can recognise a lot of the issues as I've had them too and made some similar mistakes.

One is that you are overly enmeshed with your dd, you probably know this. Daily or several daily calls is a lot per day and once you have a baby this is going to be difficult. I would go to once a day if you can. Really this should have been dropped down a bit beforehand.

Secondly, you need to stop feeling endlessly guilty- your dd had one loving parent, no money issues, did well at school to a point. She's actually always been in work since 14 so I don't see her as a massive failure at all, I think you need to be pleased she's always able to get a job. You telling yourself it's all your fault and so forth isn't helping her see what's her responsibility.

I'm not sure now is the time for 'tough love', there might have been one a while ago and there might be one in the future, but really you can't pull the rug from under her feet just before the baby is born. I'm sure it's no coincidence she's gone off radar, lost her phone and is self-harming just before the baby is born, this is unconscious but nevertheless a message to you- don't neglect me, don't leave me.

You need to go to therapy to help you separate out from her and stay strong in yourself. It's easy when you are a single parent to become enmeshed with a child, so that your happiness is overtaken by hers (or lack of it) all the time.

I'm not pretending this is easy, but you can't control a lot of things she does, I do think the ADHD might be something to suggest to her, but stuff like her not driving, her not having the job path you'd prefer, her drinking, hard though it is, your worrying isn't changing any of that and that's for her to sort out.

This is so easy to say and so hard to do, but if you spiral when she spirals, it doesn't help at all.

Look after yourself and your baby as well. I wouldn't probably want her living back with me but that's your choice, I'd get her a small flat nearby if you have money for that, or if she comes home, I think it might be very difficult for you to really separate out from her and you will end up overparenting her even though she's 20 years old.

So hard, Op, I'm not saying any of this because I've cracked it all, I also see many of the same patterns in my own behaviour, it's easy to try to compensate when you feel your child has had a hard time and it's hard to accept that you might be over-parenting, rather than just parenting. Unmumsnetty hugs.

How long since you had contact? You could always ask police to do a welfare check they would have their own risk assessments to see if they consider her to be at risk or
Not. She must know you will worry if she’s saying she depressed self harming then disappears with no contact for days. Like you say it could just be she’s lost her phone but does she not have laptop or landline she can use?

I would:

1. Stop calling her every day, it sounds stifling for her.
2. Stop bailing her out. Bar university fees and accommodation, my parents did not give me hand outs. If I ran out of money or mismanaged my finances, I had to come home. I am grateful that this was even an option. It was their way of giving me a safety net without resorting to handouts.
3. Stop comparing her to yourself. Your stable, settled situation at 20 is a lot different to most young people I know, and she may be absorbing these comparisons which may make her feel more of a 'failure'.

[quote DappledOliveGroves]@ESGdance not sure anything much happened in my own childhood. But yes, the relationship with DD has always been very intense and still is.

I grew up with parents who dealt with things practically and not emotionally. It was a case of getting on with things and keeping a stiff upper lip which, to be fair, isn't always a bad thing.

[/quote]
Sounds a bit like emotional neglect?

Were they able to attune to you, help you know who you uniquely are, to self soothe, teach you how to be aware of your emotional state, to process to these emotions and respond to others empathetically and assertively. Or were emotions expected to be repressed?

Not blaming your DPs but you won’t find any parenting, MH or therapy research that champions this approach.

And it’s no surprise that you became the opposite side of their coin - unconsciously and with the best of intent.

Try to seek some balance but have some self compassion for yourself as a teenage mother and knowing you did what you could but now is a time to approach things differently.