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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I right to feel this way?

59 replies

Tamworth123 · 14/01/2022 10:53

Sorry, this is veeerry long.

Myself and a guy I knew around from school got chatting via Facebook.

(He had actually dated a friend of mine at school, it was quite a weird situation because he dated her after his brother dated her, the brother had gone off to uni in another country and I don't know if he ever knew about it. But this was 17 yrs or so ago so ..).

Anyway, he's based in another part of the UK, but returns here to visit family etc. sometimes. We arranged to meet up when he was back here for a friend's wedding in Nov. We met up for drinks and stayed out very late one night (it was supposed to be with some other friends of his from school who were also attending the wedding but they bowed out and we went ahead on our own).
He mentioned that his younger brother, who lives here in their family home with his family, was considering emigrating to Oz, where one of the other brothers is altesfy living…. and that he'd hate to see his family home sold outside the family (it's an old farm house) and he'd consider moving back and living there himself (which would work ok because his job involves him working in different places and travelling regularly anyway). This made me think spending time together and a potential relationship developing was more feasible than if he was based in another part of the UK.

During the wide ranging conversation, I asked him if he was single/seeing anyone (he had mentioned nothing about it) and was somewhat surprised when he said he was. He'd been seeing a woman he knew through his social group on and off for 6 months but that they hadn't seen each other for the better part of two months now, that "he knew it was over, she knew it was over", but they needed to have the official conversation finishing it. He also mentioned that their mutual friends told him it wasn't going to work out and he should finish it (I got the impression this was more due to his attitude/behaviour than hers).
He mentioned that the "friendship had grown" with her, he valued the friendship, they'd gotten close etc. but he was not really attracted to her enough for a relationship ongoing.

That night I offered for him to stay at my place when we finally left the drinks venue (because it was v late, the weather was v bad and I didn't know exactly how far out in the countryside his family home is etc. ) but he declined. I think perhaps he thought I was offering a ONS or something like that, I wasnt; tbh I'm not sure what I was thinking.

He stayed in regular contact during the rest of his stay, and invited me to the cinema on his next free night. When he dropped me home, I got the impression he was expecting another invite in/to stay, but I'd had a think about his "situationship" back home and wanted to try to avoid anything sexual or romantic until he was properly single. I just said it would be great to meet up at Christmas when he was due back for another trip.

He was pretty shit at contact when he returned to his part of the UK. He wasn't really initiating it, and was often slow to reply (though always replied). I matched that behaviour after a couple of messages and took as long or longer to reply. He did initiate contact shortly before he was due back in my area for Christmas, and then seemed keen to meet up when he did come back. We met for a countryside walk, and hung out a bit at his family home. We touched on the pace of messaging/replying when he was back home and he said that's he's pretty crap at communication when not in in same place as someone, and that it has caused issues in every relationship he's ever been in (!). He mentioned that I'd been v slow to reply myself and I just said that it was in response to the pace he'd set.

We ranged over lots of topics of conversation, got along v well, he was taking pictures of me at beauty spots etc, and back at his family home, I was finding it difficult not to be affectionate/flirtatious and he was reciprocating.
I was v aware of the situation with the girlfriend back home so I, again, asked outright him about his status, and whether he finished the relationship properly. He said he'd tried to end the relationship, but that she'd gotten very upset, that she asked him could they at least stay together for Christmas & NY because she didn't want to be single at that time of year, especially because of her family situation (he mentioned she's estranged from most of her family) etc etc and so he'd agreed (and that he's "useless", and "tends to stick his head in the sand" about things like this (!!)

I was disappointed & frustrated, felt I should probably stop seeing him during the remainder of his trip, I said that I felt like we should keep things platonic until he had properly finished the relationship; he agreed and said "we'll respect it more".

He mentioned joining him and his brother for a drink on Christmas Eve, but didn't follow through. Then he invited me to join him for drinks on boxing night at a place where some people who attended our school hang out. I was in two minds but thought it was more of a group thing so (and my alternative plans weren't working) so I went. He went out of his way to give me a lift to the venue (left it to come back out and collect me). During the evening he was v much in "friend" mode and replied to a guy he knows who asked was I his girlfriend with "no no, a friend". He was far from being by my side for much of the night, and I was perfectly happy with that because I kept getting chatting to people from school and was enjoying it.

Drinks were flowing, I was increasingly tipsy and he presumably was too and started getting touchy feely towards the end of the night. I decided to join some of the people there for a small house party, he joined it too. The host assumed we were together and he again corrected him when he said "oh so are you two together".
I then decided to go on a small house party of a separate friend of mine and he wanted to come along. When we stopped (in a taxi now because he had drunk too much to drive and one of his brothers had agreed to drive the car he was using home instead) at my house to get some wine etc. to take along to the second house party, he suggested we just go into mine and watch a movie there. I said no to that and we went on to the house party.
We were a bit too late and pretty much everyone at the house party had fallen asleep, my friend chatted with us but was tired and wanted to go to sleep too. He assumed we were together, got us bed clothes for a makeshift bed in the sitting room, and this guy went along with sleeping with me there. By this point i was very drunk, and I imagine he was pretty drunk too. We had minor sexual contact, it was pretty awkward. Went to sleep briefly. He woke up in an apparent tizzie about the car, about where it was, that now he had to get it from there asap as he was responsible for driving family members to a lunch at a cousins house etc etc. I decided to leave with him in the taxi he immediately rang and go back to my house rather than trying to sleep on the floor of a cottage sitting room (with my friend and the others probably not getting up til late due to hangovers, tiredness etc.) It was awkward in the taxi, he was v distracted and when it dropped me off, I turned to wave bye and he was completely fixated on his phone and didn't even look up.

The next day he didn't follow through on a vague invite to drinks with him and some of his family members in a sports club. He had a specialist item of clothing I'd left behind accidentally in his car on the walk that i needed for an activity I was doing the next day so I messaged him and he said he'd drop it around sometime, but it wouldn't be before I left on the activity trip; quite a difference from his previous behaviour.
I went on the short trip for the activity, and came back to my item squashed through the letterbox, no message, and no communication since.
He mentioned he was not sure what he was doing at NY but apparently left my home region without a word in my direction.

From constant messaging (when he's here) and invites from him….. to that , was quite a change.

I messaged him just before NY and said o was surprised he chucked my clothing through the door without without word, and that in general I found his behaviour a bit shit.
Constant messaging (when he's here) and invites from him….. to that, was quite a change.
He replied (after I missed a call from him) with a "never meant to upset/offend you" and other random (to me) bullshit.

Tbh I'm disappointed, angry, feel like an idiot ….

Am I justified or am I to blame for continuing context and letting letting stay at the house party.

Opinions please.

OP posts:
Tamworth123 · 14/01/2022 15:52

(End of her tether).

OP posts:
Tamworth123 · 14/01/2022 15:55

[quote supercali77]**@Tamworth123* yes but he* told you what his mutual friends thought according to your OP. The point is if he were interested and available for anything more you'd hear from him regularly. Whatever's going on I'd move on from him[/quote]
Yes but I think it was true.

And it's not flattering to him so ..

OP posts:
Tamworth123 · 14/01/2022 16:10

This is so long, it could do with cliffs for any further posters. Still not short but;

  • op got chatting to guy vaguely knew from school on fb.
  • met for drinks and cinema in Nov when he was in hometown for wedding
  • asked if he was single (he didnt volunteer info), he said he was on verge of ending on/off relationship
  • no physical/sexual contact (though op suspects he might have given opp)
  • guy was quite shit at keeping in contact when back in his region of uk. He said this is his norm and an issue in all previous relationships
  • guy back for Christmas, met for walk, hang out etc
  • op asked about relationship, he said tried to end it but gf asked to delay finishing til after Christmas & NY
  • boozy night out on boxing night. Guy was platonic until end of night when got touchy feely, insisted on accompanying op to 2 house parties, and had minor (and v awkward) sexual contact
  • guy rushed off in morning, didn't follow through on social invite for that day, wouldnt return op's belongings before op went op on short trip, returned them when op away, no communication, left country with no communication.
  • responded to op's critical msg with call, then sent "didn't mean to offend/hurt" msg.
  • op angry, disappointed etc
OP posts:
Tamworth123 · 14/01/2022 16:15

(Should add, when aware he had not ended his relationship, op said didn't want physical contact etc before finished; guy agreed and said "we'll respect it more". Op took this as sign of interest in a future relationship).

OP posts:
Tamworth123 · 14/01/2022 16:19

The point is if he were interested and available for anything more you'd hear from him regularly. Whatever's going on I'd move on from him

You're right.

I feel like hes a cheater.

I've ended up being his cheating partner, against all my better judgement (too much alcohol and emotion).

He's also apparently shit at keeping in contact if you're not in the same place/convenient, and we wouldn't be for some time (if he even does move back to our home area).

OP posts:
Aprilx · 14/01/2022 17:29

I wasn’t really sure what you wanted from the thread with your replies, so going back to your ordinal questions, yes you are justified to feel disappointed and maybe a bit angry (he led you on), I don’t really think you should feel like an idiot though, we have all had unreturned feelings about somebody at some point, it doesn’t make us idiots.

This man likes you, presumably fancies you and you are nice distraction whilst he is visiting. But he isn’t interested in a relationship with you and I strongly suspect is downplaying the relationship with his girlfriend, he is hardly going to tell you that they are serious is he.

Tamworth123 · 14/01/2022 17:44

@Aprilx

I wasn’t really sure what you wanted from the thread with your replies, so going back to your ordinal questions, yes you are justified to feel disappointed and maybe a bit angry (he led you on), I don’t really think you should feel like an idiot though, we have all had unreturned feelings about somebody at some point, it doesn’t make us idiots.

This man likes you, presumably fancies you and you are nice distraction whilst he is visiting. But he isn’t interested in a relationship with you and I strongly suspect is downplaying the relationship with his girlfriend, he is hardly going to tell you that they are serious is he.

Thank you.

I think I got carried away during his absence, naively thinking that he'd end this apparently "over" relationship as he said he was going to, and be free to date/build a relationship, maybe moving here in time.

(I was undoubtedly too fixated on getting into a relationship in general).

OP posts:
Tamworth123 · 14/01/2022 17:47

Also on places like old i was very wary, skeptical etc but I think I stupidly let my guard down and had a quite different approach because I "knew," him from school (I don't, actually) and because his family was considered very respectable at the school.

OP posts:
Monr0e · 14/01/2022 19:46

In a nutshell, you shouldn't be arranging dates and future planning with someone who has openly told you he is in a relationship.

You shouldn't have any expectations on him texting you as you are not in a relationship with him and he has a girlfriend.

Tamworth123 · 14/01/2022 20:19

@Monr0e

In a nutshell, you shouldn't be arranging dates and future planning with someone who has openly told you he is in a relationship.

You shouldn't have any expectations on him texting you as you are not in a relationship with him and he has a girlfriend.

For the sake of argument, he didn't tell me he was in a relationship; when i asked him if he was, single, he said he had been in an on off relationship, they hadn't seen each other in the better part of 2 months, and they both knew it was over but needed to have the talk.

Fwiw he may have ended the relationship by now or may do so in future.

At the very least i think he'll finish it when he meets someone he more attracted to and interested in, who's convenient/more local.

This doesn't have anything to do with me, it case you think I'm deluding myself.

Oh, and I didn't know he was in any kind of a relationship (ans assumed he wouldnt be) when I agreed tk the first meeting. The third, I assumed hed have dome what he said he was going to the be time he saw his on off gf, so again I didn't think he was in a relationship. After that, the boozy night out was not in any way intended to be a date, it was me loosely joining his group at a school reunion type Christmas night out. It degenerated into a "date", yes, witybakcohol but the intention was not there, and I clearly should have told him to.sling his hook when he tagged along with me to rhe house parties.

An equally or more valid point is why he was arranging "dates" if in a relationship.

OP posts:
Tamworth123 · 14/01/2022 20:21

(I assumed hed have done what he said he was going to the next time he saw his on off gf).

OP posts:
Tamworth123 · 14/01/2022 20:37

has openly told you he is in a relationship.

If you call having to ask him when he's asked you out for drinks, and him saying it's been on off, he hasn't seen her in two months, it's over, both of then know it, and they need to have the talk; uum yeah.

.. he has a girlfriend.

Again, it's not hard to think someone is not really his gf when he describes their relationship as over, and then says she begged him for an extension when he tried to end it... meanwhile he's seeing and going home with other women while back "home". Is she his gf? Is anyone?

Im just saying it would be more accurate to say - you shouldn't have any expectations of him because he's a shit, not because he's in a relationship or has a gf. The way he's acting while (sort of) having a gf says a lot about him.

OP posts:
Monr0e · 14/01/2022 21:38

"The way he's acting while (sort of) having a gf says a lot about him" well yes, it does.

But you are the one who appears to be hung up on him, is starting threads and writing huge posts about him and who is giving him all this headspace.

Now you've decided that actually, he doesn't have a girlfriend, do you think he is acting like someone who wants to make time for you and be with you?

Tamworth123 · 14/01/2022 22:04

@Monr0e

"The way he's acting while (sort of) having a gf says a lot about him" well yes, it does.

But you are the one who appears to be hung up on him, is starting threads and writing huge posts about him and who is giving him all this headspace.

Now you've decided that actually, he doesn't have a girlfriend, do you think he is acting like someone who wants to make time for you and be with you?

I am long-winded, I did a cliffs version because it was so long.

Hung up on him .. not really, disappointed angry, feeling foolish more like. Other posters have been able to say tney understand those feelings.

You, to the contrary, are "don't makes dates with ppl who openly tell you they're in the relationship"... he didn't. "Don't expect texts from someone with a gf"... as I daud is she his gf, he certainly didn't act like she was, and i didn't even know he'd not ended the relationship as he saud he was going to when he next met her, til just becure Christmas.

Your complete focus on the female, not on the male and his responsibility in the situation is notable. Misogynistic as well as rude and patronising.

And you've further demonstrated your calibre with a goady, parting shot along the lines of "aw, does he want you now though, do you think he wants you now?" With the obvious implication not.

You're one of the unpleasantness and least helpful posters on this thread.

Maybe you should concentrate your kind, unantagonistic, empathetic, balanced, wisdom elsewhere Hmm.

OP posts:
Tamworth123 · 14/01/2022 22:09

Now you've decided that actually, he doesn't have a girlfriend, do you think he is acting like someone who wants to make time for you and be with you?

And to answer your question (I haven't decided anything about their relationship; merely observed he doesn't act like he's in one .... and equally pertinent question is not whether he is acting like someone who wants to make time for/be with me, it's whether he,'s potential relationship material to me .. and he has demonstrated he's not.

OP posts:
Tamworth123 · 14/01/2022 22:20

He does not sound very nice, he is not very nice about is girlfriend and is treating you badly.

He is the archetypal Nice Guy TM and I realise I was suckered in (and even my friend who met him briefly at the house party commented on his (apparent) good character) but you're right, actions are what we should judge people on.

It can be v hard ending a relationship when someone emotionally blackmail you (and unlike some posters I do instinctively believe his telling) but what he's doing, with his "I'm useless", and "I just stick my head in the sand" is worse than if he just ended the relationship and stuck to it, and he's not treating people like me (women he's had a fancy for or opportunity with) well either.

OP posts:
AlwaysinaFlap · 14/01/2022 22:23

He will be lying to his GF and he will certainly have no problem lying to you- someone that he has no commitment to . Honestly ditch this guy and find someone else.

MizzFizz · 14/01/2022 22:27

OP, I think the problem is you're believing what he's saying rather than what he's doing. He's saying the other relationship is over, but he isn't ending it. He's saying he's interested in you, but when he leaves town he barely has time for you.

People lie. It's hard for more honest people to accept it but it's true.

Of course you feel disappointed. You trusted him and he let you down big time. I'm sorry you got hurt 😕

But now that you know he is not a man of his word, that his actions don't match his words, consider yourself lucky you can leave him and his hurtful behaviour in the past.

Not all men (/people) are like this. There are many good men out there. Don't waste your time on the liars and cheats, no matter how good they are at it...

eekbumbler · 14/01/2022 22:39

Sounds like hard work, move on. I have to agree with pp - you do sound rather obsessive over it.

Monr0e · 14/01/2022 22:56

And you've further demonstrated your calibre with a goady, parting shot along the lines of "aw, does he want you now though, do you think he wants you now?" With the obvious implication not.

This was genuinely not meant to be goady. More of a look at his actions, not his words message, and try not to be so hung up on him.

But, I am obviously riling you up judging by all the name calling so I'll bow out and wish you luck. Again not trying to be patronising or goady

TheGrinchsDog · 14/01/2022 22:58

He's a player and the hills are that'a'way -->

TheGrinchsDog · 14/01/2022 23:05

I also think you need to calibrate your Shit Bloke Who Lies meter Wink Anyone who is this ambiguous about whether they have a GF or not and anyone who states their relationship is wishy washy 'on and off again' or who says they are staying with someone because 'they don't want to be single over the holidays' is a giant liar with lots to hide.

Sorry OP you were very naive and that is not me blaming you, he has acted like a complete wanker but you need to be less likely to take people at their word and look closer at the behaviours they show.

I do get what you are saying about how you felt like you 'knew' him and therefore were less guarded. It's a good life lesson learned if nothing else I suppose.

Tamworth123 · 14/01/2022 23:22

who says they are staying with someone because 'they don't want to be single over the holidays' is a giant liar with lots to hide.

I appreciate your post and you make lots 9f goodbpoints, but just on a point of accuracy/fairness; i know via the grapevine (Inc his brothers) that his on off gf is considered vulnerable, with family issues (including legal proceedings), and much keener than him than vice versa.

That doesn't mean I'm excusing him. As I said, the way he's behaving toward her is worse than if he just ended the relationship cleanly (and he's acting shittily to others like me too).

OP posts:
Tamworth123 · 14/01/2022 23:24

(Sorry I meant that, that's why I do think its feasible she got v upset and implored him not to end the relationship before Christmas etc)

OP posts:
TheGrinchsDog · 14/01/2022 23:33

@Tamworth123

who says they are staying with someone because 'they don't want to be single over the holidays' is a giant liar with lots to hide.

I appreciate your post and you make lots 9f goodbpoints, but just on a point of accuracy/fairness; i know via the grapevine (Inc his brothers) that his on off gf is considered vulnerable, with family issues (including legal proceedings), and much keener than him than vice versa.

That doesn't mean I'm excusing him. As I said, the way he's behaving toward her is worse than if he just ended the relationship cleanly (and he's acting shittily to others like me too).

My point was even if it is true and confirmed by third parties, it is still a big red wavy flag.

But yes I still think you are being very naive because you believe you know he is telling the truth. I would say there is a high chance you are incorrect and he is a liar.

Even if we take it as fact that he is telling the truth, in the nicest possible way you still need to fine tune your calibration, there were red flags waving anyway and you didn't see them.

I think maybe it's taking up too much head space because of the cognitive dissonance you are experiencing. You believed something to be A and it turned out to be B, now you are struggling to line up thought and reality but are slowly shifting your thinking to B which is a positive step forward.

Chuck him in the bin and don't be drawn in by him in future, even if he tells the truth he's too wishy washy and cowardly as you say to be of any use as a partner.