Support services for men in this situation?

[Elderflowerie]

My brother is going through a very difficult time with his wife who clearly has post natal anxiety/ depression but refuses to acknowledge that there is a problem. This is worsened ny the fact that she is backed up by her own mother who is in fear of my SIL initiating NC if she doesn't agree with her and go along with what she says.

My niece is now 9 months old and my brother has never bathed her, only fed her a bottle twice, he is not allowed to change her nappy or even push her in the pushchair. He plays with her wrong, he is not allowed to look at her when she's feeding because he "distracts" her and has been told that he no longer matters because it is all about their much wanted, long awaited baby.

My SIL now talks to the baby about my brother when he's there "Daddy can't change your nappy right can he?"
"let's hope you grow up like mummy and not daddy."
I would say that she hates my brother.
Every argument about this, my SIL calls her mum infront of my brother and tells her what my brother has done wrong, infront of him and makes verbal acknowledgements of her mum's agreements "yes I know I'm right mum, yes I know, he can't do X"

My brother is an idiot because the last time she did this, he grabbed the phone from her and threw it at the wall in temper, smashing it to pieces. She called the police and he had to stay with my parents for the night.

She is antagonising him by slagging him off to my niece and to her mum on the phone infront of him on a daily basis and he has begun losing his temper by shouting at her- he has also called her names recently. Which I know is ridiculous. But she now has some recordings of his shouting after antagonising him and is threatening to use them in court to fight for full custody of their daughter.

My brother has always wanted to be a Dad and tries extremely hard but he has been cut out entirely since she was born. He has given up his hobby, friends, but told that his role basically has no importance because he does "everything wrong." There were problems like this pre-baby which was joked about- he wasn't allowed to use a specific shower in the house, had to put things in certain places in a certain way. It has worsened considerably since the baby. She now throws his shoes outside if he puts them where she says her handbag should go.

He attended counselling but was told he wasn't depressed but that his wife needed help. So he called the HV who told him there is nothing they can do without her say so.

I don't condone throwing things and shouting, but he's clearly at the end of his tether. He probably needs some anger management too. But he feels like there is no support for him to deal with his wife. He feels like he's lost his daughter to her possessiveness and is evidently distraught. He has spoken to his wife's mum who is saying that her daughter is not depressed or anxious. I have seen for myself that she is and I flagged it up early on before things spiralled. Infact, I was the one who highlighted it. My SIL however is extremely head strong (to the point I've suspected ASD and PDA) and was offended by my suggestion. I had PND myself with DC1 so know the signs.

My SIL is an only child of a single mother herself and never knew her father so I believe that she just doesn't see my brother as having a role in his daughter's life and that his role is done. SIL has no friends and spends all her time with her new baby and her mother who seems to play the role of second mother to my niece. It's quite a toxic set up, although so is their marriage now. I think there is now a bit of tact going on through the recordings etc to get my brother out of their lives and the way things are going, I can see that it will work.

My brother is an idiot for reacting to this as he is doing now, but clearly needs some support. He has a history of depression and self harm from when he was younger and I'm concerned about what might happen to him should he be cut out of his daughter's life. Can anyone advise?

It sounds like an awful situation, and they both need help, for their own sakes, their marriage and especially their daughter.

The first thing your DB has to do is to stop responding aggressively. It's never the right thing to do, and it will give his wife ammunition to (at best) prove her point that he isn't up to the job, or (at worst) use against him legally when it comes to the care of their child.

And, much worse, what if his aggression ended up with someone being hurt.

I think it would help to remove himself from the situation altogether, and get some counselling. He can explain / put in writing to his wife (and let her mum know) that he is doing this for the sake of their family, and that he wants to work towards rebuilding their relationship and this is the first step.

I think he should share his concerns with their GP / HV. Even if they are limited in what they can do, he can ask them to make a note for the record of his concerns.

He could ask his wife to go for counselling, but it sounds unlikely.

Ultimately, if their relationshop has become unworkable, then he may have to accept them splitting up. In which case he can seek advice on how to go about getting the right contact with his daughter - based on what is best for his daughter.

In all things I'd suggest keeping a record of actions taken and conversations had, in case it ever gets to the point where he is accused of leaving the family / desserting them / not caring.

At the bottom of all of this is the fact that your SIL appears to have ramped up her controlling tendancies now she is a mum. That won't be at all healthy for your niece, and it can't be a happy state of affairs for your SIL.

For all their sakes, I really hope that she is able to accept some help, with her MH and also allowing your DB to get close to his daughter. He is her parent just as much as her mother is.

Thanks for posting. I think there's a pattern of him going along with everything she says to keep the peace and underreacting. Undermining his own role as the parent. Then things become even harder when he does everything her way but she still criticises and complains, the he completely over-reacts.

I think acknowledging himself as the other parent with an equal say is a problem- he's lost his self confidence. But definitely needs help for his temper. The problem is that SIL isn't acknowledging that any of it is her fault or that she has a problem. She condones her controlling behaviour and so does her mum

Well, if the relationship is not working he needs to get out, not least because even if she's in the wrong, his behaviour is clearly unacceptable. throwing a phone? Screaming at her? I mean, I sympathise if he's incredibly frustrated but it immediately rings alarm bells for me that this is just the tip of the iceberg and I find myself questioning if her side might look quite different.

Let's assume his story is 100% accurate. In which case, he should leave his wife and go through the courts for contact. It will, of course, be less than he would like but, if he is getting zero contact currently because of his wife's behaviour, it will probably be more.

It's interesting to read you providing a lot of context for your DB's behaviour and very limited context for your SIL's (beyond there being something wrong with her - PND, ASD...).

If we take the information at face value, then they both clearly have work to do on communication and healthy relationship dynamics. Regardless of provocation, it is never ok to throw things in anger to the point of breaking them. If he can't control his rage, he is not safe to be around.

Let's assume his story is 100% accurate. In which case, he should leave his wife and go through the courts for contact. It will, of course, be less than he would like but, if he is getting zero contact currently because of his wife's behaviour, it will probably be more.

To add - if he does this he needs to make sure he talks to someone reasonable e.g. you before he contacts his wife every single time. That way he won't do stupid things that she can use against him to make him having contact with their daughter difficult.

I can only provide context for the information that I have @Griefmonster. I know more about ny brother than my SIL, obviously.

So she was already a bit unhinged before they had a child? It sounds like he needs to just leave this woman and concentrate his efforts on co parenting. At this stage I very much doubt a recording of him shouting that has no context will be evidence of anything in court.