Provocative ;-) but this is most of what you need to know before selecting a man to have children with

[Bouledepetanque]

Once the egg card is played, it's pretty much game over for women.

Well done @FTEngineerM.

Do you think that ALL women are in that position? Or is it just you being lucky?

FWIW I was made redundant whilst on maternity leave. It’s illegal but you know. Didn’t stop them…..

Haha I read the graph as Ear rings 🤣🤣🤣

Can recommend Invisible Women: Exposing Data Bias in a World Designed for Men by Caroline Criado-Perez which covers this topic amongst others. People who talk about "choice" as if women live in a world where equality actually exists are incredibly naive.

I'd be interested to see whether this is actually due to sex, or returning on part-time hours. What would the outcome be on their wages pro-rata if more men went part-time to do more child-rearing duties?

I find many female friends have to take a step down once they have children simply because the top jobs can't accommodate part-time working - they can barely accommodate sticking to full time hours with no overtime because there's always a client "emergency". There's a reason back-office teams skew towards more women (and are usually worse paid due to lower bonuses, no up-or-out promotion paths etc).

And sadly I've known male friends spend longer at the office or going for an after work pint because they know the kids will be bathed and in bed by the time they get back

I think I would revise my original point to say that it's not only partner choice but employer/employment choice that affects women more deeply than men after children.

This thread is a bit personal as well as I'm supporting a friend with 3 kids through a painful drawn out legal battle with an ex husband who compulsively lied to hold on to power and never appreciated her non financial contributions to the family pot and is now hiding assets. She admits she naively went into the arrangement without discussing how money would be shared after her earnings dropped.

I fit right into that graph. Went on mat leave for a year, then dropped down to 3 days a week and did not apply for jobs that would have caused me a headache with childcare.

DH also went part time- 4 days a week once I'd finished maternity leave, to look after DD.

When I got bored to tears with my easy job, I decided to quit and become a full time uni student. (DH encouraged me to go for it) I'm hoping this will lead to a better career when I graduate but also studying for three years works well for childcare, school holidays etc. So being a mum still impacts my career choices.

When I see graphs like this I do feel a twinge of guilt for conforming to social norms BUT I know I am happy in my life. Those early years with DD aren't ever coming back, being with her really was my priority (even if I am socialised to want that, it still made me happy). I'd rather go for what I want then make my life more difficult for the sake of improving women's salary stats.

And I agree that DH's character and values has a huge impact on my wellbeing. What's a lovely life now could have been a prison with an uncaring partner.

"once the egg card is played" is a very odd thing to say.

I went back part time when my little one was 14 months old... the only way it could work better for me is if I was paid the same as before to still be able to have all the time I have with my little girl. Money is great but you can't take it with you and (for me) the time with my child is irreplaceable so whilst it's frustrating that my earnings have dropped, I do have a choice to put her in nursery and work full time if I want to have the same money and opportunities as before. Totally agree the disparity between men and women is awful though but my husband doesn't want to stop working to run the house and have more time with his child, wer lucky he works from home and can spend a lot of time with her as it is..

The phrasing "egg card" is a metaphor to the power women have in their "hand" before committing their body to a 9 month pregnancy (and subsequent years of breastfeeding/nurturing and restricted freedom).

I think many women underestimate the power of their "hand" and give that power away without realising it's significance until after the event.

I thought the graph displayed it well as an abrupt one off event with long lasting impact.

Wow. Lots of nerves hit on this thread.

@Bouledepetanque

I know, I said provocative for a reason, but it does represent "actual" outcomes . It highlights the need to choose a partner who is kind, power-sharing, appreciative of your nurturing capacities since in all likelihood you will lose power in society after childbirth and a high quality partner will reduce the impact of that loss of power.

Are you a man lol?

@Bouledepetanque

I know, I said provocative for a reason, but it does represent "actual" outcomes . It highlights the need to choose a partner who is kind, power-sharing, appreciative of your nurturing capacities since in all likelihood you will lose power in society after childbirth and a high quality partner will reduce the impact of that loss of power.

I’m not disagreeing with you; but if we all waited to have a partner like that the human race would die out.

@Bouledepetanque

Well, assertive women with high self esteem capable of being appropriately selfish seem to make up the responders. I am pleased to see there are so many out there.

Despite that, the statistics seem to indicate there is some awareness raising to do in helping women choose decent partners and retain enough power after children arrive for their lives to continue to feel satisfying to them.

I agree about the previous posts re choosing a sharing partner etc. However it is a big assumption that making more money = selfish choices = high self esteem. I took a full years mat leave, have gone back part time and obviously big pay cut. I am currently in a job that is very steady but I could be earning more. I didn't feel physically capable of going back to work earlier than a year and love that I was able to have so long off, and I'm so glad I'm able to be part time as I'm still so tired and often so unwell with DD starting nursery. My finances have suffered but I've chosen the best outcome for my health

‘It highlights the need to choose a partner who is kind, power-sharing, appreciative of your nurturing capacities since in all likelihood you will lose power in society after childbirth and a high quality partner will reduce the impact of that loss of power.‘

Absolutely- women go part time or take time out to raise the kids and the man thinks he’s ‘keeping’ you - meanwhile you are supporting his career! Before women have kids they really don’t get how inequitable it becomes very quickly!

Posts like yours OP make me wish I'd had Mumsnet as a younger woman.