Can Marriage Survive After An Affair?

[Indie]

I am hoping that someone might be able to share their experience if their dh/dp had an affair? How did you deal with it? Did you forget? Forgive? It has happened to me but it was 3 years ago and yet it still seems to effect what I feel towards my dh - will it ever not?

I think that you try to forget, put it to the back of your mind, don't bring it up, because its harsh, but you know it is always ammo...ammunition that you would rather do without

That is the problem though - I don't want to use it as ammunition - but of course it is always there and I find that it influences my thoughts about other things - rationally or not! I actually thought that as time passed it would be less of an issue and it is obviously in some ways . . . . but in others it is even more so!

No one I know has had this happen to them, so I find it hard sometimes to gauge my feelings about it all.

Indie, I can't help specifically as my dh has only just finished his affair with my ex best friend so I'm not sure yet even if our marriage will survive (I want it to, he;s not sure). But if it does survive, I too hope I can not let it cloud my feelings, although at the moment I am very suprised at how often it just pops into my head when I least expect it. I am going to see a counsellor to talk about my feelings in November, so I will be interested to see if this helps. I too would be interested to hear from others in a similar situation.

Just wanted to say I was glad to hear that dh has come to his senses at least a little - whether you want him back or not it can only help if those two are not together anymore.

I can only comment from the other end of the scale - it being me that had the affair, not him. After he found out (with me just admitting we were only friends), it then took me a year to finally confess all and the only reason I did this was because I felt that only by him knowing all the facts could he decide if he wanted to stay with me or not, and to be honest with you, he wore me down so much I felt it was easier to come clean and then all the accusations would stop as he would know all the facts.

He did decide to forgive me, we had another baby and then, when she was 11 weeks old (last New Year's Eve), he told me our marriage was over. He then changed his mind and then changed his mind AGAIN the day before my son's 5th birthday. We have been separated since February but he has only moved out since the beginning of September.

I always felt a marriage could survive an affair but that seems to have been my down-fall. I always thought I would forgive him and would rather be with him than not be with him, but it seems that he just couldn't forgive me for what I did to him and the only way we could both have a decent life was for him to end our marriage (although, ultimately, I know it was me that ended the marriage by having the affair in the first place).

I know that people might not want to talk about this - but surely (given how often it seems to happen to celebs in the papers!)there must be others who have experienced this or know some one who has! I read about public affairs and they always say 'and the wife is sticking by him etc etc)'. But where do you draw the line - never forgive and forget / let them do it once / or accept that it is just part of our marriage?

I just don't know if you can forget and forgive really as the trust has been broken and isn't that such a major binding force of marriage?

I agree - not from personal experience admittedly - but once the trust is shattered it must be extremely hard to truly "forgive and forget". Can't imagine that there won't be times that you'll be thinking about it, even if you don't actually mention the subject. Also can see how it could lead to breakdown of marriage - you're desperately trying to "move on" but are really so destructively angry that you end up picking on all the other little things that xxxx you off about your partner, simply because you don't want to touch on the one big thing that has ruined it all for you.

Having said that, Indie, maybe time is a great healer?

I hope I can give another perspective Indie, about this trauma which is obviusely eating you up inside. I am ashamed to admit that I had an affair (5 years ago now). I admitted it to db once it was over and fortunately for me, he decided he loved me enough to stay. At the time I felt accutely aware of what he might be going through and so you could say that I made every possible effort to assure him I loved him and found him attractive and sexy etc. We had to do a lot of talking about why I did it and sometimes still do, because it was to do with problems in our relationship that I didn't know how to deal with, so I turned to someone else. Although I realise that what happened was ultimately my own responsibility and weakness, I also know that I at that time I really didn't feel he wanted me. In a way I think I was trying to tell him there was a big problem, but have obviousely since realised this was sooo not the right way to deal with it. Basically I suppose what I'm trying to say is that people make mistakes and love is the most important thing above all else. My bf and I have had to learn to talk (literally) about things we are unhappy about, to understand each-other more and be closer intimately. I do believe that most problems that occur in relationships should be 'investigated' by both partners to search for reasons and issues which they stem from. Incidentally, to this day I have difficulty believing what I did, and for a long time I really suffered with my own guilt and shame. Your partner may have these feelings too, although I suppose it's more acceptable for a man, so maybe not. Either way you need to get him to open up to you and also you probably need to say/ask your own questions, worries, get it all off your chest. Try not to be affraid, only learn to get to know each other more. Find out to your own level of satisfaction if you believe he really loves and needs you and how sorry he is for what he did. Men do seem to have problems understanding emotional issues, so he may not understand just how hurt you are. I find that it helps if I try to see our problems as more like an adventure for our relationship. Good luck. Let u know what you discover.

oh yes, and sorry about the essay, also I meant let us know what you discover.

Dear Indie,

I thought some time before contributing to this one as I think you either answer the question with one word or have to spend a whole afternoon - at least - talking about it. From my own experience, it took a complete sea change in my marriage to begin to deal with the fact that my dh had broken the trust in our relationship. On the negative side, there are certain situations that I would no longer feel comfortable with such as my dh having any close female friends. On a much more positive note, the confession of infidelity acted as a catalyst to make us confront other issues in our marriage. Although I never take anything for granted, I always thought I would know if my dh had been unfaithful. It took time and heartache to reach a state where I could reaffirm my belief in my dh as a essentially very good person who had been capable of doing something hurtful. I don't know if this rings any bells with you. I think the answer is that you can never have the same relationship as you did before, but if you both want to, you can build another relationship that can be stronger in the overcoming of traumatic events.

My d?h had a relationship with someone at work just after our first ds was born. Although he swears he didn't sleep with her (and I think I believe him) it has still had a huge effect on me. It's a very long story really but I'll try to be brief. He felt left out after ds was born and says he purposly started something with the bitch (see how angry I still am!) to get my attention. He says it was not about her at all and that he used her to get at me which I frankly think is despicable behaviour and would not have though him capable of it. Three years on I think he's forgotten the whole thing yet after I found out we hardly spoke for six months and he carried on seeing her for a while. What got to me the most was the deceit - the fact that he would meet her and say he was working late etc etc and deny it even if I had concrete evidence. I actually think that he wanted it to end as soon as I found out as he had made his point but she would not let go (probably because he had led her on so much)and of course he had to keep her happy so that she wouldn't make a big fuss. When he started flirting with her she had a fiance and I think he thought she was 'safe' and not the sort of person who would have an affair but actually she dumped her fiance and wanted my h to leave me (she was only 19 to his 31 and very naive so I am told by people who know her)! The whole thing was a big mess and I really can't remember how we sorted things out - I really only did it for my ds and because I wanted another baby which I now have (selfish I suppose but once you have one child with a man you might as well have the same man father the next child). Now I don't know how I feel about him. Sometimes I look at him and despise him and wonder why I am still with him and other times I almost feel like I still love him. I am very confused. I am scared to love him anymore in case he does it again and I have also lost faith in my own judgement as I would have staked my life on him being totally faithfull. I also feel like he has had his cake and eaten it without paying if you see what I mean. I almost want to do the same myself to re-level the playing field. I don't know how to go forward because he will not even discuss the situation with me and if I bring it up rants and raves and gets really nasty just to sidetrack the issue - he has temper tantrums when he is annoyed which makes me further despice him for his lack of self control. I went to see Relate at the time though and the counsellor said she thought I was a very strong personality and that he might feel oppressed - I tried to take that on board but at the same time I think it's a crock of shit. Sorry can't give any advice!! Indie - I think I feel the same as you but have no idea at all what to do about it as I am still so unbelievably angry. I absolutely cannot forget and as he will only apologise for hurting me but not for doing it (he says I needed the wake up call) then I can't forgive him either. Maybe it takes a better person than me to do that? Or maybe it's just the betrayers expecting too much and wanting it all to be forgotten in their own interests?

Mumma - I think that he treats you meanly when you want to talk about it as it deflects the guilt that he is feeling.

I think that, when someone has broken your trust you can never forget, but in order to carry on living with them, you have to forgive. You say that you have tried to take the Relate advice on board, and then in the next breath say that it is a crock of s**t! Forgive me, but did you go to Relate only to hear that you were in the right, and your dh in the wrong? It sounds that way to me. Obviously your dh was wrong to have an affair, there is no question about that at all. However, counselling is not there to reassure you, it is there to make you work through the reasons for things, and often you don't like the conclusions that are reached.

IMO when someone has a fling, whether flirtatiously or a full blown affair, it is never black and white. It sounds like your dh picked someone that he felt would never want to take things further, so that meant that he just wanted to inflate his ego, rather than leave you. Whatever you do, don't go and do the same thing, as I guarantee that you will regret it. If you think that your relationship is over, then that is another matter, but if it isn't, you will be just as bad as him, and you still won't be able to move on from the original act of infidelity. It won't magically stop hurting just because you have now shagged someone.

I would follow chinchilla's advice Mumma, she sounds very wise. Where children are involved it's surely always worth working as hard as you can to sort problems out.

Music and Chinchilla - thanks for your messages. Yes Chinchilla - spot on - I think I did go intitially to hear that I was right!! and was very very shocked to hear that I had played my own part in what happened. I dodn't like a lot of what I heard as I had thought I was the innocent victim, not part of the problem. I do try very hard to not be so 'in charge' but do sometimes find it a bit of a challenge!! My dh did go to one counselling session and then refused to go again. The counsellor said she could 'feel the anger coming off him in waves'and this is part of our problem - he is still very angry himself about his father walking out when he was about 5 and it all seemed to resurface when ds was born.

I am trying to get on with things and really don't want us to split up becasue I think all things considered we are a great family and he is making an effort to put his past behind him too. I do love him and he is a good person, I just can't get it out of my head. The more I try to the worse it seems to get - I feel like I am making sure that things don't get sorted out and getting obsessed with the past when really I should move on. How do you move on?? I think I am trying to make him pay but it also feels very destructive and I want to stop. It has become a big issue when really it needs putting firmly in the past where it belongs.

I am a lot calmer today though!! Didn't mean to go on so much yesterday and wouldn't really dream of 'getting my own back' - just sounding off I guess. I don't really hate her either as from what I have found out she was probably hurt by what happended too. I read the message again and I sound awful. Sorry for swearing too.

Indie - how do you cope? Surely I/we won't feel like this forever?

Glad to hear you're feeling more cheery Mumma. I think that if you want to make things work, they probably will. Just this week, I realised that me and db really need to spend more time together to talk. We work together as well, and I thought, if we'de spent as much time and energy on our relationship as we have on our work, we would have been able to overcome many problems which have become so big. It just seems like one never-ending puzzle, which needs loads of work, you know what I mean? But since I looked at it this way, I am no longer surprised when 'issues' pop up!

Hope you are ok Indie.

Thank you all for replying to me. Sorry for being so slow in getting back in touch.

It was very reassuring and also enlightening to read what you have all written and especially to hear that others have been through this sort of thing. It has made me think about things . . . .

I guess to set the background somewhat; my story is very similar to Mumma's, in that my dh had an affair (and yes he did sleep with her) when our 1st child was 16 months old. I had my suspicions due to changes in behaviour but found out by accident by receiving an e-mail from her (detailing what had happened) when it came through by error on to my computer at work (we worked together at the time!). Confronted with the evidence (after denying it at first!) he at the time also blamed me and all sorts of other things - the stress of being a Father / the responsibilities as the provider/ his longing for his old life - etc etc etc. I also found out, later that he had been having a totally inappropriate relationship with another woman ? although just by e-mail and getting in contact with his old girlfriend, moaning about his life to her while glorifying his past with her!!! Yes things weren't great in our lives at that time but it was because we were starting out and it was new and different and at times hard going.

Anyway we did manage to sort it out (ie I ?forgave? him and didn?t pack up and leave), although I think it had a lot to do with the fact that I was in a reasonably vulnerable position ? recently moved to a new area, no family support, not financially independent and having a young child ? I wasn?t in the position to really walk away. Plus it was so refreshing to hear what Mumma said about wanting another child with the same man ? I also felt that, we planned to have two and I wasn?t prepared to give that ?dream? up at the stage.

So time went past and we now have another child and lo behold, I feel like Mumma does! He drives me MAD! I think now that I have the space to think about it all and I am not in that vulnerable state anymore it, I can really allow myself to feel how it affected me. He broke my heart ? I have never felt so absolutely devasted in my life. I just never expected that of him and all I could think about was our wedding day ? 2 years earlier and making those vows together, which now meant nothing. Like you Mumma, I was so angry at the deceit, the lack of respect for me, for jeopardising my dd's future, for making me feel like I had no where safe to be. Of course for him, now it is the past and he has forgotten it and can?t understand why I should dwell on it anymore.

I know that he is ?sorry? and I don?t think that he has done anything like that again but it is hard to explain why it changes everything. I think that, for me, it is that I can?t love him like I used to. I guess you feel too scared to go there in case it happens again and you get hurt and partly because, you can?t love him in that same way as you first did because the pureness of the relationship is not as it was. But why now, after 3 years is this bothering me more? I think because, my youngest is getting older, I have a great job, good friends and are very settled in this area and in our house. I guess I no longer feel ?vulnerable? and are now starting to re-evaluate our relationship. What I find I guess, is all the things that aren?t great (and I know there are things in every relationship) I am less prepared to tolerate and accept because the depth of my love is no longer there. My dh is an extremely selfish man and has put me through periods of hell over the years (what sort of man considers being away for 2 weeks when our baby was due and expects you to be able to cope on your own with a toddler ? or the very night that we move into our new house leaves me, dd and baby ds on our own to try and sort out things while he goes out for the evening swim training when he is also leaving early the next morning overseas for 2 weeks for work???). Maybe the selfish things that he does I could deal with (as he does have good qualities too) but because of having an affair ? I find that I just don?t have the capacity or depth of love to constantly forgive and forget.

What to do? I am trying to get him to come to Relate with me so that he can understand how I feel and how even though it is in the past it does influence me today (we never had counselling at the time which I think was a mistake). So far he is refusing to, even when I say that we need to do this to try and save this marriage. We can?t discuss anything ourselves as he just gets angry and accuses me of putting him down. So I don?t know what to do ? I think about leaving him, as I just don?t know if my feelings can ever be at the point where I love him as I think he should be loved and I don?t think that is fair for either of us. But we have the kids and he is a good Father to them.

So can a marriage survive after an affair???? At the moment I just don?t know if it can.

Indie, this sounds very painful and I don't blame you for not feeling sure if your marriage can survive. I hope it helps getting it down and talking about it. I also hope that you can persuade your DH to go to counselling, it does sound as if you need a safe place to tell him how his behaviour made you feel and still makes you feel. No advice I'm afraid, but good luck.

Hi Indie, as you may be aware from other threads my dh has been having an affair with my bestfriend for 5 months. It is now over (2 months ago) and we are going to relate so it is very early days. However if your DH won't go with you to relate, have you considered going to a counsellor yourself, either at relate or privatley. In addition to Realte I am going to a counsellor attached to our GP's surgery. I had my first session last night and it was so good to be able to pour everything out, talk about what I was feeling etc. without the fear of being interupted or having to listen to anyone elses opinions. The counsellor was good, empathised well, and led me gently into exploring my emotions. It is very early and I may feel differently next week but at the moment it just such a relief to talk. I don't know if this helps, but I do feel for you and hope things work out for you. Take care.

Hello again Indie. It sounds like you're being really brave to me, suggesting councelling and everything to your dh. What are his reasons for refusing to do this with you? Definately it sounds to me like your marriage could survive his affair if he was doing/saying enough to reassure you of his love for you. And just generally behaving in ways which would make you more happy and secure? I'm not surprised you can't forgive and move on, if he hasn't really made enough effort to rectify the damage done. I know that probably doesn't help, but maybe try to find a way to let him know just how much better your lives could be with a little councelling help. Or failing that, just what the consequences of not being able to talk(councelling or no councelling) about all this could be? Failing all that, maybe Viv's suggestion of going on your own is not such a bad idea.....

Thanks for replying - it was quite the release writing all that down, so that helped in a way!

Yes I have been for counselling on my own. Last year was very difficult after the birth of our son (due to lack of dh support) but I did get fantastic support from my health visitor who put me in touch with a counsellor, who has helped me to understand and sort through my feelings. What it also did was made me realise the extent of my dh faults. After so many years you sometimes just take things for granted, that is how things are but she did manage to make me see that it wasn't right - what he was doing / saying.

I would like him to see her with me but he refuses as he feels that we can sort it out ourselves and that as he loves me, there really isn't a problem - just that I tend to dwell on the past too much!

I think that he is scared though - to hear some truth and perhaps because he knows that my feelings have changed towards him and he doesn?t want to know.

I hate confronting him as it always ends in anger - he calls me names and manages to undermine my confidence in what I really feel. I find it hard to believe really, as I am relatively strong in all other aspects of my life and it seems so unlike me to shy away from this. It just always seems to him, that I am putting him down, while taking away bit-by-bit of whom he is. I don't want this to be the case at all - rather a conversation that can highlight the problems that we are having and suggest solutions about how to solve them - surely adjustments are needed in any relationship over the years?

Now I am reaching a point where I just don't have the energy or strength to care anymore - I feel worn down by him. However I owe it to my kids to make an effort but are somewhat shying away from it, so not to 'rock the boat' with Christmas coming up! Good idea or not??

Indie - don?t feel up to commenting much but as your question to whether it can survive - my answer is yes. Good Luck either way.

Seems pretty confusing and tiring Indie, you are doing well to hang on in there. He puts you down, but he feels like you put him down? Sounds a bit like maybe he hasn't forgotten what he did or how he's treated you? It seems to me that men have a funny way of dealing with themselves when they've been total s...s.

Instead of him saying, 'OK, I have really failed you as a lover and a partner, and I'm going to do everything in my power to make this work again'.
He turns it around (because his ego can't deal with the absolute failure) and makes it out to be you that is putting him down. (Why oh why do men do this?) Is that maybe what your dh could be doing?

Also, how involved is he with the kids? He probably doesn't even realise just how hard it is to look after babies, children and a home on your own. Lets face it, nobody can know the reality of that unless they've actually done it. He probably just thinks 'I work hard all day, why can't you just be nice to me at home?' Maybe he resents his job, would have rather been at home more with you all, but didn't know how to express that, because he was just trying to be a 'man' about it all. And maybe there was a small part of him which(in ignorance) thought that you got the easy bit being at home etc...

Also, how much time do you really spend together? With your kiddies doing fun things but also on your own to talk.

As far as the therapy is concerned, maybe there is another way round that. You could turn it around if you said to him that you feel there are some things about him that you really need to understand(which is true anyway) You don't feel he has really told you many aspects of his feelings and is there a way he could do that without therapy? Along with the fact that you also don't feel like he understands your feelings too. What I'm trying to say is that maybe if you make it seem more about both of you understanding each-other better, you might not even need the therapy.

There are methods you can try, like arrange to spend an evening together, then in a quiet room, with no other distracions(tv, music, alcohol) have a list of questions each which you take it in turn to ask each other. The rules are that when each person is answering their respective questions, the other is absolutely forbidden from speaking(not one single word) This means that you are forced to listen/take in/not be defensive etc.

It does seem really unfair that you have to be the one to sort all this mess out, but if you really want it to work(you love him enough) it will be worth it, and at the end of the day, someone always has to take the reigns and lead the way forward. Good luck, let us know how it's going..........