Getting over abusive relationship?

[Orro]

How do you forgive yourself for staying with someone who treated you badly?

Has anyone else struggled with this?

Between the ages of 23-29 I was in a relationship with a guy who became emotionally and financially dependent on me. He was depressed, but wouldn't see a Dr. Wouldn't work because he was "too good" to get a min wage job, but was happy for me to go out and wash dishes to pay the rent and buy him beer which he "needed" to sleep. I had nothing left to spend on myself. He wouldn't leave the house without me. I wasn't allowed to express sadness or worry. His own burden was too much already, he needed me to be... no trouble I guess.

He was extremely critical and would be angry over minor things. One time he berated me for hours because I'd forgotten the supermarket trolley key was in the trolley we'd been using when I offered it to a lady in the car park. He gave me the silent treatment for two days because of a disagreement over the dishwasher... And then when he began talking to me again let me know what percentage I was at - I like you 50% now, ok you're back up to 75%.

I remember thinking I should leave him when he did that percentage thing. Why didn't I?

I don't know. I thought he might kill himself. He talked about suicide. He would have awful depressed periods for sure. But he also romanticised suicide. Thought he was a poet. Thought society was against him, personally. We moved around lots. We did at least find beautiful places to live.

I didn't leave him because I was naive. And, painfully, because I didn't value myself highly enough. I did eventually break things off, but not until I'd taken a lot of shit. That was 2014.

I don't check my old email account very often. I logged on a couple of days ago. He'd sent me an email late last year. Just 'Hello. I was looking at some old photos. How are you?". I replied saying I'm well, I have a baby now (this baby and my partner are the loves of my life).

I am glad he is ok and not dead.

What I really want to do is tell him how unhappy I was with him and that he was an arrogant arsehole. I never told him what a shit he was. He's looking at photos and presumably reminiscing happily (or else why the email?). Whereas I feel nothing but regret and humiliation.

It's years since I saw him. I feel like I shouldn't still care about this. I shouldn't still check an old email account. How do I let go and forgive myself for being humiliated?

I probably shouldn't email him telling him exactly how I feel about our relationship, right?

I wouldn’t bother silence says more and it will only result in a reply from him, well done on moving on

Don't email him again, block him everywhere.

Op, he was abusive. And he KNOWS he was. But he doesn't want you to know he knows. He will neve admit it and he 2ill never be sorry for how he treated you because he WANTED to treat you like shit. Because he is a horrible human being.

As for why he contacted you again. It's not because of reminiscing at all. It's called narcissistic hoovering. Think of it this way, he is a cat and you are are mouse that got away - and he hates you for it.

You need to stop judging his behaviour against why YOU would act the way he did. He is not you. He is not a kinds ,caring, normal empathetic human being. He is a nasty psychopathic dickhead. He was cruel because he wanted to be.

Make sure this nasty person never gets an 'in' to your life again. Or he will use it to cause you more pain. Dont reply to him ever again. Don't give monsters knifes to stab you with. Delete and block.

@Pinkbonbon yep yep this is what I need to hear.

I know it's something of a cliché but I do wonder if he does have a personality disorder of some kind.

It just feels like such a sad waste of what should have been years having fun.

Why do you keep responding to him I could sort of understand if you didn’t have a partner and a baby but sounds like you’ve moved on so really should stop emailing him

I hadn't heard from him for about 3 years. Before that we'd exchanged emails from time to time but I stopped when he told me that his new partner wasn't as good as me.

Oh, also I have told my partner about getting the email.

Actually @RedCandyApple it is a good question. Realise I'm spamming my own thread here. But yes it wasn't necessary for me to reply was it?

Curiosity? Being relieved not to have to wonder if he's still alive?

It's not that healthy, is it, to still be wondering how he is.

It's not that I have romantic feelings. I think the problem is I mothered him for so long?

Thanks this is helping.

[quote Orro]@Pinkbonbon yep yep this is what I need to hear.

I know it's something of a cliché but I do wonder if he does have a personality disorder of some kind.

It just feels like such a sad waste of what should have been years having fun.[/quote]
Oh absolutely, the majority of abusers have a cluster b personality disorder of some sort on the go. Normal people have empathy so they don't abuse.

Sure there might be some exceptions like addicts and alcoholics who have had their empathy restricted by the obsession. But for the most part, people don't abuse others unless they're evil bastards.

Am I reading it right that you’ve been broken up since 2014 so 8 years? I do think it’s time to let it go, whatever he does now is not your problem anymore don’t let him get into your head anymore.

@RedCandyApple you're right, it's so long ago. It's not like it's always on my mind, although I do think about it more than you'd expect after 8 years. The recent email has made me go over it all again. The thing I'm finding hard to get over is more the fact I allowed myself to be treated that way, you know? I really dislike myself for that.

@Pinkbonbon I tended to put his behaviour, his depression and anxiety etc down to the abuse he witnessed/suffered in childhood (violence at home). Although he never spoke about his mental health being affected by his childhood. He tended to say the depression was just his personality and couldn't be helped.

It's really common for partners of abusers to make excuses like 'oh he behaves that way because he had a tough childhood'. And sure, some of them did, but plenty of ppl from.rough backgrounds don't go on to abuse. And many infact, are more determined to be good people who make something of their lives because of those hardships. So it really is not an excuse. Not for a grown man.

Also common for abusers to claim depression or other mental health issues in order to make us feel we can't speak out against their behaviour. Not to say that they can't be abusers and have depression too of course but qgain, it's not an excuse for abuse.

We tend to look for excuses to make because we assume as a base line that these people love us and don't want to hurt us otherwise, why would they be with us? But the fact is, they are not like us. They want to be with us in order to abuse and hurt us. Like the playground bully does their faverote victim. Once we stop thinking our own morality is the same baseline that everyone else has, we stop being so quick to see good where it is not and let people away with rotten behaviour.

Thanks @Pinkbonbon just rocking baby (he's teething and keeps waking upset) so won't write long reply. Interesting point about baseline morality, definitely something to get my head around.

It took me a long time to realise his behaviour was abusive. That the level of dependence - financial and emotional - was controlling. I broke up with him because the romantic feelings were gone, and I felt suffocated by how difficult everything was all the time, every little thing. I suspected I was enabling him by 'looking after' him. But I didn't frame his behaviour as abuse.

Ok that turned out longer than I was planning 🙂

Block him. Block him. Block him.

I could have written your post, so many similarities.
I found recovery went two steps forward, one back. At work ( new job, new area) I was doing well, felt confident in what I was doing. Then one day out the corner of my eye spotted a guy wearing a leather jacket identical to his. Instinctively I flattened myself against the wall, then when he was out of sight followed where he’d gone.
There were a few episodes like this but I decided there was no point in being scared ( he never found me) and I refused to give him any more headroom. I think you have to close the book of him. You could try burning photos, or anything you have of his. Go to a beach and chuck stones in the sea saying “ the end”. Anything that draws that part of your life to an end. It’s done, you survived it and now you need good times for you.
You’ll get there. He’s the loser, you’re the winner.

2steps forward and one back is my experience too.
If you have no dependents with this poisonous person you are fortunate because you have absolutely no need to hear about him,or think of him.
Be Free.

Oh,& yes you do feel silly and naive afterwards, but that was his fault for brainwashing you into staying with him.
It wasn't your choice,not really,he was forcing your hand.
He would have started early on in the relationship being in control of you, without you realising because they disguise it.
If you question things they lie. They twist,they manipulate.
Don't blame yourself. Just learn from it and keep boundaries in place going forward
x

We tend to look for excuses to make because we assume as a base line that these people love us and don't want to hurt us otherwise, why would they be with us? But the fact is, they are not like us. They want to be with us in order to abuse and hurt us.

I think you're right that it's about having different baselines but I don't think it's because all abusers necessarily intend to hurt and abuse us.

I think quite a lot of people who are abusive are simply so absorbed in their perception of themselves as a victim and their own feelings of inadequacy and weakness and shame that they don't have the ability to give equal weight to other people's perspectives, needs or feelings.

They also lack normal positive mental skills (like being able to delay gratification for a bigger reward down the line, trust another person to return a favour in good time, or put unpleasant memories out of their mind in order to move forward in a relationship).

So rather than all abusers necessarily being malevolent (some are, but I think it's actually quite a small percentage), I think most abusers (particularly emotional abusers) are just obtuse. They don't get it. I mean, they REALLY don't get it. They just think about things differently - that different baseline.

And this can be the hardest thing for a 'normal' person to get their head around too, and why so many people stay in abusive relationships. Their abuser seems normal in a lot of ways, seems utterly convinced of their own lack of bad intent, and often seems unable to deeply grasp what the big deal is for the victim after an abusive act on their part.

They often say sorry after they've been told they've done something wrong/hurtful, but as time goes on, they repeat the same behaviour again, because they don't recognise the point in their thinking leading up to the harmful act where they diverged from how a normal person would think.

This is why abusers need therapy (and can sometimes benefit from it). It is possible to change their thinking patterns, but it takes quite deep work and honesty for them to be able to admit (even to themselves) what they were really thinking in the lead-up to abusive or controlling acts. And until they do that, they can't identify where they're going wrong, and change it.

He's looking at photos and presumably reminiscing happily (or else why the email?).

In all honesty I expect his impulse to check in on you is a way of reassuring himself that you're "okay". Because if he can tell himself that there was no lasting harm done by the way he treated you (and he will know he treated you badly at some level, even if he doesn't fully recognise or admit it), then it can't have been that bad and he can't be that bad... right?

Pp, I don't think any of them have that level of introspection. I mean, I'm not saying none of them recognise they have wronged people. It's just, the ones that do - still don't really give a shit. If they're reminiscing at all, it's happily about how much they got away with. And wondering if you are available for another rinsing.

Thinking 'oh maybe they are feeling guilty, maybe there is a heart deep down in there somewhere that is capable of thinking of how their actions destroyed lifes' again, is just projecting our own ideals, morals and mindset onto them. It's just not there with them. And we shouldn't kid ourselves otherwise. Because doing so, is a slippery slope.

I disagree @CheekyHobson, and that way of thinking permits abuse.
Look at the stats for VAWG. You sound like you are excusing it.
Plenty who were abused as children do not abuse because they know how it feels.

Some people are nasty and they will harm you because they enjoy the power and control.
They are exploitative, manipulative and sadistic.
They don't want to change, they enjoy it.

OP, I'm sorry for what you experienced, I've been there.
He sounds like he has strong narcisstic traits.
He is low on supply and hoovering.
You are out and safe now.
Go no contact.

Oh and I absolutely agree thay they are not all malevolent. But it's basically a spectrum between 'I don't give a shit about anyone else, I just want my needs met' and 'I hate everyone that isn't me and I'm going to ruin lives because it brings be pleasure'. And they all fall somewhere along that scale. Where abouts on it can change throughout their lives but they will never be on the same scale as us, the one that has empathy.

@Moretodo

I disagree @CheekyHobson*, and that way of thinking permits abuse.
Look at the stats for VAWG. You sound like you are excusing it.*

I am not excusing abuse in any shape or form. It is never okay. And the way of thinking I have outlined doesn't permit abuse because - see first point - abuse is never okay.

The only thing it does is open the door to is understanding how abuse occurs and therefore the possibility that abusers can learn to recognise the underlying thinking patterns, understand them and change them. Abuse is not monolithic, it happens for a variety of reasons and at a variety of scales.

If we operate on the principle that all abusers at all scales clearly understand what they are doing right from the get-go, and abuse intentionally, then there is really only one way to deal with them – lock them up and throw away the key. Because if they know exactly what they're doing, understand the potential consequences and don't care a bit in the first place, why would we think they could ever be rehabilitated? Why would therapy and counselling programmes exist for abusers?

I have seen first-hand that abusers can learn to recognise and change thinking patterns of entitlement, rigidity and need for control. They can also learn to develop some empathy, though it is usually more of a conscious practice than an innate sense for them.

@Pinkbonbon

If they're reminiscing at all, it's happily about how much they got away with. And wondering if you are available for another rinsing.

Thinking 'oh maybe they are feeling guilty, maybe there is a heart deep down in there somewhere that is capable of thinking of how their actions destroyed lifes' again, is just projecting our own ideals, morals and mindset onto them.

I disagree, and think this is exactly as much of a projection as you are accusing me of. Outside of certain people who have significant physical neurological differences to the 'norm' and a very damaging upbringing, all people have the ability to learn, change and grow. Most abusers have the potential for at least some improvement.

I disagree that most have the ability for improvement. And you ask why there are programs for reform if they do not work? Various reasons. The government has to be seen to be doing something, even if its something that statistically, is ineffective. Secondly, such programs are often run by organisations who profit from their workshops. Thirdly, because many people are under the same mistaken idea that you can educate respect and basic human empathy into people who never developed it in their childhood. They do not understand the nature of cluster b personalities like sociopathy and npd.

Whilst there are things that can be done to reduce levels of abuse in society, these largely revolve around things like alcoholic anonymous and more support for serious mental health issues. And arguably, courses to help women recognise abusers before it's too late. Advertisements on television to make people aware of how to spot the signs ect...

For the most part, money spent on stopping abusers from abusing is money wasted. Lundy bankroft worked attempting to rehabilitate abusers for years only to find that the abusers would use use classes to learn from one another how to be better at abusing instead!

Are there exceptions? Of course. But for the most part, you're more likely to see a pig fly than an abuser stop abusing. Maybe that sounds defeatist. But personally I have no time to pity bullies and thugs or waste wishing they would magically become better people. Money and time instead should be spent on helping good people love their lives free of abuse. And yes, I do think all abusers belong in jail. If theaw more apt to deal with evil instead of burying it in order to protect the elite, who all too often, are disordered in personality, then the world would be a safer place for all.

*if the law was more apt at

Thank you @Suzanne999 and @WiserMe for sharing your experiences. WiserMe, not blaming yourself for staying because of being manipulated is a helpful point, thank you. One of the things he used to talk about was how much he'd 'given up' for me. He was not from the UK, so he'd 'given up' friends and family in his home country. So therefore it was up to me to make sure everything was OK - money, housing, etc.

I also kept thinking I'd seen him in the street Suzanne999 and used to have nightmares that he'd come back. It's funny he's kept photos because I deleted mine, and got rid of anything physical, when I got together with my current partner. I know he's had girlfriends since me. But you're right about needing to let go.

It does seem pretty ridiculous to be still giving it headspace. It's not like I'm tortured daily. After we split I had a really rocky few years. Lonely in a new town, drinking alone much too much. Won't go into detail as there is no trigger warning on the thread, but I think how I treated myself in those years is parcelled up in the feelings of regret over the relationship and 'lost' years.

@pinkbonbon @CheekyHobson @Moretodo interesting debate 🙂

I don't think we got together because he thought, 'oh here is someone I can control'. We met at work and got to know each other over the course of a few months. He had strong opinions, but at 23 I was drawn to this, to his seemingly different outlook.

Having said that, I was so fucking demure. If I'd challenged him early on over minor things, would he have stayed?

What @CheekyHobson wrote does ring true, for me:

I think quite a lot of people who are abusive are simply so absorbed in their perception of themselves as a victim and their own feelings of inadequacy and weakness and shame that they don't have the ability to give equal weight to other people's perspectives, needs or feelings.

Because he definitely felt victimised. By individuals and by society. Hence thinking 'i'm too good for a min wage job, society owes me more', but just sitting about doing nothing all day while I worked. I'm not sure that was about exerting control over me, not in a direct way... more it was really fucking convenient for him that I'd do so. Of course it was right too because he was so fragile and special he couldn't cope... I could cope for him. When he did find work he managed to mess it up almost immediately by falling out with someone over a perceived insult. He had no ability to let things go. Once he even got into a fistfight with another staff member.

But yes this is enough now and it's time to...well to be kind to myself over the whole thing I guess.

Will close that old email account and concentrate on my little boy instead 🙂I do wonder if I ought to get counselling. I'm just so bad at talking about my feelings IRL!