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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Was this financial abuse.

44 replies

threebillboards · 04/12/2021 20:14

My brother married, who we thought, the nicest woman ever after leaving a really abusive relationship.
They were together 12 years (married) and he moved into her house (owned outright due to a divorce settlement). DB poured money into the house, her adult children, and supported her financially throughput. She didn't work, insisted on a joint account she put nothing into, constantly promised to put him on the deeds if he extended the house, bought her new cars and her DD the same.

She died a few months ago and DB was distraught at the loss of his soulmate, but it turns out she left a will (which he knew nothing about) leaving him nothing, and all to her DD and DS. They are adults and self supporting. Now they are threatening to throw him out of their house to sell it. It's in the hands of solicitors so that's not the issue.

The issue is DB still regards her as his soulmate and hovers between missing the woman he loved and is sure loved him, and utter despair that she thought so little of him she would have seen him on the street.

I listen to this and want to just shout at him she was a lying, thieving, conniving bitch who he shouldn't waste time on, but he is mourning this woman, the life he had with her, and the loss of her DCs who he felt were his friends. I'm scared he will do something bad, and don't know what to say. I am fed up with his devotion to her, his utter blindness to who she really was, and angry with him for trusting someone so blindly. I want to support him but don't know what to say for the best. I've advised bereavement counselling but he doesn't want to go.

OP posts:
threebillboards · 06/12/2021 10:15

@Happy1982ish Lots of incorrect assumptions there. The adult children thought the world of him when he was giving them thousands of pounds for house deposits. They also 'appeared' to genuinely like him and care for him, but surely you've heard of situations where money and greed take over? DB has no intention of depriving them of their inheritance but just wants to live in his home (they never lived there and have their own homes) and leave it to them on his death, just as @Tanfastic says could have been done legally and fairly. Ironically the adult DC will now get far less than they would have originally as DB is legally entitled to far more, and he now wants nothing to do with them.

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threebillboards · 06/12/2021 10:20

@Happy1982ish I've also seen 12 years of social media posts of all the fantastic times they've had together, and how happy all of the, look, especially on big family occasions, so I don't doubt they were happy, including the late W, but I just think she had a ruthless streak he never saw because he didn't want to rock the boat, and ask about some of the finances she dealt with.

To me there was an element 'go along with everything I say and want and I will make you happy. Question the finances and I can withdraw my love'. DB is very insecure and needy, so I can see he was emotionally blackmailed without even realising it. He is the ultimate people pleaser

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JustThisLastLittleBit · 06/12/2021 10:40

I’m not sure that making him face the reality of what’s happened will help him OP. Grieving for what he had/thought he had is a process he just has to go through. All you can do is listen, hold his hand, mop his brow - he doesn’t need your interpretation as he is searching for his own. Away from him you can rant and work out your frustration etc. I’m sorry you’re both going through this. He is lucky to have such a caring sister.

GrumpyLivesInMyHouseNow · 06/12/2021 11:18

The problem when people do these types of things is you can't resolve them and it's difficult to come to terms with it because that person is dead. My dh had a similar situation with his parents will and his brother. He still struggles now as he can task his parents 'why' and will never get closure from them.

All you can do is support your db, I know you are angry on his behalf, but it's pointless, point your db in the direction which is best for him, support him whilst he goes through his grief.

I'm glad he's seeing a solicitor, he can contest the will as they are married. I doubt a judge will agree to kick him out of a house he can prove he paid into. Certainly after a long marriage. I'm surprised she got the will signed off legally as I was told, when I did mine, that I had to make provisions for everyone, dc and dh (not blood related).

ComtesseDeSpair · 06/12/2021 12:18

Perhaps you and he need to view it in from a different angle, which doesn’t involve the worst assumptions of her that she cannot defend or explain. If your brother is in a strong enough financial position to have supported his wife not working for over a decade, poured money into extending the house, and regularly spent thousands on gifts for family members, then she wouldn’t envision him being penniless on the streets if she arranged her will to provide for her children. Perhaps she made the quite reasonable assumption that he would be capable of providing for himself, and made her plans accordingly; that this doesn’t mean she didn’t love him or was conniving or would have seen him on the streets, but that she didn’t expect that someone who sounds like a reasonably wealthy or at least well-off man, would expect to live out the rest of his life in an asset she had earmarked for her children. If, as you indicate, they didn’t discuss wills or money when she was alive, then even if your brother isn’t quite as affluent as you’ve made him appear, it’s probable she assumed it. None of this means that she didn’t love or care for him.

This sounds like the sort of situation which would benefit from family mediation (and mediation will almost certainly be recommended by your DB’s solicitor, even if they agree he has any chance of contesting the will) if the adult children are amenable. For what it’s worth, I don’t think his expectation that he get to live in his deceased wife’s house until his own death is a reasonable one, and I’m not surprised her children are responding aggressively to this. That could mean them waiting decades for their inheritance, after him being married to their mother for what really was not a very long marriage – however much they liked or tolerated him as their mother’s husband, he is after all just their mother’s husband. But this is where family mediation might help to get feelings and emotions and reasoning into the open and for all parties to listen to and understand the other’s views; and perhaps to negotiate a more reasonable legal outcome – such as him being granted the right to stay in the house for a couple of more years whilst he sorts himself out rather than leave right away, or some kind of fair financial settlement recognising that the house they are inheriting and therefore its value was increased by work he paid for.

threebillboards · 06/12/2021 12:43

@Happy1982ish No definitely not, just needy to the point of idiocy.

@joecormac Its in the hands of a good solicitor experienced in contentious wills, and he has a good claim under the Inheritance Act which he has no option except to pursue.

@JustThisLastLittleBit Thank you. Its not the legal side I am concerned with, it's the emotional impact its having on him. I'm sure it must feel like this if a partner discovers an affair and the marriage ends because of it. All the same emotions of disbelief, betrayal and financial upheaval involved. You think someone loves you and then find out they really didn't. Add to that he can never have answers and understand her reasons for leaving him with nothing after such a long time together. Just really sad, but I won't say negative things about her unless he brings it up. @GrumpyLivesInMyHouseNow Definitely the sense of betrayal is worst. The will was a legal one but not via a solicitor otherwise she would have been told she can't leave her spouse unprovided for, as you say.

@ComtesseDeSpair DB has a secure job, but 2 years ago had a heart attack so had to cut his hours and is not in the best of health any longer, which of course his W knew about. So his income has fallen and he would struggle now to get a mortgage on his own. If, in the preceding 12 years, he had put all his savings and divorce settlement into a home of his own and not her house, he would have a comfortable home which he would be near to owning outright. Instead she tried to will it all away to her DCs.

He is entitled to live in the house until his death and then the DCs would inherit from the life trust. Thats not really this issue concerning me, rather his emotional state at the moment. The next legal step is formal mediation which he is prepared for.

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threebillboards · 06/12/2021 12:46

FWIW. His solicitor (and the law apparently) say the first duty of the deceased is to her spouse.

but i really don't wan't to discuss the legal side further. Its the emotional toll its taking on him.

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ComtesseDeSpair · 06/12/2021 12:59

In terms of feelings and emotions, I’d continue to encourage him towards bereavement counselling. And if it’s taking the emotional toll on you that you describe, I think there has to be some element of tough love involved: you aren’t a therapist and he can’t expect to outpour his feelings of desertion and rejection onto you and for you to try to console him, if he isn’t prepared to also seek professional help for his feelings.

As an aside, there is somebody who has been posting on and off on the Legal board for about two years now who has a male friend in an almost identical situation to your brother’s, except the beneficiaries of the inheritance are (I think) the deceased wife’s mother and daughter. It might be worth trying to find her threads, as I believe her friend has recently been given a date for mediation with the family members, as he has discovered it hasn’t been quite as straightforward as an entitlement for a husband to inherit from his wife, if the will was made after the marriage. If you PM her, she may be able to share her experiences in both the legal side and the emotional and reconciliation side, as I recall she is also deeply upset for her friend.

JustThisLastLittleBit · 06/12/2021 13:30

Maybe she just didn’t fully understand what she was doing when she didn’t include him in the will? Or she trusted her DC to do the right thing by him without demur? I agree it must be agonising for him to not know for sure…

threebillboards · 06/12/2021 13:48

@ComtesseDeSpair Thank you, I'll do that. He definitely needs bereavement counselling and I'll ask him again to get help. I think McMillan may be able to help.

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threebillboards · 06/12/2021 13:52

@JustThisLastLittleBit Yes, she asked the DCs to 'look after dad when I'm gone', so I'm sure she expected them to do the right thing and not this. I'm sure she did love him as he loved her which is why the whole thing is so awful. Everyone who knows them said they were the happiest couple they're ever met, and things were the same behind closed doors. No one can believe she did this, so I do think it's all on the DCs, who were telling him to pack up the day after their DM died.

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aLittleL1fe · 06/12/2021 13:54

I think that from emotional support point of view you need to help your brother to see the practical side of the current situation for what it is - he needs to live somewhere etc. and help him to resolve it. Blaming others doesn't help even when the blame is 'deserved' (if that makes sense), blame is still a poisonous, bitter, destructive feeling regardless.

Happy1982ish · 06/12/2021 13:59

[quote threebillboards]@JustThisLastLittleBit Yes, she asked the DCs to 'look after dad when I'm gone', so I'm sure she expected them to do the right thing and not this. I'm sure she did love him as he loved her which is why the whole thing is so awful. Everyone who knows them said they were the happiest couple they're ever met, and things were the same behind closed doors. No one can believe she did this, so I do think it's all on the DCs, who were telling him to pack up the day after their DM died. [/quote]
So what different to your OP

* listen to this and want to just shout at him she was a lying, thieving, conniving bitch who he shouldn't waste time on*

threebillboards · 06/12/2021 15:26

@Happy1982ish I still think she was a lying, conniving bitch, judging from the way she lied to him regarding finances, but I have to accept she was also very kind and loving too! If I can't get my head around this, how on earth can he? I see saw between hating what she did to him and utter bewilderment at this Will.

The truth is somewhere in the middle and I think she was basically a loving person, but very much on her own terms. If DB did what she asked financially (which he did), increased the value of her house, financed her credit cards, financed her children etc, then she was the nicest person imaginable to him. Hence all the lovely holidays, days out etc, and DB was incredibly happy. My suspicion is that if he had demanded she put him on the deeds as she promised so many times, he would have seen a different side of her. DB being needy and naive was happy to buy her love because who doesn't love someone who is giving you everything you asked for?

We'll never know as he never challenged anything, but left all the finances in her hands. He told her he would not make a will as he wanted her to have everything he had.

OP posts:
Happy1982ish · 06/12/2021 15:31

What was his financial situation before he married her?

threebillboards · 06/12/2021 15:46

@Happy1982ish

What was his financial situation before he married her?
Divorced with a large settlement, which he gave to her to build on to her house. Also lots of savings, and an inheritance from our mother, plus money from the sale of a business he wound up to move to a different part of the country because she wanted him away from his ex and with her. Most of which has gone on her and her DCs and into the house.
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threebillboards · 06/12/2021 15:47

And no, none of it was ring fenced or protected.

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Happy1982ish · 06/12/2021 15:55

To say he sounds financially naive would be an understatement. Quite astonishingly so.

If all works out OP, you need to spend a lot of time and energy providing him with some financially education and keeping a close eye on any future love interest!

threebillboards · 06/12/2021 16:12

@Happy1982ish With bells on!

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