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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Brother full of rage

21 replies

Angrybrother · 26/12/2021 19:13

We are all adults with our own families except for DB who is chronically single. He hosted Christmas dinner yesterday in his new home and went to a lot of trouble. But he was so so stressed, shouting at all of us as soon as we walked through the door.
Eg I arrived and parked outside front door of building. Lashing rain and we had bags of food/gifts so I phoned him to buzz us in. He snapped that I’d parked in the wrong place and should move to the rear door. But I pointed out that we were in a public space close to the front door, unlike the other spot where we’d have to cross a car park. He shouted at me to do what I liked and hung up. Rang him back and said, are you going to buzz us in or not? He said he was too busy cooking. I was angry now and said in that case we’d go home. I then heard him shouting angrily at DF to open the door. Seconds later DF opened the door and whispered at me to be tolerant as DB was very stressed.
I had checked with him if we could bring Ddog rather than leave him alone all evening. Otherwise our visit would have to be shorter. He was reluctant but said Ddog could come if he was quiet. I had dropped DH and Ddog off a couple of miles away to finish the journey on foot to tire out Ddog. DB asked where they were, then shouted at me in front of the DC because we’d be bringing a wet dog into his home. Said Ddog couldn’t come in. Again I was angry and said we’d go home. DF begged me not to. We ended up leaving Ddog locked in the car.
There were other incidents throughout the evening, although things became calmer as dinner was served (and Ddog was later invited in). Eg a nephew asked “what’s this?” when DB handed him a sorbet and instead of just answering him DB snapped “why don’t you eat it and see”.
He is always very very stressed and we have worried about him in the past. But in recent years it has become literally impossible to have any kind of conversation with him without him becoming enraged. I’m no saint and I lose my temper easily too. But not to the extent he does. If someone said to me “I like this soup you’ve made, how did you make it?” I would answer the question, not say “It’s soup for fuck’s sake. Why do you want to know?” If someone asked me “How’s work going?” I wouldn’t reply, “Oh for God’s sake can’t you think of anything interesting to say?”. If someone’s young DC accidentally spilled water I wouldn’t snap at them for being so clumsy. It’s on and on and on.
I have begun to think he hates me as he is unable to be in the room with me for more than a few minutes without taking my head off for the simplest thing - sometimes he actually goes white with rage. I’m not afraid of him at all but the walking on eggshells makes me stressed, anxious, angry and sad.
We see each other maybe every 2 months and make a similar effort to visit/keep in touch - it’s not one-sided. He can be incredibly kind and generous and is very fond of my DC. I know he would drop everything to help if we were ever in trouble. But I think he likes the idea of us more than the reality. He and I used to get on extremely well as children. But no more.
DF worries about him - as do I; I think he is a suicide risk - not acutely but demographically he ticks a lot of boxes. As a result DF tiptoes around him. DB treats him like shit at times. Then I know he regrets it and is filled with remorse.
Part of me wants to just see much much less of him. It is hard to go on seeing someone who I think really does hate me. 8 times out of every 10 I see him there’s an issue.
Just a rant. Thanks for reading.

OP posts:
Glindaswand · 26/12/2021 20:04

Well he sounds dreadful. He needs to sort his behaviour.

You & dad are treading on eggshells round him and the suicide thing is holding you all at ransom even if it’s just a worry that you have.

I say this as someone who has a brother who is a total arse in this way. He learnt from my dad to behave like this, dark moods & a patriarchal hierarchy. 12 years younger & attempts to parent me. I have just disengaged - civil for my parents but grey rock completely.

I find meal times are way too intense so I stick to cups of tea only for visits & ‘o dear’ or insert other beige statement in return to arsey awfulness.

My brother has improved slightly now that I don’t react to him

MordenLarch · 26/12/2021 20:29

I’m sorry you’ve had this - it sounds like horrendous behaviour.

My brother is a complete arsehole. Goes silent, refuses to see/talk to me for years at a time etc. Shouted all sorts of awful things at me after my mum’s funeral last week. I’m just going to grey rock as well from now on. It’s not worth the energy and upset.

Livelovebehappy · 26/12/2021 23:15

Same here. My brother is an arse and loses his shit at the slightest thing (he’s single, has never been married, and no kids). Ive rowed with him a few times about his behaviour, he then cuts me off, and i end up contacting him to make the peace. Just for family relations really, because our fallouts have a negative effect on all our family. If he wasn’t family I would have cut him out of my life years ago, but the risk to the relationship with my dm and other sibling is just too great. My dm won’t have a bad word said about him. No advice to offer op, but just to say I know how you feel, and can totally empathise. .

Geppili · 26/12/2021 23:17

Is he an addict?

Angrybrother · 27/12/2021 08:23

Thanks for the replies. It seems I’m not alone. @MordenLarch sorry to hear about your mum and the row at the funeral. How upsetting and I could definitely see that happening with us.
He’s not an addict @Geppili.
I’ve wondered if he’s had some episode of abuse that caused him to change from the happy kid he was into who he is now. I tried to ask him at one point in a roundabout way but he said there was nothing.

OP posts:
MissyB1 · 27/12/2021 08:30

He doesn’t hate you - but he will almost certainly hate himself. He’s got some form of mental illness by the sounds of it. He needs therapy, but I suspect he wouldn’t want to hear it. Has anyone ever talked to him about his anger issues/ anxiety? He’s not going to change (and probably couldn’t even if he tried) without professional help.

Thatginismine · 27/12/2021 08:38

Does he use steroids? Sounds like roid rage imho

Pegasussnail · 27/12/2021 08:46

It's very sad. Could you go much lower contact?

Ohpulltheotherone · 27/12/2021 08:52

@MissyB1

He doesn’t hate you - but he will almost certainly hate himself. He’s got some form of mental illness by the sounds of it. He needs therapy, but I suspect he wouldn’t want to hear it. Has anyone ever talked to him about his anger issues/ anxiety? He’s not going to change (and probably couldn’t even if he tried) without professional help.
This.

He sounds deeply unhappy. Anger is the other side of pain. It’s a way we / some express pain.

I know that when I was suffering with extreme sadness and loss I became very angry and rage was always at the surface just ready to explode.

The fact that he also feels remorse and would go out of his way to help his family at other times would give me hope that he would be able to find his way out of the anger with professional help.

In terms of what you should do - distance yourself other than the pleasantries when you need to see him for family occasions. If / when he asks then you will have to be honest. But keep to the facts.
You will have to be strong with your DF too, I went NC with a sibling and I am firm with my DP that I don’t want to be involved in their dynamic anymore. When the conversation is brought up I shut it down.

Palavah · 27/12/2021 08:56

@MissyB1

He doesn’t hate you - but he will almost certainly hate himself. He’s got some form of mental illness by the sounds of it. He needs therapy, but I suspect he wouldn’t want to hear it. Has anyone ever talked to him about his anger issues/ anxiety? He’s not going to change (and probably couldn’t even if he tried) without professional help.
This.

Btw, did you have towels for your wet dog? Were you unable to park where he'd advised?

Fritilleries · 27/12/2021 08:59

Back away. Be selfish and just stay away. You wouldn't tolerate that from a friend, would you?

Angrybrother · 27/12/2021 09:10

@MissyB1

He doesn’t hate you - but he will almost certainly hate himself. He’s got some form of mental illness by the sounds of it. He needs therapy, but I suspect he wouldn’t want to hear it. Has anyone ever talked to him about his anger issues/ anxiety? He’s not going to change (and probably couldn’t even if he tried) without professional help.
I absolutely agree. Have thought this for years. I’ve tried to talk to him about it but he’s evasive or says I’m the problem, not him. Other times the hostility and nastiness - for no reason at all - is so breathtaking I feel I don’t want to see him again. Our family was quite high-conflict when we were young. A lot of fighting and shouting between us all, although not between DB and me at the time. We all thought it was normal at the time One of us moved permanently abroad, very far away, as a result. I’m not a perfect parent but I’m much more loving to my DC and there is much less fighting than when I was growing up thankfully. DB however seems stuck in that childhood dynamic where he speaks to us all in a very aggressive way that he thinks is normal but it really isn’t. Another DSis is like this too. If you asked them, they would say I was aggressive too. As a family we are close but not close iykwim. But DB is the worst - and worsening with age - maybe because he hasn’t had his own family to see how things could be different.
OP posts:
Luredbyapomegranate · 27/12/2021 09:11

This sounds like a bad case of self hatred, and a deep deep unhappiness, combined with an unattractive willingness to take it out on other people. It doesn’t sound like it’s anger towards you, but the world.

You cannot be expected to tolerate events like this, so I would reduce to shorter less stressful events.

I would also go for a cup of tea with him, say you are seriously worried, and he needs to seek help, suggest Dad and siblings do the same - and email him some details of therapy services eg UKCP. He needs a male therapist with experience of dealing with anger.

His liking the idea of you rather than reality probably has some truth, but I think he’ll view himself in the same way - his journey will be learning to accept himself and others for what they are.

Regular short contact will be helpful to him.

Angrybrother · 27/12/2021 09:19

@Palavah
Yes we had brought towels for the dog.
Yes I could have moved the car but it would have been to a spot further from the door.
The point isn’t the car anyway. It’s the fact that the conversation went, “hey DB we’re at the front entrance”
“Well, move to the back”.
“Why?”
“Just move”.

OP posts:
Angrybrother · 27/12/2021 09:20

@Luredbyapomegranate

This sounds like a bad case of self hatred, and a deep deep unhappiness, combined with an unattractive willingness to take it out on other people. It doesn’t sound like it’s anger towards you, but the world.

You cannot be expected to tolerate events like this, so I would reduce to shorter less stressful events.

I would also go for a cup of tea with him, say you are seriously worried, and he needs to seek help, suggest Dad and siblings do the same - and email him some details of therapy services eg UKCP. He needs a male therapist with experience of dealing with anger.

His liking the idea of you rather than reality probably has some truth, but I think he’ll view himself in the same way - his journey will be learning to accept himself and others for what they are.

Regular short contact will be helpful to him.

Thank you. I’ll keep trying. He is unhappy.
OP posts:
MissyB1 · 27/12/2021 10:00

Yes pp idea of sign posting him to help is good. Then quietly back away. Tell him you will be there if he needs you, but you have deliberately left the aggression and drama of your childhood behind, and you don’t want in in your children’s lives.

MordenLarch · 27/12/2021 10:12

Sorry - me again. One thing I didn’t mention is that my brother revealed to me at the funeral (after not speaking to me for 10 years for NO reason) that he’s been diagnosed with ASD (was Aspergers). I then read an article online that seemed to explain his horrible rage and behaviour (but not all of it obvs) as apparently it can cause big problems with neurotypical siblings when the diagnosis comes later in life) due to the sense of unfairness, lack of empathy and other issues. Just wondered if you’d considered this at all? Still doesn’t excuse it

UserBot99 · 27/12/2021 10:15

He sounds a nightmare!

The soup question is a good barometre imo. If i was asked how i made the soup, like you, id just answer.

My family think im angry and it's because they have decided there will be no conversation about something that matters to me, my experience. There is one perspective, and its not mine.
I suggest this only because it is the source of my anger at my mother. She will not hear me. I am stonewalled. Subjects for discussion are the weather, the garden.

Is it possible that your brother is not being heard on some matter??

But then, i know, some people just project every minor irritation outwards. My x was surrounded my fools.

A580Hojas · 27/12/2021 10:22

Please don't expose your poor children to any more time in the company of this angry man. What a rotten experience for them.

UserBot99 · 27/12/2021 10:25

Defence mechanisms where the person can blame somebody else for everything are so common. My mother is so so defensive that i feel envious of her sometimes. I read a book about defense mechanisms by dr joseph brugo, good book.
I know these types externalise their shame instantly to protect the ego from even the tiniest bit of shame, which is intolerable to them.

But you can be in the firing line of somebody else's effective defense mechanisms understanding perfectly but still feeling so sad and 4,000 euro lighter in therapy fees.

I have to go grey rock with my family. Their array of "externalise instantly defense mechanisms protects them, but what protects the family member who internalises everything???

Only distance. I have done so much emotional labour trying to "get through" to my mother and enabling father and golden child enmeshed bossybdismissive brother.

It got me nowhere.

I wish id just faded away, not given them ecplanations!

UserBot99 · 27/12/2021 10:27

2022 grey rock 🌚🗿

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