This is a dealbreaker really isn't it - attitude about violence toward women

[pastypirate]

I'm currently not speaking to my dp. Ive had some realisations recently that came to a head this weekend. At the weekend I was asked to support with a death in my community (details are private to the family and not that pertinent to the post) dp doesn't know them and hasn't met them. Anyway it was all v upsetting and I was needed so I went and this resulted in me not seeing dp as planned.

I realised when something upsets me dp is really funny about it and for want of a better expression I feel like he polices my emotions. Ive refused to tell him about above because I don't want him deciding if I can be upset about it.

In the summer something really awful happened in my town. Not to me personally but I was v upset. Dp behaviour was awful and he made a big atmosphere and spoiled something we had planned with the dc (mine not his). I hadn't really processed this until now. I should have ended the relationship over it.

Earlier in the year I found out about Jess Phillips reading out the names each year - I genuinely didn't know about it and mentioned it to dp. He was quite arsy and did the what about male suicide blah blah. I've realised he doesn't like discussion about violence against women and always does the what about the men and saying he feels unsafe sometimes etc etc (yes I know men are able to feel unsafe and this is also and issue)

In my area another woman has been murdered in the last few days. I don't claim to know her but it's very shocking and sad. How I think he will behave if I resume contact is what's stopping me. Even now I've typed this out I know I need to end this relationship fully. I think I just need to talk about it.

The trouble with turning the conversation around from violence against women to "what about the men" is twofold, in mind. Firstly, we are allowed to worry about or be sad about a single issue and that doesn't detract from our feelings about a different issue. So the discussion of violence against women doesn't take anything away from a discussion about violence against men. Anyone arguing otherwise is only doing so because they don't want the attention to be on violence against women. One would then have to wonder why that is, really.

The second issue is that the statistics show that violence perpetrated against women, and violence perpetrated against men, are both by and large, committed by men themselves. Male violence is a huge, huge problem, end of story. So again, if someone is trying to obfuscate, talk down, ignore, or deny the problem of violence against women by changing focus to violence against men, I would have to wonder why that is.

And my wondering of why that is would probably not lead me to a high opinion of that person.

Op, I think you're right to be concerned about these attitudes and I also think that you have the right to end a relationship with anyone, at any time, for any reason. Follow your feelings here.

@TellMeItsPossible

The trouble with turning the conversation around from violence against women to "what about the men" is twofold, in mind. Firstly, we are allowed to worry about or be sad about a single issue and that doesn't detract from our feelings about a different issue. So the discussion of violence against women doesn't take anything away from a discussion about violence against men. Anyone arguing otherwise is only doing so because they don't want the attention to be on violence against women. One would then have to wonder why that is, really.

The second issue is that the statistics show that violence perpetrated against women, and violence perpetrated against men, are both by and large, committed by men themselves. Male violence is a huge, huge problem, end of story. So again, if someone is trying to obfuscate, talk down, ignore, or deny the problem of violence against women by changing focus to violence against men, I would have to wonder why that is.

And my wondering of why that is would probably not lead me to a high opinion of that person.

Op, I think you're right to be concerned about these attitudes and I also think that you have the right to end a relationship with anyone, at any time, for any reason. Follow your feelings here.

Thank you for the reply - made a lot of sense and yes I agree

Happy to help. It's sometimes difficult to parse our feelings about this because it's so emotive.

Are there any other areas of your relationship that make you unhappy? I'm just wondering if couples counselling might help him see what he's doing? Or don't you love him now?

"The trouble with turning the conversation around from violence against women to "what about the men" is twofold, in mind. Firstly, we are allowed to worry about or be sad about a single issue and that doesn't detract from our feelings about a different issue. So the discussion of violence against women doesn't take anything away from a discussion about violence against men. Anyone arguing otherwise is only doing so because they don't want the attention to be on violence against women. One would then have to wonder why that is, really.

The second issue is that the statistics show that violence perpetrated against women, and violence perpetrated against men, are both by and large, committed by men themselves. Male violence is a huge, huge problem, end of story. So again, if someone is trying to obfuscate, talk down, ignore, or deny the problem of violence against women by changing focus to violence against men, I would have to wonder why that is."

This with bells on. Sounds like he's probably an "all lives matter" person also. What's worse is that he's clearly comfortable with his ignorant approach and has no interest in being educated into a better understanding about these issues - indeed, he sulks and makes things unpleasant for everyone else. Your children really don't need to be around someone modelling these types of behaviours and neither do you. So yes, all in all, it sounds like a dealbreaker.

His attitudes and behaviours are very wrong but also very common.

I think a lot of it is fear. Fear of the loss of a comfortable lifestyle and of a life they understand. Fear that once they open their eyes to other experiences and perspectives they won't be able to close them again and their comfortable world and all the assumptions they've based their life upon to date, will be turned upside down. They're defending their castle.

My experience is that a lot of people who think like this have been brought up to see themselves as the centre of the world. As special, wonderful and able to do anything.

They haven't been taught thoughtfulness, consideration and generosity. As a consequence, they naturally think in terms of their own wants and their 'rights'. They see other people's wants and needs as competing with their own, taking away from their slice of the pie. They haven't learnt that thoughtfulness, generosity and community spirit make the pie bigger.

Men and women can be like this, self-centred, insular, cautious and fearful. But I think there is still a big difference, on average, in the way boys and girls are brought up and that far more boys are raised as little princes, girls as little helpmeets.

In a way you have to feel sorry for his type because he's socially and emotionally stunted. That doesn't stop him from being powerful and harmful though and you should never allow someone power over you who does not have your best interests at heart.

Sounds like he doesn't in any way shape or form deserve a thoughtful kind woman, which you sound like.

Find a thoughtful kind man to share your life with.

Yes throw him back in his swamp.

Just placemaking because this is of interest.

@lottiegarbanzo post is so thought-provoking, and I think true.

When you feel upset your partner should offer comfort and support, not a lecture about how bad other people have it!

I'm a man (in case that's relevant at all) and I'm really disappointed that a lot of men seem to be dismissive of this issue. It's clearly a massive problem in society and I find it hard to see how some men can deny that. Even if they don't think much about general people out there, wouldn't they at least be motivated by the effect that it has on women that they care about?

I think it would be great to have something like #MeToo with men committing to solidarity with women on this issue and stating that they will try to be allies in this struggle as well. I don't know if "normal" people could start something like that (I think
MeToo was started by celebrities, and I can't even think of a catchy name for what I'm trying to suggest!)

OP, it sounds as though you are already leaning towards ending the relationship and I think that is a good idea.

FWIW, I think your uneasiness is entirely justified and the feeling of him trying to "police" your emotions and using what-about tactics to invalidate what you are saying gave me the creeps.

As one PP said, pointing out another injustice does not invalidate your feelings about a situation. Saying "what about women in the Saudi Arabia, they can't even go out alone" does not invalidate or change the fact that women feel unsafe in [name any other country] or that women are paid less than men across the board. Bringing up a worse example does not change the fact that what you said/feel is valid.

Also, you are already choosing not to discuss things with him because you know what reaction you can expect. It's not a great sign, and your partner is supposed ot be someone who you can communicate with openly and honestly, without fear of judgement or of being dismissed.

Finally, many women suffer and/or fear male violence (despite growing research into the experience of male victims, violence remains skewed towards women and girls) and any person who does not take that entirely rational fear seriously does not respect you or deserve your time. I am rooting for you. xx

@Dery

"The trouble with turning the conversation around from violence against women to "what about the men" is twofold, in mind. Firstly, we are allowed to worry about or be sad about a single issue and that doesn't detract from our feelings about a different issue. So the discussion of violence against women doesn't take anything away from a discussion about violence against men. Anyone arguing otherwise is only doing so because they don't want the attention to be on violence against women. One would then have to wonder why that is, really.

The second issue is that the statistics show that violence perpetrated against women, and violence perpetrated against men, are both by and large, committed by men themselves. Male violence is a huge, huge problem, end of story. So again, if someone is trying to obfuscate, talk down, ignore, or deny the problem of violence against women by changing focus to violence against men, I would have to wonder why that is."

This with bells on. Sounds like he's probably an "all lives matter" person also. What's worse is that he's clearly comfortable with his ignorant approach and has no interest in being educated into a better understanding about these issues - indeed, he sulks and makes things unpleasant for everyone else. Your children really don't need to be around someone modelling these types of behaviours and neither do you. So yes, all in all, it sounds like a dealbreaker.

Yes to all lives matter. It's like sad bingo isn't it.

@MoonbeamsGlittering

I'm a man (in case that's relevant at all) and I'm really disappointed that a lot of men seem to be dismissive of this issue. It's clearly a massive problem in society and I find it hard to see how some men can deny that. Even if they don't think much about general people out there, wouldn't they at least be motivated by the effect that it has on women that they care about?

I think it would be great to have something like #MeToo with men committing to solidarity with women on this issue and stating that they will try to be allies in this struggle as well. I don't know if "normal" people could start something like that (I think
MeToo was started by celebrities, and I can't even think of a catchy name for what I'm trying to suggest!)

Thank you for a male perspective. He doesn't deny it's an issue I've realised it's more of a subtle technique of discouraging discussion. He does it with politics too. He is fairly apolitical and I'm not. I don't appreciate him shutting down discussion when my dc are involved. I don't mind he's not that invested. It's not about that.

What's kind of sad is that he's not a voile t man I doubt he will ever be and I belong him when he says he's felt frightened alone at night. He should understand since the threat to him is similar but he doesn't.

@pastypirate

What's kind of sad is that he's not a voile t man I doubt he will ever be and I belong him when he says he's felt frightened alone at night. He should understand since the threat to him is similar but he doesn't.

It's not really a similar threat though OP. So maybe he feels afraid when alone at night because what if someone breaks in etc. Or the same walking around alone at night. Both valid , especially the latter (I think it's the case that males are more likely to experience random violence from strangers?)

But the DV threat to women is different. Large numbers of women (and children) are afraid in their own homes when they're NOT alone... they're afraid of the man who's supposed to love them and care for them.
It doesn't seem as if he understands that AT ALL.

You say you’re not talking to him. Carry that on indefinitely if you don’t live together? He’s emotionally stunted and selfish. All lives matter is a deal breaker for me. It’s a kind of racism really as it deliberately chooses to minimise the focus on what’s happening unless it involves white people. It’s woven within the core of his personality to minimise your emotions and turn it back to him. He’s not self aware. It’s not worth anymore of your precious time

YANBU
I've distanced myself from a couple I was really good friends for the exact same reason. Both v intelligent, kind people on a personal level but I was getting so hacked off with comments/responses/attitude like you're describing. It's just such a fundamental difference in our world views. I couldn't put up with it any more and thought I'd best back away before there was a row.
But they were friends, not my partner. That would have upset me 100x more so I do feel for you with the choice you now have to make.
I'm not on my soapbox about vital issues every 5 minutes but if I talk about something important like this I don't accept being shut down because I give a crap.

Post by @lottiegarbanzo is excellent!