Reluctant sex

[Toastedteacake47468]

Not sure if this is best on this board or relationships, but here goes….

There are times that I don’t want to have sex (tired, unwell, busy, low mood etc). It isn’t all of the time. Boyfriend tends to initiate sex when he wants it, and if he has decided he wants it then it is basically happening, even if I’m not in the mood. He basically cajoles and nags until I give in. We’re probably not quite at the level of non-consensual, but we’re not particularly far away and I feel like the situation is gradually escalating.

Without leaving the relationship (not an option at the moment), what is the best way to address this with him? It’s making me miserable and resentful (and therefore even less willing to be intimate on other occasions), but I don’t think he realises how much of an issue it is.

Has anyone experienced similar and actually found a solution and been able to salvage the relationship? Or are some men just ‘like this’ and I can choose to put up or leave?

I’ve not discussed this with anyone as I don’t want people we know to have a poor opinion of him.

I think that is adds to my confusion. It took us years to conceive because he was often too tired after work to have sex, and I wouldn’t push or nag if he wasn’t in the mood because I think it’s a horrible thing to do.

I’ve tried hard to maintain an interest in sex because I know it can make you feel awful to be rejected all the time, but there’s some occasions when I just really really don’t want to.

He still seems to enjoy it even if I’m not, which makes me feel quite used.

Be very clear, every time.

"I feel very uncomfortable when I say no to sex and you keep asking. Why do you want to have sex with someone who doesn't consent to it?"

"I have been very clear, but I'll say it again as you are acting as though you didn't hear me - I do not want to have sex."

"If you keep asking, you're effectively pushing me to say yes even though I don't want to. That's coercive and not consensual. I assume you don't want nonconsensual sex?"

I'd hope he'd be horrified at hearing ot that black and white, but unless he has social issues or diminished mental capacity, he knows full well what he's doing which means he's going to either:

A) Be faux upset and devastated and "I can't believe you think I'm a rapist, I just want to have sex with you because I love you"

Or

B) Be furious and defensive and say "I can't believe you're calling me a rapist that's outrageous", to make you feel like you're overreacting.

Two shades of the same emotional manipulation.

Just leave. They don't get better, trust me.

What would happen if you said to him, coldly but firmly, "John, I said no. No means no. I do not want to talk about this again. Stop."

(I think I know, but I don't want to assume.)

I think there would be a lot of sulking. If I used the word rapist I think there would be a combination of upset/furious/offended that @scarpa describes.

I suppose I’m a bit nervous to be very very firm and clear (and stick to it) in case he carries in anyway. He might not, but I don’t want to back him into a corner where I find out how forceful he could be (if that makes sense).

Sorry, I sound utterly pathetic. Everyone’s advice is spot on, and is exactly what I would say to someone else, I’m just struggling to apply it to me, or accept that this is what’s going on.

@Shoxfordian

Boyfriend is a rapist Also your husband is *@HonestlyFFS*

Both of you should have happy lives without having to put up with this shit; take some steps to leave as soon as you can and consider telling the police

Get a grip!!!

@HonestlyFFS I’m sorry that you’re in a similar position. I hope that things get better for you.

Much as I know this isn’t acceptable, I had thought that it was probably not uncommon. I have had similar in a previous relationship but I was younger then and things were less complicated so I just left. Life doesn’t feel that straight forward anymore.

@Toastedteacake47468

I think there would be a lot of sulking. If I used the word rapist I think there would be a combination of upset/furious/offended that *@scarpa* describes.

I suppose I’m a bit nervous to be very very firm and clear (and stick to it) in case he carries in anyway. He might not, but I don’t want to back him into a corner where I find out how forceful he could be (if that makes sense).

Sorry, I sound utterly pathetic. Everyone’s advice is spot on, and is exactly what I would say to someone else, I’m just struggling to apply it to me, or accept that this is what’s going on.

You don't sound pathetic, but read that back to yourself:

you're scared to say no firmly and clearly to your partner because you're not sure whether he might take this from (at best) coerced consent to clearly defined rape.

You're not 100% sure - or, if we accept that we can never 100% know anyone, 99.999999% sure - that hearing you say a clear NO might not 'cause' him to rape you.

That makes me incredibly sad for you, and I hope you find a way to accept that's no way to live.

What do you mean "get a grip" @sunflowerted?

Penetrating someone who has been coerced is rape. Would many people report it in this situation? No, probably not. It's still rape, though.

That sounds awful op. You're scared of saying no in case he does force himself on you. That is no relationship.

You're never going to want to sleep with him feeling like this and him pushing you.

I think you need to spell it out to him, and if he doesn't accept it and change then the best thing to do is to take steps to leave. Look at what you would be entitled to, both from him and in benefits. See if you could up your hours at work or retrain etc.

Having to love with a man who scares you and pushes you into having sex is no way to live.

I feel for you OP and you are not pathetic by any means. But I struggle to see how this could be a good relationship in any way if he believes that when you don't want sex you are "playing hard to get" (? Is this the 1950s?) And that you are afraid if you make it clear you are not consenting he will go ahead and rape you? It sounds as though there is a total lack of communication on a fundamental level and you do not trust him not to hurt you. If you decide the relationship is worth salvaging (not just because you are scared of what he might do if you break up) then you will need professional counselling.

How often are you not in the mood? Are you ever in the mood? Do you ever initiate?

@scarpa

What do you mean "get a grip" *@sunflowerted*?

Penetrating someone who has been coerced is rape. Would many people report it in this situation? No, probably not. It's still rape, though.

While the OP's situation is more gray area, HonestlyFFS's husband is categorically not a rapist.

Hi @Toastedteacake47468 - I can’t see if you mentioned whether your DC is a boy or girl (so I’ll use “them”)
What would you say to them if they came to you as an adult saying the only reason they “consented” to having sex with someone was because they was scared the other person would actually rape or hurt them if they said no.

There are plenty of cultures and countries around the world where women do not have choice in the matter if their husband wishes it.

In countries like India there is no such thing in law as marital rape.

On religious grounds women are obligated to have sex with their husbands when he wants it and when women are told it's their God given duty of course they are not going to see that as rape.

Even if by definition in law it is not consensual.

On religious grounds, a kind and caring husband would not force his wife if there were physical reasons like pain. A cause for the pain would then need to be sought. Psychosomatic pain or trauma and mental anguish is no less real though but it depends on open communication between sexual partners which the op and her husband clearly do not have.

I think this is the crux of the matter.

Op could you email your husband and tell him your feelings that way if you aren't able to discuss it any other way so that you pre empt the situation?

Your mental health is going to be shot to pieces if you don't. There are an unknown number of women around the world who suffer silently with no legal redress whatsoever.

If you live in a country where you do have legal redress then you do have a voice.

Courage op. Hopefully your husband will be a kind and caring man and there are plenty of these men around the world so you do need to be brave and communicate openly with him to establish where to go from here.

Good luck

If you're only having sex to avoid being punished by sulking, silent treatment, strops - that's not consent. That's rape. I had an ex who used to insist on sex and was quite forceful and it took me a very very long time for me to call it what it was.

I'm so sad for you OP you shouldn't have to live like this. I hope you can find your way away from this man - good, respectful men are out there and you deserve someone who doesn't treat you this way

@Toastedteacake47468

I think there would be a lot of sulking. If I used the word rapist I think there would be a combination of upset/furious/offended that *@scarpa* describes.

I suppose I’m a bit nervous to be very very firm and clear (and stick to it) in case he carries in anyway. He might not, but I don’t want to back him into a corner where I find out how forceful he could be (if that makes sense).

Sorry, I sound utterly pathetic. Everyone’s advice is spot on, and is exactly what I would say to someone else, I’m just struggling to apply it to me, or accept that this is what’s going on.

You are not at all pathetic. You are in a really hard situation and trying to figure out what's best for you and your child. You are doing your best. It sounds like you want to leave but it's taking time in terms of the practicalities? You can also speak to womens aid or similar for support/advice or even refuge. With regards to the sex could you try to talk when he's not pestering you say in the morning and try to explain it's not about him it's just that your sex drive isn't matching his right now and you need him to be patient. (It may help him back off while you are figuring things out) or perhaps give a clear reason like headache/sickness etc. it does sound like you need to get out as soon as you can. Stay safe.

I suppose I’m a bit nervous to be very very firm and clear (and stick to it) in case he carries in anyway. He might not, but I don’t want to back him into a corner where I find out how forceful he could be (if that makes sense).

You believe you are living with a rapist. To try to avoid that reality you are trying not to get to a place where you definitively know he's a rapist.

Please please do whatever you can to leave. He's pushier now because he thinks you are trapped with the baby. You aren't.

@HonestlyFFS

Ummm, but extreme. I give in. He does not force and wouldn’t.

If you give in because you have no other option then he has forced you.

If you never ever want to have sex with him it’s probably best to take steps to end the relationship really
As once you have this , realistically you are never going to fancy him and want it again !

The fact that you are scared of him getting angry speaks volumes also

The world and dating apps seem to be full of men who ended up splitting because the ‘sex stopped ‘ or ‘we became like brother and sister’

I don’t understand why (most , not all !) men are so fixated on their dicks but they clearly and indisputably are
It’s also one of life’s bitter pills that most women struggle with feeling sexual when they are rearing small children , but again we do as we are knackered

Either way throw this one back , and I’d try and make steps towards independence

Let him try and get his fix on tinder as a single man frankly

It gets worse. I was in a similar position. I developed vaginismus because I felt I had no voice to prevent it from happening so my body tried instead only I was so desperate to please him because I was afraid of the sulks, the silent treatment, the slammed doors etc I let him do it anyway. I would be trying not to cry from the pain then delirious from happiness because I endured it for him and us and fulfilled the only duty that he really cared about and he would love me again for a few days before the cycle kicked off again. It reached a point where I just couldn't do it anymore, if I turned him down I would want to hurt myself because he made it such a condition of his affection and love. If I had unwanted sex it hurt and I felt violated. Leaving became the only option although it took 6 months to do.

I found a new man who is amazing. Never sulked, respects all my weird and wonderful boundaries that I have because of what my ex did to me and views my sexual needs as high if not higher than his own. We were sexless for a few years due to my past and he never complained once. My bed feels like a safe space again which I cherish deeply.

It sounds like you are planning to leave and that you are scared of what he might do. I expect that fear comes from your gut and instinct and it would be wise to listen it. Could you call women's aid, they may be able to help with planning and risk assessment. They were very understanding when I approached them as my ex was never overtly physical but was sexually coercive.

My ex used to nag for sex. Sometimes I'd give in for an easy life but doing so sickened me and killed any sexual desire I had for him.

Even when I'd said no I'd sometimes wake up in the night with his fingers inside me. I told him it was sexual assault to finger an unconscious woman who has already clearly turned you down and he was OUTRAGED. How dare I make him feel like a rapist? I was sick in the head, he only wanted to love me.

You can't fix men like this, you can only leave them.