Tips to manage Christmas with wanker BIL

[TiredButDancing]

I've posted before about SIL and BIL. he is an emotionally abusive twat who contributes nothing financially, emotionally or practically to their lives. He briefly moved out but is back. Theoretically, this relationship is over but there's no signs that the actually accepts that and SIL is still so controlled by him that she doesn't feel she can lay down the law.

But we have to spend Christmas with him. I haven't seen him for ages but I've heard that the sniping and moods are constant (and that SIL, to be fair, isn't much better because she's so resentful). I don't want to say or do anything that will inflame the situation but I am not sure how to avoid it. My strategies so far are:

1. Suggest to SIL that her and I take charge of the kitchen. I have tended to try NOT to do that in an attempt not to take over when at their house, but if it's the two of them attempting to make Christmas dinner, it will be a disaster.

1. Ask DH to subtly be in charge of other things such as drinks etc because BIL won't and SIL will get stressed.

1. I'm practising friendly phrases in my head in advance so that I can wheel them out without thinking.

1. Shot of tequila (which always makes me very "happy") before we leave?

You're putting your SIL above the needs of your own children. She has a choice as to how she lives her life, and she chooses to stay with this abusive loser. Your kids shouldn't have to have a miserable Christmas because of her, and your, choices.

You remind yourself constantly that you live your sister and beices/ nephews more than you dislike him
You remind yourself how much the kids will enjoy the day if it passes in as much peace as possible, and that's more important than him getting a rise out of you
You focus on the kids as much as possible as they are the common ground and subtly reminds everyone of what Xmas is about

And do the tequila just in case 😉

@baileys6904

You remind yourself constantly that you live your sister and beices/ nephews more than you dislike him You remind yourself how much the kids will enjoy the day if it passes in as much peace as possible, and that's more important than him getting a rise out of you You focus on the kids as much as possible as they are the common ground and subtly reminds everyone of what Xmas is about

And do the tequila just in case 😉

Thank you. Yes, I think this is definitely it. And as i said, all the comments that we shouldn't go have helped me remember it! And it's not like we don't have experience of just getting on with it and having a good time while he lurks outside smoking! DD is planning games with DNs, DS is desperately hoping weather is good enough that him and Big Cousin can play some football, DH is looking forward to seeing his brother (who will also be there, with teenage DN). There are plenty of good things.

@baileys6904 also, I have just added Baileys to my online shopping order for tomorrow. Thanks for that!

And eventually your children and you will go home. What then for your sister in law?

What you’re doing by going there is a sop to the overwhelming problem I.e your sister in law and in turn her children being abused. Trying to put a gloss on their day, whilst understandable from your point of view , is papering over the cracks.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

And eventually your children and you will go home. What then for your sister in law?

What you’re doing by going there is a sop to the overwhelming problem I.e your sister in law and in turn her children being abused. Trying to put a gloss on their day, whilst understandable from your point of view , is papering over the cracks.

As one of the first signs of his emotional abuse that we noticed was the way in which he attempted to sabotage family events and separate her from her family, believe me when I say that us choosing not to see her just plays into his hands. It may well be slightly different now as her eyes are at least slightly open but he still has enough of a hold over her that he could turn this into another stick to beat her with and that she would accept at least some of his version.

At different times and in different situations we have been and continue to be very clear on what we think. But what am I supposed to do? Tell her that unless she throws him out that's it, we won't see her or spend time with her or be there for her? He has convinced her that she can't throw him out. That if she does that she is the big mean abusive person he has been accusing her of being for a long time. I'm ashamed to say that I've in the past almost wished he'd hit her, just once, but hard enough to make a difference because that might actually drive her to seek help and because I could then call the police myself if necessary. My biggest regret is that during an incident about 8 years ago I didn't do that.

I might go to Christmas and be in the same room with him under that specific condition, but I've been the one person who has called him out for his behaviour (and yes, he hates me for it) and who has consistently told SIL this isn't okay. Don't even get me started on PIL and how they have contributed to this problem because of the way they have treated her.

I'm not abandoning her as some kind of "tough love" situation.

The road to hell is full of good intentions. She and in turn her children will be “punished” by her abuser for your visit there. Visiting her in her house because it’s Christmas will not help her in the long run. She will likely be on edge all day because of him too.

My counsel to you would be to contact Women’s Aid and discuss your SILs situation with them. You can only support her in encouraging her to think about what life would be like without him in it day to day.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

The road to hell is full of good intentions. She and in turn her children will be “punished” by her abuser for your visit there. Visiting her in her house because it’s Christmas will not help her in the long run. She will likely be on edge all day because of him too.

My counsel to you would be to contact Women’s Aid and discuss your SILs situation with them. You can only support her in encouraging her to think about what life would be like without him in it day to day.

I didn't know you could contact women's aid on behalf of someone else? I have looked at their website and they say that if you think someone is in an abusive relationship you need to continue to be there for them. We also took the test for "are you in an abusive relationship" as if we were SIL and well, let's just say there were a lot of Yes answers.

We do and are encouraging her to think about life without him. Progress has been made but it's astonishing how he has his claws in her.

There's no doubt in my mind that she would be punished far more if we don't go. One of his key tricks is to paint himself as the victim. So, if we don't go, he will 100% portray this as how he is so hard done by and misunderstood and he will accuse her of lying to us about him etc. To be honest, a lot of the time we walk this fine line where we try to get her to see what is crazy about him and it's only when there is absolutely NO ambiguity that she can see it (again, because of how he's trained her). So, for example, us not coming to christmas he can blame us and make us to be the bad guy and accuse her of badmouthing him and she'll take some of that on board and her thought process will be, "I know Triffid and Dh don't really like him but maybe I shouldn't have told them all that stuff about him because he's still the DC's dad, and why can't they just suck it up" vs if we go, and don't say anything rude to him, if he tries to accuse of things her thought process is "hang on, but Tired and Brother were great - brought gifts, and food, helped cook and clean up, played with the children, talked to DP etc, what is he going on about?"

I've seen this play out a lot.

I do see where you're coming from and these aren't unreasonable concerns. But when I weigh up the risks of us not going vs us actually going, I am absolutely certain going is the better choice for her and for us.

It sounds as if it's just enabling SIL to stay in this toxic relationship. I'd say sorry it's your choice to stay, and it's my choice not to observe it.

And it's really really not fair on your DC that Mum and Dad will spent the day walking on eggshells.

Kids do notice these things believe me. It makes me so cross when adults think kids don't notice these things. I am in my 40,'s and I am still affected by the similar toxic get togethers that were inflicted upon me. Please don't be under any allusion that in 20 years time your kids will speak of happy memories they spent in that house.

@theblacksheepandme but what may be an abusive relationship between partners does not me that the kids are affected or don't love both parents. They can still have happy memories.

I appreciate your experiences have been negative, theirs may not be, and they seem to have family members that care deeply for them and are planning activities to make the day go as well as possible.

And as someone that has been in abusive relationships, it doesn't matter if other people identify them as such. You have to leave when you are ready to leave, not when other people think you should. Just being there, letting her know there'll be no ' told u so' or judgement will help so much

I think that if we were with them all the time and it was impacting what my DC could/couldn't do etc, then of course, that makes sense. And without going into details we have done/not done things in the past to ensure they're not impacted.

Nephews DEFINITELY know there's a problem (and in fact, the negative impact on them is probably the main driver behind SIL starting to see the need to make changes). But if we're there, they get to play with their cousins, play with their aunts and uncles, get extra presents etc vs if we're not there and they have to just sit there with their morose father and zero Christmas joy.

@baileys6904's approach is definitely the one we take - we're not going to give her ultimatums in an attempt to force her to finally leave him. that's not going to help. We want her to know we're here and we're not going to judge her for finding it hard to leave.

Yup.

Life is too short to spend a second I the company of an abusive wanker.

Lead by example. Refuse to be around him.
By being there you are condoning his behaviour.

Find a way to let her know sir is always in tour thoughts and most welcome to come see you any time. And that you can make time to meet her out for coffee any time she wants if that will mean she can make excuses to be without him.

But say no to Christmas there. Well, unless you plan to use the time constructively and get her to leave him. Call him out for what he is and tell him to go fuck himself. But chances are that that she will have to side with him and that will cause you to lose her.

But don't break bread at a table with an abuser. Ever. Because every time you do, you condone his abuse.

@Shoxfordian

4. Don’t go there for Christmas

Sorry, meant to quote this.

@pinkbonbon and I can safely say, doing that will absolutely alienate the sister and force her further into isolation and needing help.

Been there, done that, I needed help and support, not judgement and ultimations

Ultimatums*

You don't have to spend Xmas with them. It's ok to upset people sometimes if it's necessary. They'll get over it.

@baileys6904
I think you misunderstood me as I was talking about the OP's children and not SIL.