Should you feel sorry for someone who abused you if they were abused?

[Doyouever]

My ex husband was abusive, found guilty during court proceedings etc few years ago.

He blamed his abuse on the fact he was abused by his father and it worked and they felt sorry for him at the time, it got him off really.

Is is right to feel sorry for someone who is like this? I knew this from the beginning of the relationship and it certainly got him off many things towards me until I ended up having a nervous breakdown. I felt sorry for him, he got no help apart from spending hours a day meditating which to be fair got him out of doing any chores but was better then sitting and smoking weed.

I think if he truly understood what he was doing he would have sort therapy but he used to say he didn’t believe in western therapy methods. He still has undertaken no therapy but claims he is fixed as it was all because of his dads abuse.

Perhaps empathy, but not sympathy

No. He is responsible for his actions regardless of his father's

Absolutely not.

This man chose to be abusive.

Many people have appalling experience as kids/teenagers and don't go on to be abusive adults and in fact actively make the choice not to repeat the appalling behaviour that they were a victim of.

I had abusive parents and I would never purposely hurt a child. To me that is a sign or cowardice and weakness to hurt someone who is by definition unable to fight back and who is in your care.

If you are an adult with all your mental capacity then you are responsible for your behaviour.

Yes it's fine to feel compassion or sympathy for them, but generally only once you are out of the relationship with them and sure that you're staying out of it...and also once you've done a good bit of healing and can show the same compassion towards yourself!!

Feeling sorry for them while in the relationship or being the target of the abuse unfortunately means that you are likely to put up with more of it!

Once you're out of the relationship feeling sorry for them etc. can be healthier in some cases, as if the alternative is anger or upset then that often will affect your life more!

I think trauma in childhood skews your way of thinking and being in so many ways, it can be hard to know what a healthy, respectful relationship looks like, and very hard to create one in adulthood. It doesn’t excuse abusive behaviour but it does go some way to explaining it.

I’ve worked in child protection all of my adult life and in every case, the parents involved had significant levels of trauma and neglect in their own childhoods. Very often their care for their own child was much better than they had received, but still neglectful and abusive - they could manage a somewhat better level of care but with no healthy internal model of what a good relationship or good enough parenting was, they just couldn’t get there.

The reality is there’s very little in the way of trauma informed therapy to help people unless you’re willing/able to pay privately and recovery from complex trauma is very hard without long term relational therapy. Not just to process the trauma, but to provide a model of safe, boundaried, heathy relationships.

It doesn’t excuse it or make it ok, but early and ongoing trauma affects every part of a person’s development - not all people who have been abused go on to abuse, but usually there will have been significant relationships in their lives that have been safe, or extensive work in therapy to help them find their way - it doesn’t just happen.

You don’t need to feel sorry for him to accept that he’s still carrying the harm from childhood, you don’t need to forgive or excuse his behaviour. You can still be angry in your own right about what he did. I’d seek therapy to understand what kept you there and to unpick your feelings about it which will allow you to move forward with clarity about what you want for yourself.

I don't know if the abusers, who were abused in childhood, can help themselves. At least not without a lot of work through therapy.

@ElectraBlue do they really have a choice if they acting out of trauma themselves, it is an instinctual reaction for them to behave the way they do. If you don’t know you are abusive then it’s not a choice is it. Obviously there are many different types of abusers.

One thing that always stuck out at court was that they always said he had abusive behaviours.. why don’t they say he is abusive? To me they think he didn’t behave intentionally. This doesn’t matter by the way, it makes no difference to the damage it caused.

I’ve just been thinking lately whether he actually realised what he was doing or not. He obviously saw me deeply upset and fearful but he couldn’t seem to put two and two together.

@Jellycatspyjamas that was a good read. Yeah I’ve had some therapy and it tuned out I didn’t have such a great childhood although no where near as bad. I had a very sick mum who just didn’t give me what I needed. I was always fearful of making her more unwell so I pleased her….I carried this into my relationship with him I was a pleaser. Not anymore thought, I’ve dealt with that, well it’s ongoing but I understand why I was the way I was.

Of course they know.

They don't show up at work and scream and punch their boss do they?

Or having a big fight and hes verbally abusing you and the phone rings or someone knocks at the door and they can shut it off like a switch.

@RantyAunty mine did. Anyone who did something he didn’t like would get it. Even his own mum who he held so high after all she suffered, he would still shout at her if he wasn’t happy. Strangers in the street also if he felt they were giving him a bad face. He wasn’t really scared of anything or anyone, well he’d boast like his dad he was the big I am.

I suggest you read Lundy Bancroft's book Why Does He Do That? Bancroft is a counsellor who specialises in working with abusive men. He tackles this very topic. Basically it's a myth that abuse begets abuse, a myth that abusers use to justify their actions.

My ex had a difficult childhood and he was diagnosed with severe mental health problems, and I used to be convinced that he couldn't help his behaviour and it was just past trauma catching up with him. It took me a long time to recognise the obvious: the only people he treated badly were women he was dating. He was more than capable of courteous, respectful behaviour towards anyone else. Extraordinary how, if he "couldn't help it", it never happened where my friends and family could see. Eventually it dawned on me that someone who has enough self-control to cover his tracks and protect his reputation also has enough self-control not to be abusive in the first place. He abused me because he chose to and he got something out of it, not because his traumatic past made him do it.

To put it another way: do you believe it's now OK for you to be cruel to your partners, because an ex was cruel to you? I doubt any woman would say yes to that, but it's an excuse we swallow for abusive men.

Short answer - no.

I have seen both sides to this. My ex-h has inflicted on our little boy the exact same emotional abuse and distress that he suffered as a child. He has repeated every last thing that happened to him. He admitted he was doing it and had the audacity to say "I know what he's going through because I went through the same" and just kept on doing it. How could you? It was so fucked up. He no longer has contact and I have done everything possible to help my son. He was a grown man, it was inexcusable. If I had not divorced him, I have no doubt that it would have developed into the physical abuse my ex-h suffered as a child.

The other side is my own father who suffered abuse, some of which was of a sexual nature, as a child. He was an exemplary parent. He was loving and giving. He did not inflict on us what he suffered, quite the opposite, he did everything to protect us. The very fact it happened to him made him determined to be a good parent. So while I understand childhood abuse can play a part, I don't believe it is ever an excuse.

@booksandballet I read that a few years ago. It did and didn’t sound like my husband.
I have trauma myself now and a I try my absolute hardest to keep it away. Sometimes when I am triggered though I can’t stop it. For me though it’s more of a fear I don’t actively hurt anybody. I try my hardest to parent well, sometimes I get it wrong, like others I expect. I don’t feel the need to manipulate the children tho. I had a great dad growing up so even though mum was difficult I knew love. He had a great mum growing up, well one who loved him but he witnessed terrible things happening to. When he got older he stepped in and took the beating instead.

He spoke very oddly of his dad. He idolised him, he excused his dads behaviour because he said he was abused at boarding school. He used to then go on to speak about the terrible things he did. His mind must been very confused.

When I had counselling they said he wanted to be loved but he didn’t have the understanding of how love was earned so he manipulated it. He thought buying things meant love and then reminding you of all the things he’d bought. I remember saying love is helping each other, help me with the house and decorating together, help me with the children. Speak to me kindly don’t scream and swear, show me safety etc etc, he couldn’t understand it. He said I wasn’t a normal wife, I was.

Good grief, what hack therapist told you that? It has nothing to do with love. It's about control. Any councilor worth their salt should also know that abusers may buy you gifts so that they can say 'but look at all I do for you. How ungrateful you are' when you call them out on abuse. It is a manipulation tactic.

Honestly I don't think some councilors know shit about domestic abuse.

Tbf you may not have told them everything. But if you mentioned the screaming at you then they should have had a clue.

Unfortunately, its worth noting that a lot of psychos gravitate towards psychology related careers too. So always be careful of those councilors (or anyone in your life) that encourage you to stay with an abuser or to be sympathetic to them.

No. My mum had a dreadful childhood, but has since become an abuser her self, its not acceptable for an abused person to continue the cycle of abuse, and blame their actions on it, they are aware what they are doing so instead of blaming the abuse they should seek help.

I am deeply sympathetic to BIL who had a genuinely awful childhood, did not experience love or normal family life et.

I am also completely uninterested in any excuses for the emotional abuse he subjects SIL to. Unfortunately, she remains sympathetic and makes comments like, "he can't help it". Infuriates me.

I think my experience of court and child services had skewed my thinking. They said he had abusive behaviours. He attended some anger lessons and they agreed yep his childhood causes his abusive behaviours. Said he had plans in place to not react the way he does and that was it. I’m no longer convinced.

Why did the say abusive behaviours and not label him abusive. They always felt sorry for him.

The idea of talking about abusive behaviours rather than being an abuser is to recognise that behaviours can be controlled and come from a place of choice, whereas if you say someone is abusive they can on some level claim they have no control over it. Kind of like abusers abuse, it’s what they do so we shouldn’t be surprised when they do, but behaviour is a choice to act on feelings - so if your behaviour is abusive you have chosen to act in that way.

If we think about trauma - yes someone may have skewed perception of what a loving relationship looks like, and may feel insecure or anxious - those feelings come from a place of trauma. The person can look for support to deal with those feelings, manage their behaviour to be caring and measured in their dealings with others or they can become violent or manipulative. The feelings are trauma related but their actions are a choice. Part of trauma recovering is being able to identify when you’ve been triggered and to manage your behaviour when triggered rather than using the concept of being triggered to justify poor behaviour - if someone won’t do that (very hard) work, they choose to be driven by their triggers.

It’s actually helpful to separate out behaviours from the individual because it recognises that people can control behaviours, even if those behaviours are in some way trauma related.

NO! there is no excuse whatsoever.

@Jellycatspyjamas that makes a lot of sense. Tbh I was not his first abusive relationship , they have all been, but I was the longest and least violent one. Instead it was very mentally and emotionally. He could have worked on himself but chose not to.

If someone buys ridiculous and large toys, and talks really odd things, tells there children they look like them and not their mother and continuously talks about there differences ( I’m white, dad mixed and so is children) then that’s choosing to be abusive and dividing us isn’t it? He has also said he wants the children to know who was at fault in the marriage, that being me.

@Doyouever

If someone buys ridiculous and large toys, and talks really odd things, tells there children they look like them and not their mother and continuously talks about there differences ( I’m white, dad mixed and so is children) then that’s choosing to be abusive and dividing us isn’t it? He has also said he wants the children to know who was at fault in the marriage, that being me.

People like him will never take any responsibility for their own behaviour unfortunately. Everything is always somebody else's fault. My ex-h was like this. Utterly draining. Don't allow him to emotionally abuse your children like this. It'll damage them.