Narcissistic EXH and dividing DCs Xmas day

[FutureHope]

Not sure this is the right place but people on here seems to get narcissism/coercive control very well.

Have a covert narcissist EXH. Coercive control was awful and I am still supported by Women’s Aid. Separated for 2 years and now divorced.

DD is 15. She is really lovely and EXH’s golden girl, can do no wrong. DS is 14. I have never said anything to either of them about EXH’s behaviour but DS is currently refusing to see his dad, as he’s noticed the control for himself, plus other things.

It’s now come to a head over Xmas. DD wants to spend Xmas eve and morning with her dad, which it’s ‘their turn’ to do. DS refuses to go at all. DD says she will go without DS , who she’s currently angry with because he’s ‘upsetting dad’ by refusing to visit. We would all then have lunch together with my family, which we have done every year.

I don’t know what to do. Something in me tells me it’s so wrong to divide the kids, but if I prevent DD from going to EXH, she will resent me. EXH loves being the victim and is manipulating DD so badly - she just can’t see it.

What do I do? Any thoughts?

I think at their age, it's probably best not to get tangled up in the middle of their wants. Let DD go, and let DS stay.

There is nothing you can do to reason with a narc, and nothing you can do about their twisted behaviour. You cannot save her from the manipulation while he is still seeing her. You can only hope that she will eventually discover it herself and see it for what it is. She will probably need counselling to help unravel her feelings at some point.

You're not "dividing the kids", they're teenagers who are making their own decisions about what they want to do at Christmas. Presumably your daughter often sees her father on her own, as in, without her brother?

I appreciate your experiences with your ex must make you second guess yourself a lot but in this case I think you're over thinking it

At 14 I would let her choose, especially since it's EH turn. In time she will learn what her DF is like. In the meantime you have to be seen as being reasonable no how much it hurts.

Last year was the first year with out my EX. We had decided to split Xmas day but DD didn't really enjoy it. I asked if she wanted to split this Xmas again or have Xmas Eve to Boxing Day morning with her DF. She chose the latter- she supper chuffed (I'm not) and that is what matters.

If your DS dosent want to go then you can do something special with him.

I can understand why you would like your dcs to be together Christmas morning, but you can't ban DD from sticking to the arrangement, any more than you can force DS to go.

I'm sure DD will come to realise the true nature of tings in time.

I'd focus on looking forward to later on Christmas Day when all together with your family

They are old enough to decide themselves i wouldn't try and stop them op

Let them each make their own decisions. Make it clear to them both that at their respective ages, their wishes count, and they have a choice.

I agree with everyone saying to let them make their own decisions here. But I also wanted to stress, please do NOT make your DS spend time with a narcissist parent if he's already clocked it. Be his safe harbour.

I think as it is exH turn only option is make ds go if you want the kids together and I would absolutely not suggest doing that.

Ds stays, dd goes and lunch together seems like sensible option. At that age I think you have to let them decide.

I appreciate you are trying to care for both your kids - but Surely it would be unfair to 'stop' a teenager from seeing her dad on xmas morning? Christmas is such an emotive time - I think the best way to resolve all tension in xmas discussions is to massively downplay everything and be prepared to comprimise. It's just one day, it's just one morning, they will have lunch together - they aren't toddlers waking up to look out of the window for santa.

It will be a gift to your daughter if you just say off you go and enjoy yourself, its not big deal and we will all enjoy our time together later.

Dont add unnecessary emotion to it (and Im sorry you have to deal with this man - its obviously important to support your son)

just have a cosy morning with your son and relax about it

Ok I hear you all. Thankyou so much.

Very helpful that it’s unanimous.

DS has flat refused and I can’t force him. I just hate seeing them so divided. It’s what ex mil did to EXh and his siblings - she issultimate covert narc - and now they barely speak. I had always hoped DS and DD would be close. Hate seeing DD being so badly manipulated by EXH twisted behaviour.

But I hear you. Will step bank. Thankyou. Just feel sad and once again, pretty powerless against him.

Imve of dealing with such a man a divide is inevitable.. 2 of my dc have been nc with their df for 5 years. 1 lives with ex and is nc with me after years of brainwashing.. There is nc between the siblings either. Support your ds in his choices. As you do dd in seeing her df..

As it's supposed to be his turn, and one child is (understandably) refusing, the child that wants to go shouldn't be forced not to

Santa is that is my great fear. I am so afraid of losing her, and of thr dcs having no contact. I have seen it happen in EXH family.

Your DCs can and will still be close.

It's important to emphasise the similarities, each of them is entitled to their own view, those views are equally valid, each must respect the other's choice. Each can have a happy Xmas day by not judging the other.

Right. Got it.

Thankyou all so much.

So long as your DD is not coming from a position of rescuing her father , feeling it's her role to make sure he is happy. A quiet word about her feelings and motives might be in order.

One of my dc stayed away from me for a year when df allowed him such freedom. As in drink and drugs. And no schooling.
Then he had a brainstorm and realised who was the actual parent and who didn't care...
He went nc with his df and lived ft with me before joining the army 2 years ago.
Ds needed to figure df our for himself. As tough as it was for me. And for him tbh.