Should i be concerned? (work related)

[AllGoodOverHere]

Hey All,

This is a strange one for me. I will try my best to be as quick but detailed as I can be.

I have been at my job for almost 10 months, I work in Sales and Marketing, I'm 25 and female. Everyone that I work with is really lovely and I feel super lucky to have landed a new job in the midst of Covid.

However, the company has a self-employed Sales Rep who pops in the office maybe every couple of months when needed. He mostly works remotely. He must be in his mid 50's and has worked for the company for many years, so they all really have a great relationship with him, professionally and personally.

This is where I am stuck, as I have picked up on situations that are making me feel extremely uncomfortable, and I'm not sure if it's just me, or if I have a right to feel the way I do. So please help me to understand.

Examples:

1.) I feel that he makes a beeline to come and chat with me at my desk when he is visiting the office because I do not see him doing this with anyone else. Generally, I have noticed that with everyone else, he is not as talkative or bubbly.

2.) There was an occasion where he was explaining in detail what other work he does outside of the company that I work for. He proceeded to go to his car and then gifted me a cosmetic bag that was crafted by a company he works for, which at first I declined but afterward I accepted as I thought it was a kind gesture.

He did this in front of everyone and once he had left, jokes by the guys in my office were made along the lines of "oh he must like you then!". This made me feel funny but I brushed it off.

3.) In the sector that we are in we attend shows and exhibitions which we often have to travel for. As I have only been here 10 months, I attended my first one a couple of months ago which was local to my home so I didn't have to travel luckily for me. I attended this with my manager and the said Sales rep.

I found once the show had ended, people were drinking and there was a more relaxed atmosphere, he began to ask a lot of questions. Rather personal, in relation to my family, what I do outside of work etc. He was also telling me about his children, his grandchildren, and his wife, so I truly believed this was innocent. He then asked, "if there was a man on the scene". At that moment, I felt a subconscious need to lie and say that there is, but I told the truth and said I was single. That evening, after a few drinks, my manager and the rep were going for a meal and they invited me along, I declined but the rep was very persistent and was almost begging me to come, as soon as he nipped to the bathroom my manager said it would be fine if I left and believe me I did.

This made me feel uneasy as I felt my manager had also waited for him to go to the bathroom before he told me to leave? Maybe I'm looking into this too deeply, but I feel confident that he knew I felt uncomfortable?

4.) He often would call the office and ask to speak to me but he now has my direct line and calls weekly for a chat. In all honesty, he has no reason to be calling me as it's not work-related, he asks how my day has been and for any updates with work. I have explained that unless it's a work-related issue, I am not ok with being sat on the phone having a chat. I am then met with a jokey response and to this day, he continues to call.

5.) I often have to send client emails and on the odd occasion, I have to copy him into an email he ALWAYS responds to me personally with an odd comment which I have NEVER responded to.

Examples that I am reading from my email right now are
"Well done for doing this"
"This is great, You're so clever"
"Thanks (then my second name)"

This one makes me feel particularly uncomfortable "You're a good girl" and one that he sent this afternoon which was "you are so sophisticated!!!".

As I said, I never respond to any of them so I don't know why he continues to do it.

6.) On one of the calls when he phoned a couple of weeks ago, he asked to take me for a "work drink". I said I'm pretty busy but we were all celebrating our Christmas do in a couple of weeks and I specifically mentioned that the whole company would then be able to get together to drink. He made a comment of "oh yeah but that's with everyone" I pretended not to hear this and he asked me to "text him" in regards to the Christmas thing. I didn't as I didn't want him to have my personal number.

7.) He called the office this afternoon and asked if I am around tomorrow as he is dropping in to see his "friend". I'm assuming he's referring to me, but luckily I'm working from home tomorrow, so I advised him that manager's name will be in and then he abruptly had to get off the phone.

There are a few more incidents also, but I would say these are the biggest concerns for me.

I am supposed to be attending an exhibition in January which I am expected to travel to and stay overnight for 2 days. I will be attending with my manager and the said Sales Rep. My instinct is screaming at me that I need to flag this with my company as, to be honest, I don't feel comfortable going especially if I have to stay overnight, as there will be drinking involved and I will be staying on my own.

Am I right to be feeling this? please do tell me if it sounds as if he is just being friendly and I have blown this out of proportion. I just can't help the uneasy feeling I get when he is around.

If I am right, how do I go about it without causing a huge problem/scene? I can't imagine they will fire him, so I have to continue working with him or find a new job?

Thank you :)

@Bookworm20

Some of the things on their own sound like he is just being friendly but adding it all up, I'd be feeling very uneasy too. Especially the asking you for a drink, that is crossing a line. Unless he was taking a few of you from the office at the same time, it just does not sit well.

I never normally recommend something like this, but I think its time to invent a boyfriend. You don't want to leave your job and he has been there years so not likely to be fired or pulled up on it as nothing as actually happened as such. So perhaps next time you see him mentioning you have a new boyfriend and you're sooooo happy. He might get the message then and back off and you can do your job without worrying about him trying to come onto you.

I completely agree that this is something you shouldn't have to do, but save from leaving your job to get the message across to this creep I am not sure what else you can try. If that doesn't work then you need to go to your manager, although as nothing has actually happened as such, it could be seen as him being friendly which he will most definitely play it that way.

Sometimes this is the only thing these types of men understand unfortunately. You no longer being 'on the market' so to speak. Its grim, but may be worth a shot.

I think this is 100% wrong. For a start, almost nothing in this is "him just being friendly". sending personal congratulatory emails that are both sexist and patronising is not okay. Pressuring you into going for a drink is not okay. Attempting to insist you spend time with him one on one is not okay. An imaginary boyfriend is not going to make him back off, and if anything, could lead to him feeling resentful and angry and turning on you.

Any time your manager/HR ask you if you think its' possible he was just being "friendly" respond with, "Does he email/say/call any one else in this way or with this frequency?" and repeat, endlessly. Because they will try to make out that you are being a bit oversensitive. But your'e not.

Start logging all the unnecessary contact he has with you, then show your manager the evidence of the problem. The manager should then have a word with him and nip it in the bud

Discuss with your manager - he appears to be aware but not 100% sure how to handle it. He needs to know without, a shred of doubt in his mind, that you find the sale reps behaviour inappropriate and then you both need to discuss ways to handle.

And yes the sales rep is completely out of line. Sales reps tend to have a character traits which makes them gregarious but this is sleazy. Any more interactions & personnel questions just deflect and ask him how the wife and grand kids are. Any more 'gifts' just say you think his wife would appreciate it more.

@TiredButDancing

Completely agree with you. I was just thinking the sales bloke is going to go do the whole I was just been friendly, supportive shite.
And if OP doesnt want the confrontation, which is totally understandable and also what may come from HR, his word against hers in some scenarios. the emails he'll play as being supportive, didn't realise it would be offensive etc etc.

May just be a worth a try to make it clear she is not interested and not available without the confrontation. Of course this should never have to happen, but a formal complaint may make her job/work life harder especially as hes been there years and unfortunately the company might be the sort to just brush it under the carpet and not actually resolve anything or even may make it worse for OP.

Yes speak to your manager. Don’t downplay his actions, give factual information as you have here and explain that while you understand some of these actions may be intended to be welcoming/friendly and network building you feel that together they are crossing the professional boundary and it is making you nervous particularly around events where there are only you 3. Your manager will need direction as to what you want him to do - such as

1. You will go to the event but you want your manager to be present I.e you leave together for the event and return together. You want him to check in with you periodically. That isn’t great and you shouldn’t have to do that but will emphasise how uncomfortable you are
2. He finds someone else to go - again not great and not sure whether this would impact your work and progression which absolutely should not happen.
3. You make a complaint and he is asked to reign his attentions in. TBH this may be the only way forward (along with either 1 or 2 for this event). There may be a process such as speaking with him before going formal but I think he needs to be told the impact it’s having and you should not need to do that alone.

I agree with speaking to manager. It sounds like he has noticed. He needs to have a word and ask him to stop contacting you unless appropriate and keep conversation work related on phone etc. Or .... you need to do this yourself face to face or email. You can be polite but firm and say you are not comfortable with his non work related comments and are not interested in socialising with him outside of work unless in a group on work related business.

[quote Bookworm20]@TiredButDancing

Completely agree with you. I was just thinking the sales bloke is going to go do the whole I was just been friendly, supportive shite.
And if OP doesnt want the confrontation, which is totally understandable and also what may come from HR, his word against hers in some scenarios. the emails he'll play as being supportive, didn't realise it would be offensive etc etc.

May just be a worth a try to make it clear she is not interested and not available without the confrontation. Of course this should never have to happen, but a formal complaint may make her job/work life harder especially as hes been there years and unfortunately the company might be the sort to just brush it under the carpet and not actually resolve anything or even may make it worse for OP.[/quote]
@bookworm20, I don't mean to be banging on at you but I don't think you get it really. Of course he's going to say he was just being friendly, but it's pretty obvious that that is not true and just because that's going to be his argument, doesn't mean she has to accept it. It's a poor argument - he has consistently used language and pressure that is sexist and predatory and he has consistently singled her out vs other people.

It is absolutely true that OP's manager/HR team might not be willing to deal with it properly, but she shouldn't just not try.

Similarly, creating an imaginary boyfriend does not solve the problem. This man clearly thinks he has some right to her attention and time. I think the chances are that the imaginary boyfriend will lead to one of two scenarios. Scenario 1 he becomes resentful and jealous and attempts to "punish" op. This could be by talking against her, sabotaging her work, making unpleasant comments etc. Scenario 2 he uses the new boyfriend as an excuse to continue harassing her but in a slightly different way, "ooh, your boyfriend must love that outfit" or "I'd love to take you for a drink but maybe your boyfriend wouldn't like that."

It is NOT OP's responsibility to "manage" this man's behaviour.

Hey All!

Thank you so much for all of your comments.

You have all been incredibly helpful and I have already started typing up my post with dates and any other information I think is important to advise to my HR.

To be honest, after witnessing how my manager handled the situation at the event I don't particularly feel comfortable approaching him about my concerns. However, my HR is the daughter of the man who owns the company and she is really lovely and accomodating so I feel like I will be comfortable enough to speak to her about it.

Yesterday I worked from home and as expected he popped into the office. I only know this as he sent me yet another email upon leaving the office to say he had "missed his little friend in the office today and had left some chocolates in the office for everyone".
I didn't reply, again this could be completely innocent but I'm not your friend and it makes me uncomfortable.

I'm working from home again today and my HR is in on Monday so I will approach it then. I do have some "friends" in the office who I could speak to about it, but I am worried as it is such a small office I don't want gossip to begin.

I have had a few people, friends, suggest that I should assert myself a little more and put it very "cut-throat" that I am not interested and that his advances are making me uncomfortable, however, would it be in my best interest to approach my HR first?

Again, thank you so much for all of your comments x

Your HR person sounds the perfect person to speak to me. You don't need to make it an official complaint at this point, merely a conversation to voice your concerns and a request for advice on how to handle the situation as he is making you feel uncomfortable. Good luck

Yesterday I worked from home and as expected he popped into the office. I only know this as he sent me yet another email upon leaving the office to say he had "missed his little friend in the office today and had left some chocolates in the office for everyone".
I didn't reply, again this could be completely innocent but I'm not your friend and it makes me uncomfortable.

This is NOT innocent. To refer to a grown woman, old enough to his daughter as his "little friend" is, at best, patronising and infantilising and 100% inappropriate in a work environment.

If you are the type who feels comfortable saying calmly and clearly, "please stop, I am not interested in a friendship with you", then sure, go ahead. But you shouldn't have to do that because this older, married, experienced, professional man should already KNOW that this behaviour is not okay, and other people in the office with more seniority should also already KNOW that this behaviour is not okay and be stepping in. You are, if I'm reading this correctly, the most junior person in this team? It should not therefore be on YOU to have to assert boundaries that should be obvious to everyone else.

I would put money on him having done this before.

Speak to HR, voice your concerns and they may have advice on how to handle. TBH it sounds like this may not an unknown issue and he may have had past form. I also suspect the sales rep could be old school and believes he will get away with this.

Just keep all communication to a minimum & 100% work related & professional, establish very clear boundaries and hopefully he will get the hint.

I'm pleased you have a plan of action.

I don't think your manager mishandled the situation in the bar - he spotted you were uncomfortable and suggested you leave. In waiting for the sales rep to go to the loo, he handled it gently and without embarrassing anyone. I would have preferred if he had then said to the sales rep - 'Hey Fred back off she's half your age and you're married'. Maybe he did and by continuing to make you feel uncomfortable the situation neds to be escalated.

I agree with your friends - you need to be more assertive when experiencing unwelcome attention. Men like this see women who are polite as being interested in them.

Thanks, everyone, Yes I plan to speak to my HR on Monday first thing. I feel very nervous about it, I don't know why as women we are conditioned to feel ashamed about these things?

To confirm, I am the youngest on my team. I am often referred to as the "baby" of the group. I am 25. Outside of work, I would say I'm rather feisty so if this was anyone else I would have handled it by now I don't know why I feel so subdued because it is a work environment.

I will start being more assertive, I do feel like I've made myself very clear but if I have to spell it out for him I will. It's our Christmas celebration next week and as it looms closer it's causing me a lot of anxiety because he will be there. He made a joke a couple of weeks back along the lines of "you'll be sitting next to me" and since then it's played on my mind.

Thanks again everyone

Op do not be afraid to stand up to this man, he has no problem trampling over your boundaries when you try to assert them

It's our Christmas celebration next week and as it looms closer it's causing me a lot of anxiety because he will be there. He made a joke a couple of weeks back along the lines of "you'll be sitting next to me" and since then it's played on my mind.

OP, how does he know this? Is it a sit-down meal with a seating plan? If so, can you have a word with whoever has drawn it up and ask to be moved to a different seat? You shouldn't have to deal with this on your own.

Oh gosh this has made me so sad. You should not be feeling anything but excited about your Christmas do. His behaviour is awful.

It’s easy to say call him out on his behaviour but it’s easier said than done, especially as he’s been there for so long. However, you need to flag this with HR and let them deal with it. It needs to stop.

With regards to the Christmas party, can you make sure you make arrangements to sit with others, away from this slim bag.

When speaking to HR, flag your concerns about work travel with him.

Flag that clearly.

Your employer has a real duty of care towards you.

He is harassing you.

Creep.

Would he say all this to a junior male colleague? I’ll bet he wouldn’t. Creep.

You need to speak to your manager and/or HR about this. IMMEDIATELY. Awful behaviour.

If you're uncomfortable (and I would be too!) it isn't appropriate. You're 25... when I was that age I was always nice and friendly with everyone (including creeps like this guy) because I thought I had to be. But I now know you do not have to be nice!! Especially not to people making you uncomfortable. He is taking advantage of you for his own pleasure and it's not ok. Stop being friendly, just do the "grey rock" thing where you're super boring, don't ask questions or give detail in your answers. Just make it really uninteresting to talk to you. Be brisk and busy when he's around.

He made a joke a couple of weeks back along the lines of "you'll be sitting next to me" and since then it's played on my mind.

Time to find a couple of colleagues who'll have your back and block him from sitting next to you / chatting to you solo. It's certainly something I would do for another colleague (male or female, young or old). Explain you're finding him a bit creepy and need some 'wingmen' to help out. If he mentions again about sitting next to you - have a response prepared "Oh no, sorry I'm sitting with Gloria and Gladys" and repeat as required.

Totally agree with @MizzFizz - you don’t have to be nice to creeps.

He’s probably tried these tactics with every young woman he’s ever encountered at work, and he’s taking the fact that you haven’t yet explicitly told him to fuck off as permission to continue. He’s a turd, so it would be entirely fair to treat him like one.

Definitely talk to hr. I’d probably reply to any more inappropriate emails too, to tell him his behaviour is inappropriate and he needs to stop. You have to let go of nice and start sticking up for yourself or you’ll keep being targeting by delusional shits like this.

You are right to approach HR. I am glad you have the owner's daughter's ear. It is HR's job to prevent things from escalating and they can tell him to respect your boundaries and keep your relationship strictly professional (like that even needs to be said).

Please continue to log and document every incident, including the patronising 'little friend' email. Print hard copies of evidence. Speak to HR and document your conversations with HR but always be a little careful with HR, because they represent the company, not you.

Hi Op. your plan to speak to HR is perfect. But I think you also need a paper trail. It will also (IME) make your company take it more seriously. So go in with your notes and give HR a copy. Take notes in the meeting. Then once the meeting is over, send HR an email confirming the meeting,what was discussed,what the plan is moving forward - basically like a summary. Do this any time the matter is raised by way of a chat. If she stops by your desk to ask how things are going, send an email confirming that she asked you about it and you said xx.
I would not be at all surprised if he tries something on at the xmas party if he sees an opportunity. In your shoes I would not drink alcohol at it and I would make it clear to HR that they need to make sure he is not sitting next to you for the meal. Stick with your actual friends. He is a predator looking to take advantage as soon as he can see any vulnerability. It really sucks that you have to modify your behaviour because if his behaviour but in a situation where drink is involved, he has made his intentions clear and everyone else will be drinking you need to protect yourself.

Good luck I hope the meeting goes well.

Gosh I hate guys like this. Sleazebag.
I had this a few times in my 20s. I was basically stalked by one and another tried to kiss me. I let it all go , worrying about not being believed or that I would lose my job.
I regret that so much!!! If it was now, wow, they wouldn’t know what hit them. Of course, these type of guys don’t try it with older more assertive women, just those trying to climb the ladder and trying to fit in and not rock the boat.
Op very proud of you for going to HR. It’s the right thing to do. Let us know how you get on