'setting a deadline' - have you?

[superlola]

I could really use some help and advice. Namechanged as other posts might out me.

Been with DH a LONG time - over 20 years. Four kids. We've had our challenges (bereavements, extended family issues, financial issues) but our relationship has always weathered these - or they have until now.

The past couple of years have been particularly difficult for DH professionally. He's made mistakes and choices that have been really misguided, ones that have negatively affected not just our family income and lifestyle, but also how he behaves - when he is stressed he has a horrible temper and gets very grumpy etc.

He is taking steps to improve things, but increasingly I just feel like I am done, and I've never felt like this before. It seems I can't forgive some of the mistakes he's made and how he takes his stress out on me and the kids and feel massively resentful. Because I recognise part of how I'm feeling might be due to circumstances or how I'm handling things myself, I want to set myself a mental deadline to see where we are in, I don't know - three months? Six months? - with the mindset that if I am STILL feeling unhappy by that date, it might seriously be time to consider if our marriage can continue. It breaks my heart to type that.

Anyway - sorry this is long. Has anyone ever set a similar deadline, and what helped you? I veer between trying to brush everything under the carpet and function as normal and simply feeling like I'll never get past this.

Can I suggest the book ‘Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay’ by Mira Kirshenbaum to you? I’ve just finished reading this, it’s billed as ‘a step by step guide to resolving your relationship’ and it is a really useful tool to help navigate and clarify those conflicting thoughts! You can pick up a copy on eBay for about £7, cheaper than a therapist and a good place to start.

@goody2shooz - thanks, I'll get it.

Absolutely Op no one should live a half life. I think I was more
Irritated with the 'life's too short ' line !
So trite for your very real circumstances.

I hope you both find a way through these tricky times. I am also equally long married . Have also had similar issues although more health related but some self inflicted (results over too much drink in the past - coming home to roost)

Ultimately we needed a third party to help us out. Found an actual psychotherapist versed in relationship issues . It has been well worth it. Feel a lot like I did towards him in the early days ... but only because he really engaged too. That's the important bit. Is he just as invested as you in making it work . ?

@sleepymum50

My post about counselling was about you doing it alone. As another PP said it’s about working out what YOU want.

Then when/if you approach yr DH ref his behaviour, you know how much give or take you are prepared to do yourself for the relationship.

If you decide it’s over, you will know it’s the right thing to do and have no regrets.

Counselling together might seem the right thing to do further down the line, or as someone else has pointed out, he volunteers when he sees that you are ready to leave.

Please do it alone, if you possibly can. There are counsellors available through churches, that is non religious. Many years ago I had some counselling via the Catholic Church, though they knew I wasn't a Catholic. If your husband is abusive, and I'm not sure if his behaviour tips into abuse, it sounds like it might sadly, joint counselling is not advised as it gives the abusive party more ammunition.

@superlola, I'm deeply relieved I left. I found true happiness and have had a very happy life after him. At first I dated loads and went out lots. I'd married young and divorce middle-aged and I wanted to get out there after my divorce and have fun!

I feel sad that I gave him my youth. It meant I lost the chance to have a family. I didn't think I wanted one, but after I found my soul mate I realised I would have liked to have children. But I'm very happy now even on that topic as I can be very selfish with my freedom.

So to answer your question. Ex and I had got into a nasty dynamic. He came home every day slamming doors and being tired and angry and and I'd argue back defending myself. Everything we did socially was his idea, my suggestions for things we could do were always rejected. There's a ton of examples but those will give you a flavour of what I mean. In that last year I just stopped arguing, I'd just say "you simply can't be angry every day and it be meaningful anymore", "I'm not doing this" or "I can see you're angry, I'll give you space" and walk away. I also started making plans for things I wanted to do and stopped agreeing to go to the things I enjoyed the least. I also stopped putting up a front, so when people came over, if they were friends of his and he'd been being angry I'd leave them to it. I'd see friends, and or go to the pub, cinema or restaurant on my own to get away from him. I was becoming happy. If the people we were due to see were my friends/family (rare) then I'd cancel telling them the truth for the cancellation. I stopped covering for him.

We did go to couples counselling, I think he was hoping I'd learn the error of my ways. He chose the therapists and we're in it during this year. When the deadline came I was so scared, so I actually told him in a therapy season, I needed the safety of a public space.

The day we moved him out I sat in our home (which I later bought from him), with a glass of wine, sitting in the dark, quiet, empty house (must of the belongings were "his") and it felt like a salty, spikey sea urchin had been removed from my brain. I didn't know what to do with the peace and gentle space that surrounded me. I've never looked back.

Sorry for the long post. Think I'm going to get a glass of wine to toast my then self!

@dudsville - thanks so much for telling your story It's great you've found happiness since you've left him. My situation is different to yours in some ways - we have children together, he is a good dad, the kids would be devastated if we split etc - but there is quite a lot that I relate to here. Sometimes it feels like we have fallen into a bit of a nasty dynamic when we have conflict (though IMO he's far nastier than me!) I also relate to the 'covering up' element around friends etc. Socially my DH comes across as a fun, sweet guy. I think a lot of our friends would be really shocked if they saw how snappy and nasty he gets.

Yes I saw you have 4 kids. I don't honestly know what I would do, although I also doubt they're unaware of so.e of what's going on between you.

Everyone also thinks my ex is a charmer. His ability to switch between how he treated others and how he treated me was a motivator.

Each of us has to find her own way. What was right for me might not be for you and your family. But you could start with small changes that help you to be a happier you.

In fact, what if instead of setting a deadline you started with what changes you can make to give yourself more opportunity fit happiness? When I stopped engaging in the arguing my hope was that he'd stop too, he had a year to see that I'd stopped. Maybe your husband could learn by your example where mine couldn't.

@dudsville - that’s a really good idea. I think I need to focus less on my feelings of resentment and more on what I can do to make myself happy, however he’s behaving.

If it’s not too personal a question, when you were going through that year, what did you do about your sex life? It’s not as if we were at it round the clock before this bad patch, but in recent months my desire has seriously dwindled. Don’t feel you need to answer if you don’t want to!

It's the Internet, I don't mind, but to be honest I don't remember that aspect that clearly. This relationship ended 15 years ago. My "that's it, you have a year" moment was when he refused sex mid act in an attempt to control my behaviour, and our sex life had long since moved drastically away from what I enjoyed in the beginning to something I no longer enjoyed.
We tried to address it but he never changed in the right direction and it made me cringe with discomfort (after we split he sought prostitutes). He also made a habit of having arguments at bedtime such that i'd then be left awake tense most of the night, so I doubt we had much, there were absolutely no loving moments of any description in that year. It's hard to feel desire in that context. Sounds like you're struggling also to feel a genuine and good connection?

@dudsville - again, thank you for sharing. Sorry to hear you went through all that, it must have been so upsetting and you are so strong to have moved on.

Yes I’m definitely struggling to feel a cconnection with my DH, though I wouldn’t say his behaviour is controlling. In general we haven’t had sexual ‘problems’ but he does have a higher sex drive than me. He would never put pressure on me but I think he feels more emotionally connected through sex, whereas i have to feel connected in the first place in order to want it, if that makes sense?! At the moment I’m so annoyed it’s the last thing I want to do!

It's such a common divide, that we need to feel the connection in order to want sex and they need sex in order to feel the connection, but for this very reason alone he should be focused on connecting with you.

You've got a very full household and I imagine you're spread pretty thin but if you can take a moment to think about how you'd like to be in yourself and then start trying to be that way perhaps your husband can join you on that journey.

@Wombat43

Are you peri- or menopausal age?

I have noticed a decided lack of enthusiasm for fuck-wittery as I age. I'd have put up with stuff 10/20 years ago and now I really don't want to or can't. Sucking of joy out of every situation, tightness, sulking, nope, not going to put up with it...

DH knows I feel like this. It's improved things with the odd relapse.

Oh god, yes to all this!! What I’d like to add as I’ve been on the menopause train for a while, is - there was a ‘questioning everything’ phase which went along with the ‘putting up with zero shit’ phase. Then it all kind of settled. DP is not perfect, we hammered out some issues where he knew I’d just fuck off if he didn’t listen and it’s becoming ok again now. How would he respond to a serious talk and ultimatum regarding your relationship, op? Can he listen?

I set an initial deadline 3 years ago…things have been very similar to you (although we only have one child and infertility played a part). Up and downs, good patches, awful rough patches. Things improved at my first deadline so I stuck it out…set another, and another…had some counselling where the counsellor never said leave but she did say “I think you know what you need to do”. Still stayed…because I loved him and I hoped I could get back the man I fell for who I hoped was still in there somewhere, behind the nasty exterior I was currently seeing. Then someone in one of my Facebook MN spin off groups said “I actually think his behaviour in this circumstance is abusive”. I still defended him and stayed. Months later my friend (who works in a family support role) said some of his behaviours were abusive and controlling. I did The Freedom Programme. I read “Why does he do that?” By Lundy Bancroft. I got more counselling where this counsellor said he’s playing mind games and his behaviours were abusive. All the time I had been asking him to seek help for his mood, his health problems (he’s due a review but wouldn’t chase). Then I reached the point where I finally accepted it was coercive control in November. Got through Christmas (minimal help from him). He ruined my NYE with an argument. Called it a day soon after. Now suddenly he’s seeking all the help I’ve been asking him to get for months (years). I don’t know if I can see it turning around though but at least if he tries we can be more civil for our DC.

@ThisWormHasTurned so now, after at least three years, he’s going to do what you’ve been pleading for. So why didn’t he do it before? Only when it’s going to affect HIM does he start to listen? This would be the nail in the coffin for me

Yes exactly goody2shooz. Funny how me saying we should separate us suddenly the motivation for him to seek the help I’ve been asking him to get help. He’s moved out anyway and I finally feel like I can breathe again. I hope for his sake and our DC’s that he can change but I can’t see our marriage working.

In fact, what if instead of setting a deadline you started with what changes you can make to give yourself more opportunity fit happiness? When I stopped engaging in the arguing my hope was that he'd stop too, he had a year to see that I'd stopped.

I was going to say similar. If there is any part of you that thinks you might be acting differently yourself (and thus partially contributing to the cycle of decline in communication) then make active efforts to be more your old self. Have fun, enjoy time with DCs, plan nice stuff, maybe take up a hobby, concentrate on your own health and wellbeing for a while. Do your best not to get dragged in to arguements. Walk away when he's rude or aggressive.

You will hopefully feel happier in yourself, whilst building yourself up to be stronger to deal with a split if that happens. But you will also know, if it comes to it, that you weren't to blame - that you'd had a positive mindset and not engaged in arguements, and yet still the relationship wasn't working.

It's up to you if you want to put a deadline on that. I think I'd want to talk to him once more, and tell him that I'm not sure our relationship can survive, and have an honest conversation about what either or both of us want to do about that.

Best of luck Op.

'that you weren't to blame' - I didn't word that very well. I meant to say that if it came to splitting, you wouldn't think 'could I have tried harder?'

How would he respond to a serious talk and ultimatum regarding your relationship, op? Can he listen?

I would caution OP that such a talk needs to be carefully approached with a willingness to listen on both sides as no-one is perfect. Going in listing all his faults and issuing ultimatums is going to elicit some form of push back.

OP needs to really figure out what it is that is the key driver behind her apparent unhappiness as she has listed a few things. Bad career choices and angry, abusive behaviour are two very different reasons to consider leaving someone over.

How long are you willing to tolerate being the state of unhappiness you are currently in? Six month? A year? A decade? I think the time to call it today is when you've see that this isn't just a bad patch, it's how things will be from now on and you've done all you possible could have done to change things for the better.