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Original poster

Is this just to be expected in a law firm? Or am I paranoid?

27 replies

Noteenoughh · 06/12/2021 22:04

I work in a law firm. I’m only a few years qualified and work for an international firm. I find the working environment quite toxic. I’m only a few years qualified but find managers/partners difficult and demanding and whilst the pay is good (68k) I spent my entire week off last week while abroad, logging in each day as it’s just not worth the hassle not to/give them any room to get at you.

Despite working late and always being available I find that it’s rarely rewarded and I honestly feel I’m on the cusp of being got at or criticised at all times. It’s so competitive but also quite nasty too. There is zero room for error even when it’s something administrative that has no consequences.

Just feeling down about it all really. I used to be so excited about work and the reality is that you get used and abused! Anyone else find this or is it just me?!

OP posts:
GonePenguin · 06/12/2021 22:09

Yeah, that’s just PP. Either go in-house or do the same hours for double pay at a US firm.

FluffMagnet · 06/12/2021 22:10

Sounds pretty normal to me (sadly). Try going in-house. If you pick the company well, it is like night and day to private practice.

Scautish · 06/12/2021 22:12

I’m not a lawyer but have worked with many in-house lawyers and I get the impression it’s a much, much better life balance than in a practice.

ChampagneCommunist · 06/12/2021 22:14

Yep, and it's not just international firms.

12 hour days 6+ days per week is standard in mid-sized and smaller firms too

gelatodipistacchio · 06/12/2021 22:15

That's normal. It's a terrible work environment.

Original poster
Noteenoughh · 06/12/2021 22:15

It’s the people I find so awful. Not all of them obviously but the passive aggressive management, the reference to snowflake generations (not sure I’m in that category but I still find it offensive). We have student loans and have to have phones on us at all times…a different picture to those in management when they were starting out!

I find it quite a toxic place and like they are waiting to trip you up. Maybe in house is the answer.

OP posts:
MarciaDidia · 06/12/2021 22:21

In my experience that is not normal these days (maybe five or ten years ago). You should move firm. Yes, the hours will be long working for big international firms, but the culture should not be toxic and there should be an expectation/encouragement that you will take time off to recharge.

SSOYS · 06/12/2021 22:26

The hours sound pretty normal but the people don’t- the “snowflake” stuff is completely inappropriate for a workplace. I always did long hours and there were high expectations but the people I worked with were thoughtful, highly intelligent and kind.

Might be time for a chat with a recruitment consultant. Moving in house might suit you but whether this is a good stage in your career to do so will depend on your area.

Sunsetred · 06/12/2021 22:36

I work in house! I would never go back to a private firm. There's no time recording, it's well paid and it's literally 9-5.

milly74 · 06/12/2021 22:42

@Noteenoughh

I work in a law firm. I’m only a few years qualified and work for an international firm. I find the working environment quite toxic. I’m only a few years qualified but find managers/partners difficult and demanding and whilst the pay is good (68k) I spent my entire week off last week while abroad, logging in each day as it’s just not worth the hassle not to/give them any room to get at you.

Despite working late and always being available I find that it’s rarely rewarded and I honestly feel I’m on the cusp of being got at or criticised at all times. It’s so competitive but also quite nasty too. There is zero room for error even when it’s something administrative that has no consequences.

Just feeling down about it all really. I used to be so excited about work and the reality is that you get used and abused! Anyone else find this or is it just me?!

Law firms can be toxic. But not all.
SunburstsOrMarbleHalls · 07/12/2021 03:36

DD left a city firm that quite frankly had a borderline abusive attitude to staff. Had it not been for the pandemic and home working I think she would have left law altogether.

The hours were obscene, a 17 hour day was considered totally normal. Weekends were a rarity and not expected. Maybe if it was a special occasion you might be lucky and able to leave at 8pm and uninterrupted holidays were unusual.

Once as a trainee she went to work on a Thursday morning (after finishing at 2am) worked all day and night and was still in the office on Friday at 3pm when she had to ask if she could go home as she felt faint.

During her time in the office she was getting frequent nosebleeds (a partner commented it was a sign that her body was weak) her hair was falling out with stress and her mental health was on the floor.

When the pandemic hit and the work from home order came it meant although her workload was similar she could cope better as she was physically removed from the toxic work environment.

She basically had to be available 24/7 365 days per year. She was paid a lot of money but she knew that it was not the job or lifestyle she wanted.

She is now at a firm with a much better work life balance, (it was the main thing she asked her recruiter to focus on) Her hours will never be 9/5 but they are vastly improved and she gets a full weekend off. When deals are closing she doesn't mind working extra as she knows it is temporary. She has taken an eye-watering pay cut but she is at the beginning of her career and has no regrets and is so much happier. She still earns a great salary and is motivated to give it her best as she enjoys working there. She only has to do 2 days per week in the office and can work the rest from home if she wants. The attitude in work is friendly, collaborative and senior associates /partners mentor junior colleagues well after qualification. The work is challenging and the expectation is high but so is staff morale.

Just like the PP said law firms can be toxic but not all. Maybe reach out to a recruiter and see what else is available as it sounds as if your current firm is not a nice place to be at all.

CayrolBaaaskin · 07/12/2021 03:43

Private practice is generally a toxic environment. Unfortunately what you described is not unusual at all. Definitely agree with looking at in house roles

RedRobin100 · 07/12/2021 03:44

The hard work and long hours is to be expected, yes. But I don’t agree that you should have to put up with a toxic work atmosphere like that.
The culture of firms can be very different. Perhaps a move to somewhere with a better rep would be better in long run.

I have just left an international firm to go in-house. It was the toughest decision because whilst it was hard work, I loved the firm, the people and the management were ( for the most part) supportive, relatable and definitely put a lot of effort into fostering a good working environment and ethos.

However, I guess it’s not just firm to firm, but wil can also get very different attitudes team to team within a firm depending on who is managing it.

For your own sanity and mental health you might be best looking into a move. That environment does not sound pleasurable or healthy to work in

Ciaobaby92 · 07/12/2021 04:20

I think we might work for the same place, seriously. I've been in Big Law 20+ years and less than six months at this firm, I feel the exact same way about the culture. All law firms are stressful in one way or another, but this one is like something from the 80's. Replete with mean girls, back stabbers, creeps, unbearably long days and ridiculous expectations. No it's not really normal. The firm I worked at before was lovely, and I'm kicking myself for leaving.

Rangoon · 07/12/2021 05:11

I so remember that feeling that you're on the cusp of being got at or criticised at all times. I worked at two firms just like that. I joined government and though we work hard, all nighters are super rare and we actually have weekends. The atmosphere is collegial and people actually help each other out. I'd never go back to private practice.

RumHoney · 07/12/2021 05:53

I'm in house now but did 20 years in PP first and never found it quite that bad. I was at regional firms though. In house is still much more relaxed though!

YourenutsmiLord · 07/12/2021 06:19

Perhaps some counselling so that you don't take the behaviour of others personally - that it's them that's angry/stressed/bitter and it's not you.

HettySunshine · 07/12/2021 06:29

I work at a law firm but it is nothing like that. What field of law are you in? We do sometimes work long hours but we are treated really well - the partners frequently order food for us if we are working late, we have a 'fizzy Friday' once a month where we get together in the board room at 4 pm with drinks and nibbles to talk/ moan: chat about everything.

Short notice leave is almost always approved for family stuff/ personal reasons etc.

I think you are at a bad firm.

EnidFrighten · 07/12/2021 06:43

You get 68k, they get to own you

It's a shit deal in view of us all being mortal and unable to ever reclaim our years of youth and health once they're gone, but there it is

I left law, btw!

poblwc · 07/12/2021 07:00

To echo PPs - Definitely speak to a recruiter and make sure they know that culture/work life balance are very important to you.

Law is always going to be stressful but not all firms have a toxic culture. You may have to consider a pay cut (but not necessarily tbh) - but what's the point in having loads of money if you're miserable?

Thisisworsethananticpated · 07/12/2021 09:17

Change firm
Not every firm is toxic and nasty
I work in professional services and it’s no way as nasty as this (very piktical though )
Congrats on such a great salary
The only way is
Up

Kylereese · 07/12/2021 09:20

I’m at a firm in the midlands and we don’t have this culture at all. The money is no where as good as what you’re on but you genuinely only work a 35 hour week, so if you divided your salary between your hours we’re probably on the same.

Alonelonelylonersbadidea · 07/12/2021 12:11

I moved in-House. It's how it is in corporate law for any Big Firm.

I'm happier, less stressed, more varied work load and earn as much.

Writerkelly · 07/12/2021 14:37

I think it’s just private practice. I work for a charity now it’s completely different. I finish work when I finish work

Inmypjsagain · 07/12/2021 14:40

@ChampagneCommunist

Yep, and it's not just international firms.

12 hour days 6+ days per week is standard in mid-sized and smaller firms too

Agree sadly! I’m looking to leave law entirely, as are a lot of my colleagues. Just a pain to retrain!

Hope you find somewhere that pays well and has a good work life balance x

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