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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Family fallout need help to understand

19 replies

Beeth0ven · 24/12/2021 09:24

I have fallen out w my brother & would love some help processing it all ... or just some perspectives. It’s long and complicated will try to summarise:

Mum & dad divorced due to dad’s affair when I was 10, brother was 8.
Dad was relatively unreliable, odd girlfriends, ill-advised wife’s. Both my brother and I struggled with him growing up.
Dad was also a bit creepy with women, sometimes I felt that extended to me. No touching but inappropriate comments.
When my brother got married age 26 he essentially rejected my dad, my dads side of the family and my dads daughter (our half sister, who I am very close to - almost a mother-daughter relationship, she’s much younger than me). Much hurt all round.
Brother got himself in a lot of debt over the years for different reasons and now owes family (my mum, dad, uncle and step sibling) around £200k total. He’s also a spendthrift, buying art a lot, which is irritating to the people he owes.
He becomes a stay at home dad to his kids. He also becomes a dictatorial, angry, opinionated man. His personality evolves from once fun to reactive, angry, lecturing. It’s known in the family that you could never raise an issue with him and talk it through calmly, he would get very agitated and aggressive, so nothing is ever really said.
He’s now addicted to Bitcoin and Crypto. He’s awful to his wife and kids, shouting at them and ignoring for hours on his phone looking at crypto.
He has started being more open to seeing dad but has also told me stuff like he won’t really be too bothered when he dies. I’m closer to dad these days as he helped me emotionally thru divorce and simply because time has healed a lot.

My brother contacts me this summer asking to borrow money. He says he can’t tell his wife because they got another £50k in debt over the summer and if she finds this out she’ll divorce him. He also says he feels “numb”. I thought he sounded in a very bad place (and have long thought he’s not very well mentally). I told my half sister about the request for money and that I was worried about him. She told the rest of our family. Turned out he actually owed a loan shark 4times what he’d asked me for. My mum paid it. Lord to my step dad about it and asked my brother not to do it again (!).

My brother is now not talking to me, or my sister - but totally fine with my dad ?? He said we are abusive cunts and that he’s really drawn the shit straw having us for a family.

I don’t think I care too much about him not talking to me - any ‘conversation’ over the last 10 hrs has been him lecturing me about one of his latest obsessions - house prices, private education, the fact that dad fucked us over by not providing us with enough money... Bitcoin. Whatever. And it’s easier not to see him yell at his wife and kids and feel disgusted by him.

But how can I make peace with it? I feel he is such an awful person yet it’s ME that’s been sidelined. I fear the ne t time I see him will be at my dads funeral and he’ll be devastated and want to be the centre of everything despite rejecting my dad for years and bleeding him for cash.... and I als feel that my dad was a problem in the past and so I wonder if my brothers actions are a bit founded and maybe I should be more supportive of my brother. He feels we have abused him???

Does anyone have any insight?

OP posts:
ShippingNews · 24/12/2021 09:28

He is a twat. Go No Contact and you'll have a much happier life.

Suzanne999 · 24/12/2021 09:33

Your brother is self centred, selfish and abusive to his family, but you know that.
I think any relationship you have with him will only involve him asking you for more money until he bleeds you dry financially and emotionally.

I think your support would be better used supporting his wife and children.
I really can’t see how you can have a relationship with your brother as he clearly doesn’t want any sort of meaningful relationship with you or any other family members. He just wants money.

ErrmWTAF · 24/12/2021 09:34

Woe, that's a lot you have to process.

Other, wiser posters will come along, but the main "quick" thing I can offer is this: you can't control other people. You can only control yourself and how you feel about things. It's frustrating, I'm sure, but it's also amazingly liberating! Once you fully take that on board, you'll feel so much lighter, better able to step away

And step away you must. Write off the entire family if you have to, or pick&choose the few you can trust and/or the levels at which you would trust them. It's going to be a balancing act at times, but look after you and your own health and well being first.

Beeth0ven · 24/12/2021 09:35

Haha - love the simplicity and do think you’re right. I can’t figure out why it’s got in my head so much. I think I think he’s a bit of a monster and I also feel a bit mad because mum and dad just seem to tolerate him. So there’s such a gap between what I think & what they think. But then I think, if I would be more comfortable if they also thought he is a monster, maybe that is a form of abuse on my part? Like I want them to see him the way I see him... but then he’s such a dick I kinda think - how can you not see that. And maybe if they had the balls to say something it might shock him into actually reflecting on who he has become.

Urgh.

OP posts:
felulageller · 24/12/2021 09:37

Stay well away.

2pinkginsplease · 24/12/2021 09:39

Definitely no contact, ive done this and feel that a weight has been lifted. It’s been 2 years for me now and life is much less stressful.

My niece and nephew don’t talk to our family anymore all due to his behaviour so it does hurt but I’m not living on edge anymore,, dreading my phone ringing or dreading a knock at the door.

Flixon · 24/12/2021 09:50

its so hard when its 'close' family. You cant control him and I would have as little do do with him as possible, You and those you love know the truth. I would also have a quiet work with is wife and offer her support to LTB

Beeth0ven · 24/12/2021 09:56

I do feel the worst about his wife and kids. His wife must despise him - she works night and day (and in fairness he is a SAHD so he contributes) but getting them into debt when she’s working her ass off must really stick in her throat. But they now live in a community which is very much about keeping up w the Jones’s, and I don’t think speaking to her is an option. On the surface they have the perfect existence, inc gorgeous home. But the undercurrent is toxic. Oldest niece is 11 and they live at the other end of the country so not sure how I can intervene (have given it a lot of thought).

OP posts:
Dery · 24/12/2021 10:04

"I think I think he’s a bit of a monster and I also feel a bit mad because mum and dad just seem to tolerate him. So there’s such a gap between what I think & what they think. But then I think, if I would be more comfortable if they also thought he is a monster, maybe that is a form of abuse on my part?"

I completely get where you're coming from and he does sound fairly awful. It must feel very frustrating when that is obvious to you but other people respond differently. But he is your parents' child so they're coming from a different position to you. Parents are programmed to love their children no matter what and, however badly he behaves, they're going to want to see the best in him and want the best for him; they're going to want to be there for him. That will be a big part of why they tolerate him.

EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 24/12/2021 10:04

I also feel a bit mad because mum and dad just seem to tolerate him. So there’s such a gap between what I think & what they think

As parents, they are not just dealing with "my son is a waste of space" - they're also dealing with "I've MADE my son a waste of space, oh god I'm a terrible parent, how can I fix this?"

Step back and try to see their relationship with him as a completely separate entity, unconnected to their relationship with you, or your relationship with him.

Dery · 24/12/2021 10:05

Should have said - I do completely get your frustration though because what your parents are doing is enabling him in his bad behaviour, through misguided actions based on love.

Dery · 24/12/2021 10:06

@EvenMoreFuriousVexation put it much better than I did. They've absolutely nailed the point.

traka · 24/12/2021 10:19

Your brother sounds like a really horrible person. I would totally cut him out of my life immediately

I hope nobody is expecting to get any of their money back

Beeth0ven · 24/12/2021 10:20

Thank you both - you know I’d never actually considered it in that way. Especially the idea that my relationship with him is separate to theirs, which sounds ridiculous now I say it out loud.

Really insightful

OP posts:
BluebellsGreenbells · 24/12/2021 10:26

You have to switch off and think of him as an annoying co-worker.

Withdrawn from any conversations etc with parents about him or his family saying you aren’t interested. They less you know the less you’ll worry about it all.

Beeth0ven · 24/12/2021 10:28

I do think, as I read these responses, part of it is that I feel like I’m the only person who sees this.

As I said, if you didn’t know them too well you might be envious of their idyllic life, if you just saw their Instagram you’d think their life was perfect. And my family all seem to tolerate it. And it makes me wonder if I’m just a hard bitch or have ridiculously high expectations and that’s why I struggle with being around them (to be clear I never let on, I just spend a lot of time wishing it was a bit more fun, a little more relaxed).

OP posts:
AgentJohnson · 24/12/2021 13:00

Your family don’t tolerate him, they are his enablers. Your parents know exactly who he is but have chosen denial probably out of guilt for their role in his shitty upbringing. Do yourself a favour and liberate yourself from the drama by ignoring him.

Suzanne999 · 24/12/2021 13:03

@felulageller

Stay well away.
I’ve been thinking about your post this morning. I think your brother’s got into your head because he’s obviously addicted — to risk, perhaps, as his behaviour seems to suggest obsession/addiction. Your SIL has to decide what her actions will be and all you can do is be there to support her emotionally when she needs you. His debt is huge, and I fear he’ll just try to hold the tide back by begging, borrowing, cajoling money from you and other family members. Please stay safe, his addiction could financially ruin the whole family.
Suzanne999 · 24/12/2021 13:04

Sorry, quoted wrong post. Duh!!!! Was meant for OP.

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