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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Children’s behaviour after domestic abuse

20 replies

anon2305 · 12/01/2022 09:22

Just wanted some thoughts on this please. I have three children DD aged 13, DS1 11 and DS2 7. Separated from their dad 3 years ago after years of him severely emotionally abusing me and extremely coercive, controlling behaviour and physically abusing them over their whole childhoods. He would most days get angry with them and scream and smack them hard and be out of control. I eventually managed to get him to leave but it was extremely difficult to try and break free after a 20 year relationship which started when I was a teenager which was abusive from the start and I have no family support. DS1 behaviour particularly hard the year after he left and physically violent to me and DD extremely verbally abusive to me, the year after he left was torture but I knew he could never return to actually live in home but children seemed to gradually improve for a while. They all took their fathers side after he left and blamed me for everything despite him being extremely abusive to me and them and me providing 100% of their care. I attempted for them to have counselling via domestic abuse organisation but they wouldn’t engage at all. Had referral to social services via police (after DS1 was particularly violent) but SS took no action, also tried to involve school but didn’t really get anywhere. They gradually started seeing more of their father but he is unemployed and doesn’t have suitable accommodation for them to see him at his home so he comes to my house 5 days a week to spend time with them whilst I am also in house. Children live with me 24/7. He hasn’t been physically abusive to them since he left and is generally not abusive to me now. He’s better behaved now than he ever has been. It’s just fallen into a pattern of him seeing them at the house and it does help as DS1 behaviour very disruptive and his father occupies and does things with him which is very helpful. The children are glad he’s there and we get on better than we ever did before now the relationship is over and I feel in control of how he is to me mostly. He did have an episode 2 months ago of physical violence to me witnessed by the children and I called police. His behaviour has been good since this time though and the previous time he was physically violent was 2 years earlier. I work part time and he doesn’t financially support the children at all.
It feels that over the last several months my children’s abusive behaviour to me has really escalated. DD is verbally abusive to the point where she screams regularly at me, criticises me constantly and rants at me how pathetic and useless I am. It goes beyond ‘typical’ teenage behaviour. DS1 gets angry easily to me and 2 nights ago had a prolonged violent episode towards me where he kicked me, pushed me to the ground, threatened to hit me with golf clubs in his hand/impale me with snooker cue and grabbed a knife briefly. He trashed house, smashed furniture and destroyed lots of my things. He can be aggressive and often kicks or hits me but 2 nights ago was extreme. I’ve tried to talk to him since and said I will call the police if this ever happens again. (I probably should have done at the time). He is frequently verbally abusive, calls me a dumb idiot etc. I do try to discipline him, usually by removing devices etc and I try to talk to him when he’s calm which then angers him and he always blames me for his behaviour. His dad wasn’t present the other night and he generally behaves better towards me when he’s around. DS2 will have short lived ‘tantrums’ a couple of times a week where he’ll kick me and hit me and throw things at me if he gets frustrated but I can usually calm him quickly.
I’ve suggested to them individually about them talking to someone about how they are feeling but they are adamantly refusing and get very angry when it’s suggested. They refuse to speak to anyone and I don’t think any of them will engage again with any help. No help available via GP surgery, also CAMHS locally declining such referrals. Friends were supportive over domestic violence from husband but I’ve found that abuse from children doesn’t seem to get the same level of sympathy and support. I almost feel like friends feel it’s my fault, perhaps it’s true. Every day is horrible, I dread collecting them from school. It’s making me wish I could walk out and leave them but I’m the only responsible parent who can care for them. I feel a useless mother and am probably quite a weak parent after enduring years of severe domestic abuse although I try to enforce discipline and they have a good daily routine. Their behaviour is perfect outside the home and all three would be regarded as amongst the most well behaved in school and academically high achievers, they have lovely friendships with school friends. Externally things look perfect but at home with me it’s chaos. I just feel alone in dealing with the angry, violent behaviour of my children towards me and more importantly than anything I worry for them and their future if things continue.

OP posts:
stupiduser · 12/01/2022 11:37

I have no advice or experience to help you OP but feel dreadfully sorry for your situation that you have managed to escape one abuser only to be living with 3 more. I am bumping this to hope someone who will be able to advise you better than I can xx

Justcallmebebes · 12/01/2022 11:38

I'm bumping this for you OP in the hope someone can give you some advice as I don't feel qualified to respond.

Good luck though and well done for getting rid of your ex. I would advise stopping him having access to your house though for visitation.

LaBellina · 12/01/2022 11:41

I’m so sorry op, no advice other then I would NEVER let an abuser come back in my house again esspecially not if he dared to attack me there again like he did to you 2 months ago. Could his presence have a negative effect on the DC who feel that home isn’t really a safe place because he’s still there? I think this question is so something you need to find the answer for with help of a professional.

empties · 12/01/2022 11:42

Contact Barnardos or local Womens Aid for support - children have also been abused by your ex.

MizzFizz · 12/01/2022 11:53

I'm so sorry OP - this sounds just awful. The physical violence from DS1 sounds very concerning - can you phone around again to SS, GP etc. based on that situation to see if you can get some professional advice/support?

Also, although your kids won't engage with therapy, can you get yourself some therapy? TIn addition to bbeing a source of support for you, it might help you to find strategies on how to approach this with your children.

Lux523 · 12/01/2022 11:59

Thier father was removed for abusing you and your children.

He has then come back and he has abused you again in front of them (it doesn't matter how long ago the last incident was), your children again have witnessed this.

These children believe it is ok to treat you this way because their Dad does and further, after abusing you, he is allowed back in what should be their and your safe space, home.

I appreciate that you are in a very difficult position but this man has set a low bar in his treatment of you, that has been accepted and your children are essentially doing the same thing.

Remove the abuser and then try and work out how to help these children. You sound like a fantastic but very, very tired and drained Mum.

Jellycatspyjamas · 12/01/2022 12:06

The children will have experienced your abuse as a trauma and it sounds quite prolonged, he also abused them which is traumatic in and of itself. They’ve also had a family breakdown which again is traumatic for kids even if him leaving makes them physically safer.

I wonder if the anger and violence from them is flight/fight response, which is a trauma response and out with their conscious control. The episode with your son certainly sounds like that. They won’t realise they’re responding from a place of trauma, because their home life is normal to them.

I’d look at what’s happening before things kick off, are there things that might remind them of the violence in the home (even just a change in atmosphere). Your son is probably better behaved when your ex is around because he knows your ex will be violent to him if he isn’t, you may find him decompressing once your ex leaves because he’s been keeping it together - kids mask a lot when they don’t feel safe.

In terms of intervention/support does their school have a nurture base, inclusion in nurture groups is a low level intervention which they might accept and which might create enough of a sense of safety for them to think about counselling. In terms of parenting, I’d be keeping things as calm and routine as you possibly can which will help their stress levels. They won’t have much capacity for stress without tipping over into fight or flight so everything you can do to reduce stress around the home is a good thing. Can you look at contact arrangements so your ex sees them away from home, and home becomes a fully safe environment for them. Also have a look at Therapuetic Parenting - it’s a way of parenting designed for kids who have been adopted which focuses on strengthening relationships and reducing shame rather than behaviour management. It’s highly effective with kids who have experienced trauma. The temptation is to crack down, set hard boundaries etc but your kids need to rebuild their relationship and develop trust in you again.

There’s no point trying to address behaviours while your kids are dysregulated - they literally won’t be able to process what you’re saying to them. Wait til things are calm and then talk to them from a place of care and concern for them - eg I was worried when you did X, I could see how angry you were, and it hurt when you did Y but mostly I’m thinking you’re struggling to cope with big feelings” or however you would speak to them.

You might find they respond to sensory type activities, eg movement (jumping on trampoline, running, throwing things), having a bath, things that are tactile, fidget toys which engage their mind and body.

It’s very hard because our instinct in danger is to remove ourselves, while your children need to to draw closer so you’re going against your own instincts in caring for them. Have you sought therapy for your own trauma? I’d start there and would continue it as you try to care for your children, so you have space to process the impact on you.

Try to avoid taking a purely behavioural approach, you can’t address their behaviour without considering the impact of trauma on you all.

lilikiki · 12/01/2022 12:16

that sounds awful. I’m so sorry.

I would probably call someone like the woman’s aid for support and advice.

I think unfortunately they’re seeing how their dad treated you, and how each other are treating you and it seems to be accepted that this is an ok way to treat you. Please contact WA or social services or another local charity for some guidance because this is not a life you deserve

BitcherOfBlakiven · 12/01/2022 12:20

As gentle as possible here OP - your children can’t process their abuse, their escape or their safe space whilst their abuser is continually allowed back into their safe space.

Mmmmdanone · 12/01/2022 12:29

So sorry this is happening to you. I am amazed that you let your ex see the dc in your home though. I think this must be confusing for them. Also, you do sound quite dismissive of the fact he assaulted you only 2 months ago in front of them. You are being far, far too accommodating to this hideous man. The dc might see you as weak. Maybe they aren't that happy about him being back in the house and only behave when he is there out of fear, and you get the backlash when he's not there?

BitcherOfBlakiven · 12/01/2022 12:46

DC will be violent, when it’s all they’ve ever known. You finally left him, but he’s still abusing you all.

You need to speak to Women’s Aid, SS and the police as a matter of urgency, right now, today.

MondayYogurt · 12/01/2022 12:54

He is still abusing you and the children.

They are victims, as are you. But they are victims with less autonomy.

You are still accommodating their abuser. He's there 5 days a week. Please talk to women's aid today. Change this dynamic, it's destroying them and you.

heisawanker · 12/01/2022 13:40

Look on the website pegssupport.co.uk

It's for children who are abusive to parents. There are free courses and groups on Facebook. A lot of us in the same situation with children who have additional needs or witnessed abuse.

anon2305 · 14/01/2022 00:35

Thank you so much everyone for the advice you have given me. It is really helpful and appreciated and I need to seriously act on the suggestions to help my children. Thank you.

OP posts:
LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 14/01/2022 07:45

@Jellycatspyjamas

The children will have experienced your abuse as a trauma and it sounds quite prolonged, he also abused them which is traumatic in and of itself. They’ve also had a family breakdown which again is traumatic for kids even if him leaving makes them physically safer.

I wonder if the anger and violence from them is flight/fight response, which is a trauma response and out with their conscious control. The episode with your son certainly sounds like that. They won’t realise they’re responding from a place of trauma, because their home life is normal to them.

I’d look at what’s happening before things kick off, are there things that might remind them of the violence in the home (even just a change in atmosphere). Your son is probably better behaved when your ex is around because he knows your ex will be violent to him if he isn’t, you may find him decompressing once your ex leaves because he’s been keeping it together - kids mask a lot when they don’t feel safe.

In terms of intervention/support does their school have a nurture base, inclusion in nurture groups is a low level intervention which they might accept and which might create enough of a sense of safety for them to think about counselling. In terms of parenting, I’d be keeping things as calm and routine as you possibly can which will help their stress levels. They won’t have much capacity for stress without tipping over into fight or flight so everything you can do to reduce stress around the home is a good thing. Can you look at contact arrangements so your ex sees them away from home, and home becomes a fully safe environment for them. Also have a look at Therapuetic Parenting - it’s a way of parenting designed for kids who have been adopted which focuses on strengthening relationships and reducing shame rather than behaviour management. It’s highly effective with kids who have experienced trauma. The temptation is to crack down, set hard boundaries etc but your kids need to rebuild their relationship and develop trust in you again.

There’s no point trying to address behaviours while your kids are dysregulated - they literally won’t be able to process what you’re saying to them. Wait til things are calm and then talk to them from a place of care and concern for them - eg I was worried when you did X, I could see how angry you were, and it hurt when you did Y but mostly I’m thinking you’re struggling to cope with big feelings” or however you would speak to them.

You might find they respond to sensory type activities, eg movement (jumping on trampoline, running, throwing things), having a bath, things that are tactile, fidget toys which engage their mind and body.

It’s very hard because our instinct in danger is to remove ourselves, while your children need to to draw closer so you’re going against your own instincts in caring for them. Have you sought therapy for your own trauma? I’d start there and would continue it as you try to care for your children, so you have space to process the impact on you.

Try to avoid taking a purely behavioural approach, you can’t address their behaviour without considering the impact of trauma on you all.

This is really worth repeating.
LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 14/01/2022 09:16

Both you and your DC have been through a lot of trauma, there's no way for any of you to even begin to heal from that while he's still coming into the family home. He might feel like a stabilising influence, another adult to help deal with the DC behaviour, in the moment he might feel like a positive presence, comforting in his familiarity, but him being there keeps the trauma happening, means their home, your home, won't feel safe.

As much as your children might love him, he will always be the man that made them feel afraid, for themselves, for their mother, for each other, you can't fix that, you can't make what he did ok by allowing him into their home. You all deserve for your home to be a safe place. They might refuse counseling, but you can still seek help for yourself in relation to what he's put you through and cope with and deal with their behaviour. You can help them by getting support for yourself. You've been through so much, you deserve a safe place to talk, YOU deserve to feel safe, you deserve a home free from him.

I'm familiar with disregulated behaviour leading to physical aggression, though more in the context of SEN. The advice is always the same from the experts, that you need to help your child regulate before the meltdown, meltdown is too late and nothing can be achieved behaviour wise until they're no longer on edge. They need to feel safe first, have their buckets a little fuller with positive and loving things, be a little more regulated. It's hard because you need so much for it to stop and you're so exhausted, and drained from it all, maybe want to wail and sob then sleep for a month and you're still the one who needs to be there keeping an eye and an ear out, providing support, smoothing things over, noticing when things are escalating, using the strategies to help them regulate. I wish there was an easier way out for all of our sakes. That's why even without your own trauma you need support to get through this, even if it's just a counselor to vent too. I know it's not MN like, but I wish you all the best. Focus on the first little step, then the next, moment by moment you get through.

LosingTheWill2 · 14/01/2022 09:46

I agree with all pp that no progress can be made while he still access to your home. 5 days a week is excessive even if there had been no abuse

coffeeisthebest · 14/01/2022 09:58

I really feel for you, please reach out for some therapeutic help. You have partially escaped the relationship but he still has a lot of power in your house. Your children have learnt it's ok to abuse you and have never been challenged on this so they continue. Something needs to give and I think you need space to process and they do as well. Look after yourself and any work you can do right now will only help your children long term to reduce the abuse pattern. It doesn't matter that they are exemplary at masking outside the home, your relationship with them is central.

SnowDropMania · 14/01/2022 10:36

I feel for you. I guess they are taking out their anger over the abuse on the person they feel safe with. I wish you could get help. Might social services be able to help in some way? Did you say the GP can't refer you for help? What about any charities for abused children or children of abusers?

Peppaismyrolemodel · 14/01/2022 11:24

They are confused.
You say to them: hitting is wrong.
You say to them: dad has to go bc he hits.
You say to them: dad can come here and I will accept him, therefore his behaviour is acceptable.

As an adult, you understand the nuances here and can see it is a reasonable set of beliefs to hold together.
But for a child those beliefs together are confusing, more so if they are both traumatised by and trained to accept previous abuse.

Go back to basics:

  • no contact with dad in your house unless all of his behaviour is acceptable to you.
  • bc you are in charge in your house
  • bc your job is to keep them safe.
These are your foundation building blocks for their behaviour.

Then you can start to help them with regulating their emotions and reactions, and then their behaviour.

Finding support is hard, and sometimes agencies are ‘reassured’ if the parent is eager to find help, and prioritize elsewhere. This is wrong, and does you an injustice.

Keep going.

Get creative (and discerning!) and reach out to a range of resources: churches, mosques, youth groups, phone other schools, nspcc.

Keep going.

It is so hard (I know, I grew up with violent siblings in this position).
The best you can do sometimes is simply remain.

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