Am I in the wrong?

[Thanksagainand]

Long and rambling, sorry. Just feel a bit crushed and anxious and need to pull myself out of it again.
Hello, for a few years I sell Christmas stuff on Etsy. Last year I made 3k and Dh got a bit excited - he usually makes it really difficult.
This year, well. I was hoping to make it a bigger thing, but have made some daft mistakes, and it’s not grown as much as I’d have liked, so I’ll take about the same.
I do wonder if it’s partly due to Dp wanting walks/ lunch hours etc. He seems to think it’s ok to come and stand around and gets irritated if I’m busy. He works very hard 8-6 ( I think too hard) then gets tired and grumpy. I work on my stuff 10 - 4 then it’s family stuff/ house. I am also working alone which means I’m learning a lot in a short time so it hasn’t grown but is about the same. It has however given me a bit of confidence by all the wonderful comments and reviews. I feel that that comes crashing down when Dp comments. But he says I’m being silly and need to get a job.
. I want a job, but lost a lot of confidence for various reasons.. Ideally I’d like a job but as I’ve been a sahm. For ages I’m a bit behind on the skill set. Dp thinks I should have a top career . I think he thinks I’m not tying, would rather swan around, should automatically get a top job.and is not happy at whatever I do..work in a shop? ‘It’s not enough to make a difference ‘ ‘ it won’t lead to anything’ so I thought if I set up an Etsy thing it gives me a reason to learn skills that hopefully make me more employable.
We spend HOURS talking about his work, and he was very ill so has been very depressed. I don’t feel we discuss mine at all, and if we do I always feels like he’s criticising. I can’t help wondering if he criticises when I’m not there to cook, clean or I am imagining it. I just mentioned that I’ll be doing orders all day and maybe he’d take dd to her sport ( I always do as he is busy with work ) that led to this conversation..
Dp,’how many orders have you got?
it takes a long time this.’
Me ( sounding a bit irritated) ‘ stop criticising. now is not the time to criticise. do it after I’ve got these orders out."
DP,
‘ It doesn’t help the family’
me, ‘It helps me’
Dp ‘so fuck the family then.
(as walks away..) Ill make breakfast then. ‘

I don’t know if I’m being stupid to want to do this, obviously i will look for work after Xmas. Just find it such a struggle to keep building up my confidence and enthusiasm, then we go for a walk and he is all depressed which means I need to waste time getting myself happy again. In order to do anything. This isn’t making me rich, but it does make me feel human. Also it’s in my area of expertise and I am pretty good at it, so, you know, I’m helpful.
Now I’ve wasted time recovering from that conversation writing this! It’s just that he left me feeling worthless, stupid for trying, stupid for wasting my time. And anxious that he’s right.
Bugger I was really enjoying doing my lovely orders! People DO like what I’m trying to do!

If the boot was on the other foot, how would you feel? You going out to work umpteen hours a day doing a job you hate, and coming home to find nothing done. No dinner, cold house, wife fiddling around at her hobby. He doesn't want you to get a shop or cafe job because he knows you can do better. You used to have a career, so get up to date and start contributing.

I saw your PM. Is that all your own work? If so you are seriously incredibly talented. There's got to be a local support group for creative sole traders/women starting out in business. It sounds like you have all the creative ideas, you just need a bit of support getting a marketing/sales strategy in place. Often these types of programmes are free, it would be a great way of boosting your confidence, will get you out of the house, get you meeting people. What would you think about doing something like that?

Its one rule for him and quite another for you.

He can do what he likes and when he likes. The power and control balance in this relationship is well in his favour which is how he likes it as well. He has a problem with anger, your anger, when you call him out on his unreasonable behaviours. These types of men also hate women, ALL of them.

"I know other blokes get fed up with wives once kids are old enough for them to work".

Really?. Your man has actively attempted to stop you from working outside the home in a cafe on the basis its not good enough. He would rather keep you on a tight leash at home so he can keep a further eye on you; he really does want to keep you in a cage of his own paranoid making.

@Thanksagainand

How do I know it’s coercive control and not just him being frustrated? I know other blokes get fed up with wives once kids are old enough for them to work.

It's coercive control via him being frustrated. They're not mutually exclusive.

The issue is in the conflation of 'what you need to earn' with your emotions; your self esteem. If you want to solve it, sit down as a couple, work out what you need to earn, and then work out how to do it. It doesn't matter how, as long as you're comfortable with it.

'Am I wrong or is he wrong' isn't a question in a healthy relationship, and the fact that you're asking shows that you see 2 opponents, rather than a team working towards a joint goal.

What would happen to him if you said 'Lets sit down and make an agreement about each of our responsibilities re household chores/childcare/earnings, so that it's all nice and clear to us both'?

He is worried if you have cash you have the means to Ltb.

Would love to see your work op. I'm a marketeer so happy to give you some pointers.

I'd love to see your shop too

Sorry, I’ve been busy! It’s thrown me as well that you’d like to see my shop! Allenbaby, what an amazing response! Thank you, I was feeling like I was doing Facebook tat.

Thanks for all your comments. It’s good to have other views shown to you. Ugh, can’t think clearly atm. Will write more tomorrow. Sorry!

Have a look for a NatWest accelerator course near you. They run an amazing FREE 6 month course for entrepreneurs where you get workshops, a mentor and lots of advice to help build your business. If there’s one local to you, hurry as I think applications for the next one close this week.

Thanks! Just had a look, but you need an investment of 100k. Sounds wonderful tho.

Oooh now I want to see your shop, too! I’m a female business owner and it’s hard work. You need support to do something like that, not someone who sits around and complains.

It sounds as though your husband is controlling you and not being very nice. He must see that you taking on some high flying job would mean compromises at home, it sounds as though he’d like you to earn loads of money but nor change any of his home comforts. Also, his mental health is not your responsibility, it’s his. Yes, be supportive but those who berate you for not being there for him don’t know how much it can really drag you down.

I think he feels threatened by your talents and success with the Etsy shop. With confidence and potentially a good income from this, he knows you have what you need to leave him. He puts you down to keep you trapped.

I think that you do need to make money. Not because he says so, but because it would give you options you may not currently have.

In my area (Herts) there’s a company called STANTA that give business owners free advice and even grants. See if you can find something similar in your area. I got £3k towards a new website and branding.

I was the sole earner for most of my marriage and my ex-H had lots of ideas for businesses that made very little money.

It’s exhausting and scary being the only one earning. He wanted me to encourage his ideas but after a few years I just felt resentful. He had all the time in the world to play at “photography” or whatever the latest one was and I had to work. It would have been easier if cooked, kept house etc.. but he didn’t do that either. Eventually we got divorced and he magically got a full time job.

I feel sorry for your DP here. It sounds like he isn’t expressing it well but he is feeling massively under pressure from carrying the family finances alone.

Well I’m going to disagree with most and say it’s not your job to keep propping your DH up emotionally. I also believe that any work done in the house and home and childcare has a monetary value and is often overlooked. If you had to pay for wraparound childcare whilst you work would you be better off. It actually costs money to go to work.
Develop your business and tell him you are going to carry on with it. It gives you pleasure and £3k contributes to the finances. If he doesn’t accept this then you have a problem.

@XmasElf10

I was the sole earner for most of my marriage and my ex-H had lots of ideas for businesses that made very little money.

It’s exhausting and scary being the only one earning. He wanted me to encourage his ideas but after a few years I just felt resentful. He had all the time in the world to play at “photography” or whatever the latest one was and I had to work. It would have been easier if cooked, kept house etc.. but he didn’t do that either. Eventually we got divorced and he magically got a full time job.

I feel sorry for your DP here. It sounds like he isn’t expressing it well but he is feeling massively under pressure from carrying the family finances alone.

I think I agree with this

It’s no uncommon to see posts where (the man) has a “hobby” or is “self employed” but not really making it pay and the (woman) with the job and financial pressure is told he needs to step up, and she should leave him

How many hours do you work for your 3k? Is that profit or revenue? Be honest, is your profit per hour even minimum wage?

@BillMasen every small business owner will have been on less than minimum wage at the start. Does that mean nobody should have a go at making a success of it? My profits are now in 6 figures but there’s no way I’d have made it to this point without a lot of late nights and a supportive husband.

[quote Nedclarity]@BillMasen every small business owner will have been on less than minimum wage at the start. Does that mean nobody should have a go at making a success of it? My profits are now in 6 figures but there’s no way I’d have made it to this point without a lot of late nights and a supportive husband.[/quote]
Yes but for every viable business getting off the ground there’s another that will never be more than a slightly paid hobby. I don’t know which type this is but I think it’s likely to be the latter.

I’m going to guess that to make your business work as a start up you didn’t just work 10-4 for 3k, and you had a clear view of what was needed to grow, and a plan.

Op needs to honestly think about whether she has a business or a hobby.

I think you've both got to see where the other one is coming from here.

If he is the sole earner and worried about finances as others say, then I can well imagine that its irritating when someone puts a lot of effort in and brings home spending money, no matter how much they enjoy it...that sounds more like a hobby unless you have serious and realistic plans to expand. And while you're not earning much, yes your 'job' is to do the house stuff.

He however should be less grumpy and criticising you less. It's slightly annoying but not a disaster if its 6pm and dinner isnt cooked yet.

The worst thing is though his attitude to you getting a job, it's just not realistic and it's just going to make you feel like shit. If you've been out of work for a long time then it's very very hard practically and emotionally to rejoin the workforce and its unrealistic to expect you to walk into a high earning job. Where are these jobs he is telling you to apply for? You need to sit down and discuss this with him, and agree a way forward, or just tell him you wont engage in any conversation where he wants to sap your confidence further. When he says that 'x job doesnt pay enough' is this just his opinion, or is it because the family income wouldn't be increased enough to cover the additional costs of wraparound care? Or is it that youd be looking at evening and weekend work and he would have to do more with the kids? Or is it because he feels certain work is 'beneath you'? He needs to be honest about it all.

If you don't want to throw yourself into building your business into a viable income then maybe you could post what your old industry is and people could respond with ideas on directions that you could take your career in

It is also relevant what he considers dinner to be ready at 6.00 pm. Is it a roast that takes up time or a quick wrap or taco you can have in 10 mins.
He’s not valuing the Ops time and how she wants to spend it.

Oh OP send me the link! I really want to know what it is. I still have loads of Christmas presents to buy and I'm desperate for ideas.
I'm always so envious of people who have their own businesses and make money doing something they enjoy (I wish I had some sort of talent like that!). I have a stressful job which I don't enjoy, but it pays well and I can't afford to leave so I can understand your husbands frustration, but he sounds horrible in the way he undermines you, especially when you're trying to get another job. Does he expect you to just walk back into your old job? Does he picture you working from home and being able to do all the housework/kid stuff rather than working awkward shop/cafe hours? Have you had a proper chat about his expectations and the reality of your situation?
Financial independence is so important, and I would be trying to get back into work (and once you're more independent evaluating how much value he adds to your life), but please don't give up on your hobby/business! It's a lovely thing to be talented enough to make something and I'm sure your products make your customers very happy.

Thank you all, a lot to digest! I think everyone is right. I get that he is frustrated at being the earner.he sees himself as being encouraging. But I also wonder if he is disrupting my attempts. He may even not know he is??
He’s cross because I didn’t follow his suggestions - they were good ones - and I found that I didn’t have the time to do all id planned - if I am too busy to go for a lunch hour or whatever, I get a passive aggressive , ‘oh I’ll go on my own then’ then I get,’ why haven’t you done x’ err.. I just saw this www.google.co.uk/search?q=dr+ramani+slightly+narcissists&client=safari&hl=en-gb&ei=gPq3YZj9DdOW8gLtrI2oCg&oq=Dr+Ramani+slightly+narci&gs_lcp=Cgxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAQARgIMggIIRAWEB0QHjIICCEQFhAdEB4yCAghEBYQHRAeMggIIRAWEB0QHjIICCEQFhAdEB4yCAghEBYQHRAeMggIIRAWEB0QHjIICCEQFhAdEB4yCAghEBYQHRAeMggIIRAWEB0QHjoHCAAQRxCwAzoHCAAQsAMQQzoICAAQ5AIQsAM6CgguEMgDELADEEM6BAguEEM6BAgAEEM6CggAELEDEIMBEEM6BQgAEIAEOgUILhCRAjoHCAAQgAQQCjoGCAAQFhAeOgUIIRCgAToHCCEQChCgAToECCEQFUoECEEYAEoECEYYAVD1G1j_zAFgivgBaAFwAngAgAHoAYgB3QqSAQYxNC4wLjGYAQCgAQHIARLAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp
From another thread. I’m wondering if this is what’s going on? His dad is short tempered and controlling and his sis is a drama queen. He’s not aggressive, he used to shout a lot but doesn’t now. Well apart from just now!
Sorry! Just venting. And deleted a great long ponder! 😀

It sounds as though he's deliberately criticising everything you do, putting you down, getting irritated when you're busy working. I'm not surprised your confidence is on the floor.

From your examples, the way he speaks to you is nasty. I agree with others, this is coercive control. He's sabotaging your efforts and putting you down constantly to "keep you in your place".

I guarantee his attitude to you won't change if you worked full time. He will still put you down and criticise everything you do.

Your not the only one.

My partner spent 15 years building a company and sold it for 13 million.

(No we don't have that amount of money)

He ran the whole company, did all big boss things that people go to Business school to
do - he made it a very successful Biotech business that was purchased by a Big American company (they make the vaccines now!)

But can he get a job somewhere and be employed? NOPE.

I don't know what happens in life, but it seems being a SAHM or an ex business owner means you can't possible qualify to be employed by someone else.

We have to keep reinvesting our money and working for ourselves, sometimes it would be nice to be given a chance to work for someone and go home at the end of the day.

Op I’m still not really understanding your business. I guess you do something creative/make something then sell it?

Have you worked out the time it takes to mae the thing? The market rate for what it could sell for? Whether there’s a realistic way to make the income per hour sensible? How it could scale?

Are you selling a product (so could be made, automated etc) or a skill (your creativity)?

It’s true some people have a business idea, work hard and scale it up. A large investment in time early on but long term prospects. Others have a skill but ultimately it’s not a career. You need an honest think about what yours is

Just look at that woman from Dragon’s Den who is now on Strictly. She made her millions selling craft kits (I think). Bill, you can’t make assumptions knowing nothing about this person’s talents or business. I’ve been repeatedly told by accountants and others that I will ‘never be wealthy’ in my line of business. I am doing pretty well, and I didn’t necessarily have a clear business plan at the start.

The point is, is op’s husband on her side or actively working against her?

Op, you really need to have a good conversation with your husband and I think a couples therapist could help you facilitate this.

@Thanksagainand

Thanks! Just had a look, but you need an investment of 100k. Sounds wonderful tho.

I think that’s a separate thing. When you click on that link it takes your to a peer to peer coaching page for small groups of 5. This was a whole cohort of 30+ people and was free for all - there were interviews to select who got on, so they didn’t end up with too many of the same type of business, but otherwise no real criteria. Have another look!