How can I repair my relationship with DD?

[SheffieldCrown]

I think it all started going wrong when she was about 6 (she’s 13 now). I’d just left abusive XH, although of course the abuse continued via contact with DC. She was incredibly angry all the time and very violent towards me and her younger sister (now 11). There were other issues as well and eventually she was diagnosed autistic (possible PDA profile) aged 12.

I don’t think our relationship has ever recovered. She thinks I don’t love her. She is convinced I prefer younger DD and will not be persuaded otherwise. Much of her anger is directed at youngest DD, I’d characterise the situation as youngest being bullied and she is very scared of her older sister.

From DDs perspective she would say I’m harder on her than youngest, I don’t spend any time with her, I buy more for youngest, I don’t care about her etc.

From my perspective, DD is very difficult to get along with. Her sense of humour is basically mocking and laughing at others but she has an incredibly thin skin in return and you have to walk on egg shells to avoid upsetting her which will result in anger and often violence. She perceives malice where none is intended. On the face of it, I’m probably harsher on her but it’s because she gives me reason to tell her she’s being unkind, too rough etc. whereas she expects me to scream and shout at youngest for mistakenly knocking something into her.

I am probably closer to youngest because she seeks me out to spend time with and is just easier to get along with. DD prefers to spend time alone and does not enjoy going out or doing things so I find it difficult to know what we can do together (she doesn’t have suggestions if I ask her what she’d like to do).

Just to complicate matters, lately I have started to question whether I myself am autistic. I really find being around others triggers lots of anxiety and I think I’m only truly happy when I’m completely alone. I absolutely hate leaving the house but I force myself for their benefit of course. I find DDs stimming really triggering as well.

I’ve suggested we try family therapy but DD had a meltdown at the suggestion. I have contacted a therapist to help me initially. Aside from this, I have no idea what to do to begin to repair this situation but something has to change because we’re all completely miserable. This is not the way I imagined family life would be

Please, does anyone have any ideas that might help mend our broken family?

I venture to suggest that she may have long term insecurities from the DV you and she experienced.

You sound quite self-aware, OP. Maybe you could see a family therapist even if she won't go?

Hi OP, I feel for you and you are so obviously trying so hard to do the right thing for both girls. I have a 13 year old daughter and even without the added challenges of ASD it's tricky a lot of the time., to say the least. Like another poster has already said, I wouldn't under estimate the impact of the historic DV and think therapy could be really helpful. Has your older daughter ever been seen by CAMHS I wonder? I know wait lists can be horrendous but maybe worth a try? If she agrees of course..

It sounds like she might actually hate herself... it's hard to be reactive and moody and angry and not really know why or have any control over that. I was like this as a child/teenager with my parents, and I felt like I was the worst person in the world but it didn't stop me from feeling so angry. I think it might be best to not do family therapy (she probably fears it will become a pile on) but rather to get her individual therapy and frame it as "I love you so much and see so many wonderful things in you (list them) but I fear you don't see it in yourself. I want you to be able to see how wonderful you are" - be sincere but do not approach it as you're trying to "fix" her - honestly it isn't to fix her anyway, but to help her start understanding her complicated emotions and that she isn't a bad person for having them. Good luck ❤️

I remember as a teenager some of my friends and I liked to get together as a group and watch a movie then talk about the movie after.

This might be one activity that takes the pressure off both of you.

Maybe have a regular movie night once a week for the two of you (after youngest has gone to bed). Make some popcorn and chill out together on the lounge. Ask her if she’d like that and if it doesn’t appeal to her maybe you can both get onto the internet and google mother daughter activities and see if you can find something that you both enjoy.

To make it fair make sure that there is also s special 1 on 1 activity with the youngest too.

Hey I have a very similar situation
Split 2019
Both kids majorly impacted
Eldest having anger issues , now school refusal
And autism assessment last summer

I’m a way to give advice , as what do I know ! But this is what helped

Getting 1:1 time with him , even a short drive or supermarket trip
Trying to pop into his room and check on him so he knows I’m present
Reading (if not necessarily applying !) the concepts of non violent resistance
Learning to intervene more
Calmly when it kicks off
Trying to self care and stay sane
Finding a decent psychologist for eldest

The impact of a split (huge) on top of covid is not to be underestimated

You truly are not alone navigating this

Thank you everyone, I really appreciate the advice and understanding.

I completely agree that much of this is rooted in her low self esteem and as a consequence of the abuse. We have tried to access CAMHS support previously but on the occasions they and other services worked with us, it made the situation worse. She is therefore very resistant to working with any kind of ‘professional’ and absolutely cannot discuss her emotions without meltdown.

I’ve talked the situation through with my adult son and feel a little better about things today. I’ve got an idea for something we could do together so will suggest it to her as a first step. I think I need to build trust and connection before I can suggest therapy so I will keep that in mind as the next step.

I think I need to build trust and connection before I can suggest therapy so I will keep that in mind as the next step

Spot on
And good luck
My sons now engaging
It’s his third one in 2 years

I think I need to build trust and connection before I can suggest therapy so I will keep that in mind as the next step.
That sounds sensible, even with my DD who trusts me a lot it was a big thing getting her to go to therapy, she got to a pretty bad place before she'd consider it. Wanted to suggest seeing someone yourself if you can afford it. If you're in a better place, if you have support, you'll be better placed to help and support her. My DC are all Autistic, a good psychologist who works with Autistic children can help you find strategies to move forward, my son's one has helped over the years directly with his emotional regulation and also with strategies to support him.

Once they've lost control in a meltdown, it's wait for the storm to pass, it's too late for logic or strategies. In our case that means getting me and his siblings into a room behind a shut door. He calms down faster with us away, some children need a support figure to stay close, doesn't work for us. If she's effectively in emotional crisis, which sounds like the case, then she's not in a place to work on this, she's not in a place to respond to logic and discussions. Scaffolding needs to occur around her to reduce the things that trigger meltdown. That might not be the obvious thing, it might not be the thing she's telling you it is or yelling at you it is, it's often not the thing that happens just before meltdown, that's often more the last straw. There are PDA groups and Autism parents groups on Facebook, you might want to read Ross Greene's 'explosive child book's, there's also an FB group around his strategies, there's a world of advice out there. I'd start by tracking things, probably on a password protected device so she can't accidentally read it, write down what you think might have triggered her, in terms of ASD that can be things like unplanned events, sudden changes, transitions, sensory things, new people, an unexpected supply teacher, not something I could put into one post. There are also some great FB groups with Autistic led spaces, even if you just join and read, you can gain a lot and you will find other parents out there having similar issues and advice or support to move forward.

An engaged parent can make a real difference, it's great that you're doing this, it's great your daughter has a loving engaged parent. Good luck.

This is probably really obvious but whenever one of my teens is struggling I fake them a cup of tea or hot chocolate and either leave their room or stay for whatever length chat they seem to want

I think tiny acts of kindness can really help relating . This really helped eso when my eldest was having mh probs - I literally couldn’t do anything other than make him a cup of tea and it did help him and I a bit xxxgood lick you sound like a lovely mum xx

You’re right about rebuilding the connection.

Dcs need positive connections and if they feel they don’t have it, then they might try to provoke negative connections as they’re better than no connections.
Try to make emotional and physical connections throughout the day. Praise, positive affirmations, validation of her feelings, hugs and touch are all good.

Hey OP, sounds like you've all had a really tough time with everything.

I have a DD aged 12. She's autistic with a PDA profile, and so am I.

I mean this gently, but do you understand how she thinks? Have you spent much time researching how she might be feeling and why she's the way she is? When my DC (two autistic DC) were younger I spent a long time on forums listening to adults talk and give advice. I'd suggest you need to hear from actually autistic voices rather than neurotypical parents telling you what they think you should do. I found that understanding my DD and the basis for her behaviour was a very big step.

Also, judging by your description it doesn't sound as if you like her very much. Teens are hard at the best of times, and when you throw autism and PDA in the mix, it's a recipe for disaster.

At times I've worried that I'm not connecting enough with my DD. And I still worry about that a lot. It's really hard with tweens/teens. I read this thing recently that said about teen girls desperately needing your love even more than they know and during the days when it's hard and they push you away, what they actually need is for you to love them even harder. I'll try and find it and post it here because it's so true. Her self-esteem etc is rock bottom and she's pushing you away. You need to show her that nothing changes how much you love her, and that your love for her is unconditional.

Re practical stuff - before you tell her off for something, consider whether she's being mean, or whether she's over-stimulated/not realised that she's been rough etc. My DD is acutely aware of being corrected/told over and is very very sensitive. She hates being put on the spot, even if it's just me and her. Throwaway, seemingly casual comments work much better than direct conversation. You'll need to suggest activities. Open questions like "what do you want to do?" are enormously hard for an autistic child, and with PDA, that's a demand which will feel impossible for her to meet.

Everything needs to be dialled down. No shouting. Calm voices. Help her to recognise dysregulation of moods. Casual praise without making it a "big thing" really helps my DD. Even if your DD is sarcastic/ignores etc it will hit home.

And maybe consider whether she has some valid points. Your younger DD seeks you out and is easier to love, do you think subconsciously you are kinder to her? Less inclined to snap? It's really easy to be defensive but as parents we're humans too, and it's just easier to be around an easier child. Sometimes it's helpful to take a step back and look at your own behaviour to see if you need to make some changes too.

If your DD sees herself as unloveable, unlikeable and she's got a sister who's loving, kind and cheery, then she's going to be telling herself that of course you prefer the sister. And then that's going to be backed up when you - as you admit yourself - "treat her worse".

I would think of something that you could do together. Crafts? Watch a film? Some hobby? I might show my DD something that I saw online and say "oh, I saw this and thought we could do it together?" - and then leave it with her, don't wait/ask for an answer. Give her time and space to mull it over, and then casually say a bit later "shall I order that thing then?" and see if you get a grunted "yes". If you do, that's a win.

It might all sound like hard work, and that's because it is. I very carefully orchestrate my interactions with my DD. I avoid putting her on the spot. Lots of casual praise. Lots of gentle passing touches. Check in with her regularly. Does she have a phone? I've found that WhatsApp messages work really well for my DD. Sometimes that helps us to stay connected even if she's not really feeling like talking. Also, it's helped my DD to say things to me that she finds difficult face to face. Give her time, give her space. Keep showing her that she's loved, even when she's at her worst. Pre-empt any things which could trigger an outburst and where possible, remove them.

I really do get how much hard work this is. I've struggled over the years with a DD and a DS (twins) with autism with differing needs, and then having my own autistic personality chucked in the mix too.

Your DD absolutely needs you, even if she doesn't show it.

@Millicent2022

This is probably really obvious but whenever one of my teens is struggling I fake them a cup of tea or hot chocolate and either leave their room or stay for whatever length chat they seem to want

I think tiny acts of kindness can really help relating . This really helped eso when my eldest was having mh probs - I literally couldn’t do anything other than make him a cup of tea and it did help him and I a bit xxxgood lick you sound like a lovely mum xx

This is a really good tip from @Millicent2022 - this is exactly what I meant when I was referring to the little, seemingly casual gestures that absolutely make all the difference.

Love the idea of time acts of kindness. Also acknowledging that she is growing up and showing her a bit of trust, getting her to have input into decisions, like 'which of these colours to paint the bathroom' or 'do you think we should walk the dog before or after tea?'. Take opportunities to show some respect for her as a person.

It is when we are at our most unlikable that we need to be liked most.
You need to put effort into catching DD being good, and reinforcing the good. You need to say 5 nice things for every bad thing, even if its something mundane and simple or noticing something she is expected to do and does (put a bowl away). It will be hard initially, but the more you look for the good in her, the easier it will be to find the good and the good will start becoming bigger things than that time she put a bowel away.
Reinforcing the good, not only helps you remind yourself that there are likable things about her and the good she does, it also reminds her that she can do things right, that she is likable and good.
If most of your interactions with her negative, she's going to view herself negatively, she needs you to find the good in her so she can find the good in herself.

Make sure you're not treating her as if she were your abusive exH.

She's carrying wounds from the abuse in the home just as you are, but she is not him.

Look on her as a wounded fellow survivor.

This is a really good thread

When my sons at his worst he totally triggers me and reminds me of his dad
It’s the most horrible feeling

But math is spot on
He’s fellow survivor and thanks to his autism he had a far worst time of it xxx

@SpidersAreShitheads

Hey OP, sounds like you've all had a really tough time with everything.

I have a DD aged 12. She's autistic with a PDA profile, and so am I.

I mean this gently, but do you understand how she thinks? Have you spent much time researching how she might be feeling and why she's the way she is? When my DC (two autistic DC) were younger I spent a long time on forums listening to adults talk and give advice. I'd suggest you need to hear from actually autistic voices rather than neurotypical parents telling you what they think you should do. I found that understanding my DD and the basis for her behaviour was a very big step.

Also, judging by your description it doesn't sound as if you like her very much. Teens are hard at the best of times, and when you throw autism and PDA in the mix, it's a recipe for disaster.

At times I've worried that I'm not connecting enough with my DD. And I still worry about that a lot. It's really hard with tweens/teens. I read this thing recently that said about teen girls desperately needing your love even more than they know and during the days when it's hard and they push you away, what they actually need is for you to love them even harder. I'll try and find it and post it here because it's so true. Her self-esteem etc is rock bottom and she's pushing you away. You need to show her that nothing changes how much you love her, and that your love for her is unconditional.

Re practical stuff - before you tell her off for something, consider whether she's being mean, or whether she's over-stimulated/not realised that she's been rough etc. My DD is acutely aware of being corrected/told over and is very very sensitive. She hates being put on the spot, even if it's just me and her. Throwaway, seemingly casual comments work much better than direct conversation. You'll need to suggest activities. Open questions like "what do you want to do?" are enormously hard for an autistic child, and with PDA, that's a demand which will feel impossible for her to meet.

Everything needs to be dialled down. No shouting. Calm voices. Help her to recognise dysregulation of moods. Casual praise without making it a "big thing" really helps my DD. Even if your DD is sarcastic/ignores etc it will hit home.

And maybe consider whether she has some valid points. Your younger DD seeks you out and is easier to love, do you think subconsciously you are kinder to her? Less inclined to snap? It's really easy to be defensive but as parents we're humans too, and it's just easier to be around an easier child. Sometimes it's helpful to take a step back and look at your own behaviour to see if you need to make some changes too.

If your DD sees herself as unloveable, unlikeable and she's got a sister who's loving, kind and cheery, then she's going to be telling herself that of course you prefer the sister. And then that's going to be backed up when you - as you admit yourself - "treat her worse".

I would think of something that you could do together. Crafts? Watch a film? Some hobby? I might show my DD something that I saw online and say "oh, I saw this and thought we could do it together?" - and then leave it with her, don't wait/ask for an answer. Give her time and space to mull it over, and then casually say a bit later "shall I order that thing then?" and see if you get a grunted "yes". If you do, that's a win.

It might all sound like hard work, and that's because it is. I very carefully orchestrate my interactions with my DD. I avoid putting her on the spot. Lots of casual praise. Lots of gentle passing touches. Check in with her regularly. Does she have a phone? I've found that WhatsApp messages work really well for my DD. Sometimes that helps us to stay connected even if she's not really feeling like talking. Also, it's helped my DD to say things to me that she finds difficult face to face. Give her time, give her space. Keep showing her that she's loved, even when she's at her worst. Pre-empt any things which could trigger an outburst and where possible, remove them.

I really do get how much hard work this is. I've struggled over the years with a DD and a DS (twins) with autism with differing needs, and then having my own autistic personality chucked in the mix too.

Your DD absolutely needs you, even if she doesn't show it.

Brilliant post

@SpidersAreShitheads ah thanks - so true can’t underestimate the power of those simple gestures. Also agree whoever said WhatsApp is also good , they can often open up a bit more ver text

Thank you so much for the additional suggestions, they’re all giving me ideas of things to try.

To answer a few points, I’ve done a lot of reading around autism and PDA (partly why I’ve begun to think I might also be autistic). I’ve clearly not cracked it yet but there have been some improvements over the last few years - fewer meltdowns and she’s quicker to calm down when she does as I’ve let a lot of things go and reduced demands. For example, although it worries me sick that she barely goes to school, I don’t argue anymore and just accept that she can’t cope in the school environment. I’ve also given up expecting help from school or any services.

If I’m brutally honest, I don’t like her, although I do love her and of course feel terrible about feeling like this. It’s not that I see her as being like or as my XH, it’s more that she’s very very unkind and hard work to be around. I’m also frightened of her - she’s incredibly strong and taller than me and I’ve been on the receiving end of a lot of physical violence over the years which has taken its toll. I try not to let my feelings show, I speak to her gently and kindly and compliment her when I can. She doesn’t receive praise well though.

I’ll give a typical example of what happens if anyone can shed light on how I can handle things differently?
We were all together watching DD’s chosen programme. At some point, DD starts gently tapping youngest’s leg. I don’t intervene because DD will perceive I’m having a go at her. At some point, while I’m distracted, DD wraps youngest’s head in a blanket and stands on her head while she’s on the floor. Youngest leaves the room in floods of tears which is my first inkling that something has gone wrong. I ask calmly what has happened and DD denies anything happened. Youngest is still crying and DD starts getting angry, screaming at her that’s she’s lying and fake crying (youngest crying seems to be a massive trigger for DD). I don’t say anything because I feel like I will upset one of them but DD starts screaming at me that I never believe her etc. Then she starts battering youngest and I shout at her to stop and get in between them. She then starts chasing youngest around the house and I’m trying to stop her. Luckily she doesn’t get violent with me but starts screaming and crying about how she hates herself, hates me etc. She demands to go to my parent’s house (it’s very late at night) so I have to drive her there. This morning I slept in (I’m so exhausted from this and other things) and therefore late for collecting her for school and she’s now angry at me for that, refusing to go to school. She probably won’t come home for at least a week now. When she does eventually come home, she manages a day or two then this will all happen again. All the while, youngest has to put up with daily physical abuse from her sister which I find intolerable but with no idea how to change things.

To make matters worse, after many years of struggling financially (low paid p/t jobs to accommodate DD’s needs), I was finally in a good place financially and able to afford things like therapy. But, I’ve just found out XH has gone self employed again to avoid maintenance which represents a quarter of my income and I’ve no idea how we'll manage without it. He already owes around £10k in arrears.

Sorry, having a really bad day today

@SheffieldCrown - I don't have lots of time right now, but I feel for you. I know from personal experience just how hard this is. Please don't take anything what I'm about to say as criticism.

There's a few things in what you've said. Firstly, you need to be paying attention if these little incidents are prone to happening. No being distracted or not watching. It's not fair to your youngest DD. It's also entirely possible that your older DD didn't mean to hurt her and is mortified at the tears, as well as it being a sensory trigger (crying is loud and unpredictable). Watch and prepare to distract in a casual, low key way.

You need to learn ways to take the heat out of the situation. With PDA you can't be confrontational in any way or else things will ramp up in the most horrible way.

Walking away from an escalating situation is an acceptable solution.

Shouting never helps. When they get louder, you get quieter. You prepare yourself and keep reminding yourself : quiet voice. It's not just about modelling the right behaviour, although there's an element of that, it's also about adding stress and anxiety to a situation which is what a loud voice will do.

Also, I absolutely wouldn't be driving her to your parents house on her demand. Give her time and space to cool off, don't crowd her. But at the same time allowing her to demand unreasonable responses is not OK. Stay calm and don't engage. She's there now so there's no point in escalating things. But I would send her a loving text to say that you miss her and you are looking forward to seeing her again.

She needs lots and lots of love and understanding. And I think you desperately need some more info and support around autism and PDA.

And just to emphasise, absolutely no judgement here and no criticism implied. It's really really hard work and exhausting parenting an autistic/PDA child.

If you put them on a spot with a question like "what did you do?" "what's happened?" etc, it's going to be really hard to get an answer and you're likely to be met with avoidant behaviour like anger. Try to avoid asking these kinds of direct questions, especially in the heat of the moment.

Re things like being late for school - her reaction is completely understandable. The attention and shame of being late would make that overwhelming.

My DD lies. All the time. And about the weirdest, strangest things that don't give her any advantage/benefit. I know they're lies. I think for her it's about making her feel in control which reduces her anxiety. I don't call her out on them - there's no point. She gets flustered/angry/humiliated if I do. I really do think it's about reducing anxiety. And that's what a lot of autistic/PDA behaviours are.

I'm a big advocate of "all behaviour is communication" school of thought. She's not being naughty or bad, she's just in desperate need of help.

Re the tapping - does she like fiddle toys? It really is about pre-empting behaviour and being ready to distract and divert in a casual way.

I'm sorry, I know this is really hard work. It's hard keeping all the balls in the air all of the time. I think if you understood her more, you'd feel more empathy with what she's going through. She doesn't want to be like this. She needs lots of love, praise and more than anything she needs your help. If she sees the dislike/detachment mirrored in your eyes, she's going to hate herself even more.

Just reading through your post again you seem paralysed by indecision and scared of upsetting them. Are there any autism-specific parenting courses you could go on? We were offered three and they really provided so much insight.

Don't engage in battles. You make a decision and stay calm. You don't try to stop her chasing her sister, you stop her. Not by screaming. You show her empathy when she's screaming. When she's yelling she hates you, it's a calm voice you need, tell her you love her and you're sorry she's having a rough time right now. That you understand she's feeling really angry so you're going to go in the other room and give her some space, but you're there if she needs you.

Preventing incidents really will be key though. You'll need eyes in the back of your head and a list of preplanned diversion tactics.

I speak as a mum who's been through all of this with two DC and it works. Most of the time. And it takes a while.

Also you need to take care of yourself too. You can't be driving around so late you're so exhausted you can't get up for the school run.

And I'm sorry your ex is a shitbag. That's the last thing you need.

Sorry, last thing! The right school setting will make such an enormous difference. It was like night and day with my DS. The threat of school just looming all the time eats away at their resilience, leaving them right on the brink for everything else. Even at the right school it can be extremely exhausting for an autistic child. Although perversely, sometimes they need the structure and struggle more during the holidays!

It's going to take a lot of hard work OP. And you're right, there's sod all support out there. You could try social services - tell them you're struggling and they might be able to help. But that's a route not everyone wants to go down, so up to you.

Good luck and please keep posting. You're not on your own x

Love this post, so useful

@SpidersAreShitheads can you direct towards some good forums?

some Lovely ideas of other little ways to help the connection.

I have recently had a lightbulb moment that I am probably on the spectrum. The many threads on Mumsnet seemed to describe me to a T. It was also pretty obvious that my mother probably was as well. Literally overnight I have gone from having no relationship with her at all to complete and instant forgiveness for the way she neglected us. My brother and sister will never be able to understand her like I can.

Perhaps its worth pursuing your own diagnosis as well, you might get that bond with her that I now have with my own mother? Try this online test as a starting point embrace-autism.com/raads-r/#test The others I found seemed to be aimed at people more on the spectrum perhaps. I scored 103 on this test.

I got a notification that there has been recent posts on this thread so thought I’d give an update.

A few months after I posted, I saw an advert for a local Therapeutic Parenting with PACE course. I can’t tell you how many online courses I’ve signed up to over the years but didn’t complete. I was already following ‘gentle parenting’ techniques but this went beyond that. I learnt so much about attachment and trauma but it also gave me practical tools to build a connection. I discovered I had ‘blocked care’ to protect myself which affected the way I related to my DD. It was a huge revelation that my body language was communicating loud and clear even though I thought I was hiding my feelings and saying all the right things. Once I recognised that, I was able to change.

Things are so much better now for all of us and I tell anyone who will listen that they should do the course!