DD growing up and I feel am losing ability to connect - will it wear off?

[SarrotCoup]

She’s 15. Have just discovered she’s gay and dating one of her friends. Other friends know she’s a lesbian but don’t know they are dating because friend’s previous relationship didn’t got down well with parents so she doesn’t want them to know. DD seems completely relaxed in herself but says she wasn’t going to tell me or DH, not because she thought we’d have an issue with it but because she finds talking about it “awkward” (I have a problem with the friend’s parents not knowing but it’s not my place to interfere there).

I think the situation around her current relationship sounds quite stressful and messy but I can hear DD on group chats with all her friends as if she hasn’t got a care in the world. I was such a ball of worry at her age and until recently she’s seemed so like me. I feel like I am suddenly realising she’s quite different in terms of who she is and how she handles life and I don’t know what’s to do, how to relate to her. There are times when she seems to find things that seem quite trivial “awkward” and hides behind DC2 to get them to deal with it. She used to tell me to tell DH that she wasn’t going to one of her activities because her period had started, now she just tells him directly when she’s not going as she knows he knows not to ask any questions. Stupid as it might sound, I was quite touched she’d approach me about a small personal thing but now she’s comfortable she won’t be questioned by DH she’s stopped which has made me realise it was purely a logistical issue.

I feel like I don’t know how to pull together the different pieces of her together in my head. I’m not very comfortable socially and my house is my haven and feeling like my DD grew up while I didn’t notice and now I don’t quite know who all of the people in my house are is an odd feeling. I’m also sad because I feel like I missed the last stages of her child-self while I was messing about with other things (sitting on the internet reading rubbish mainly).

Obviously at her age she spends much of her time in her room chatting with friends when she is not physically with them and I’ve had the feeling for while when I did see her that I couldn’t find the kid I knew which I’ve struggled with. In the past few months I’ve taken her and DC2 out to try to bond as we used to and but I felt it didn’t really hit the mark. I feel a bit silly now and am not sure what else to do. We’ve always gone out together as a family but more in terms of trips to the beach and walks than activities where the focus is the activity itself so to start trying to do something like that feels fake and forced.

Will this feeling wear off? Will I start feeling comfortable again? Will I reconnect with my DD? I’m menopausal and I think some if my feelings are bound up in losing my parents (my DF not long after DD was born) and my own relationship with my late mother which was strained. I just feel so very sad right now.

Try to think of yourself as an umbrella op.

On warm and sunny days you are not really needed. You will be hung up on the shelf and temporarily forgotten about. It wouldn't be right for your dd to be walking about in good weather with an umbrella up - she would miss out on the sun.

But when it rains your dd will come looking for you on the shelf and be grateful for your presence.

There will also be some storms she has to weather alone. You can't take an umbrella out in gale force winds because it gets all broken and mangled and then there is no umbrella anymore. There are some difficult times when we just have to walk in the rain, too.

Maybe a cheesy analogy but it's important to remember it's not about accompanying your dd on every step of her journey to adulthood. Be grateful for the good weather, she seems to be doing great. Just be there when she needs you. And don't damage your relationship by accidentally interfering during the times she needs to figure it out alone.

There are some things that I don’t really know the correct answer to. She asked if her friend could come for a sleepover a few weeks ago. Clearly it was more than that (and how she got rumbled as DC2 noticed something and made an observation to me). DD doesn’t want any “just to let you know DD is gay” type broadcast and that’s fair enough, why would I do that if I wouldn’t do that if she was straight. However, in a routine conversation I would probably mention she was in her first relationship and I can’t do that in the specific circumstances of this one (the other parents) which does make it all a bit weird and means it can’t even be mentioned to her sibling. I have told her I am annoyed that I was led into agreeing to a scenario which was in fact different that it was presented. I know there is no pregnancy issue but this is still her first relationship (she tells me), it’s the two of them in a little bubble and if it gets emotionally fraught and goes belly-up there’s the impact on her friend to consider. They have 2+ years left of school to consider. To be honest, I hope for that reason that this specific relationship is just a bit of preliminary experimentation where they both feel safe and it fades back into a friendship. I do feel the need to set boundaries and don’t think giving carte blanche for sleepovers is the right thing to do at their age. I would let a boyfriend stay over aged 15 even if they weren’t yet having a sexual relationship and it doesn’t feel right to apply a different rule here simply because there’s no risk of a baby appearing.

I also wonder if there is going to be some fall out from the other parents which we may have to deal with. DD isn’t the most adept at dealing with “awkward” situations and yet the potential for this to get messy doesn’t seem to be causing her any stress. I was so worried about everything when I was her age and would have been majorly stressed about this so I have no idea in what way she is processing this.

DD has told me frequently she doesn’t want children. Previously I’d said (truthfully) I was horrified by the idea until about 6 months before she was born. I’ve never had any thoughts about attending my kids weddings, grandchildren etc but I know my awful relationship with my mum was bridged by the existence of the DCs and have observed friends connecting to their parents via their children so her saying that is resonating a little more deeply at the moment while I am feeling this sense of loss.

That should have read I WOULDN’T let a boyfriend stay over

And impact on her friendship - which is obviously a source of support - not just her friend

@Tobchette

Try to think of yourself as an umbrella op.

On warm and sunny days you are not really needed. You will be hung up on the shelf and temporarily forgotten about. It wouldn't be right for your dd to be walking about in good weather with an umbrella up - she would miss out on the sun.

But when it rains your dd will come looking for you on the shelf and be grateful for your presence.

There will also be some storms she has to weather alone. You can't take an umbrella out in gale force winds because it gets all broken and mangled and then there is no umbrella anymore. There are some difficult times when we just have to walk in the rain, too.

Maybe a cheesy analogy but it's important to remember it's not about accompanying your dd on every step of her journey to adulthood. Be grateful for the good weather, she seems to be doing great. Just be there when she needs you. And don't damage your relationship by accidentally interfering during the times she needs to figure it out alone.

Love this ❤️

@SarrotCoup It is good you are considering counseling op

You remind me a bit of my own dm. She had a lot of expectations tied up in our relationship, which were embedded in a similar traumatic situation with her own parents. She never got counseling though, so I found I was always having to draw boundaries with her, rather than the other way around.

Your dd may still get married and have children yet. So many things could change. It seems like you are mourning a future that hasn't happened yet.

As for worrying about her reaction to her girlfriends parents, isn't it nice that she isn't the kind of person to feel burdened by the behavior of others. She must feel a certain level of security in her life to be so care free. It's likely the security she feels from you and your dh.

If her gfs parents find out and react badly, that's their problem. There's nothing wrong with a same sex relationship between two fifteen year olds. At 16 they will be of legal age to have sex if they want to. So if the parents react badly, it's on them. Your dd isn't doing anything wrong and shouldn't feel worry or guilt about her actions. And she doesn't - so it sounds like you are doing so many things right! You're having open conversations about what is and isn't acceptable under your roof and she has confided in you this much already.

And the fact that she speaks differently to her friends than she does with you (which you know from listening in on her conversations - stop doing that) is another sign of healthy transition into adulthood. She's behaving tactfully and respectfully because her gf isn't fully out yet, and she's adapting her behavior to situations. We all do that as adults in real life. It's a necessary skill. As long as she isn't speaking badly of others, saying hurtful things to others, or telling lies for the sake of telling lies, you have to let her decide for herself which parts of herself she shows to the outside world. It's all part of managing her own relationships and figuring out how she wants to do that.

Thanks for this. I feel I have got to go through a process now of seeing who she truly is and that has hit me so suddenly I know I need to work to adjust.

When I hear her taking to her friends, it’s because I’m WFH in my room and she is in hers with her door open - what I am talking about is the general tone of chatter. She can shut her door if she wants to and maybe she does sometimes, I haven’t noticed. She knows I am upstairs and the door has always been open to my room for no other reason than it always is (I spend 8 hours a day in front of my PC in here at the moment). DC2 is in the next room with an open door which DD is fully aware of. My DM used to read my DB’s diary and listen at the door when we were on the phone, she had little respect for boundaries so I’ve always tried to be very mindful of the DCs in this way.

Yes, they start “leaving” about that age, they need their space, their privacy and start enjoying spending more time with their friends than with us.

Mine is very independent, I am not sure if he will come back, we bonded a bit about laundry in his first weeks at uni but he is out there living his life and making plans to move abroad as soon as he can. I know he loves me, but gone are the days we spent together as a family, he is like a visit these days

You have had lots of amazing advice already. One thing I would do is to spend time with your dd on her own. You say you invited her out with DD2, but that's family time and often kids start pulling away from family outings (not always) and that wouldn't be the right time to chat about more personal things anyway. So, times to chat/hang out would be giving lifts, going for a coffee and cake together, doing something together when other child is out/at a friends for the day, shopping together, online or sitting on the bed and so on. It might feel a bit forced at times, just keep making opportunities for connecting.

It seems to me she is chatting to you already, it's more your feelings of loss and upset which this is all about, as she's not actually doing anything very weird for a teen, and she isn't shouting at you or being horrid, so perhaps you are pre-menopausal or menopausal and you are just feeling a bit fragile yourself. I have a therapist to moan to once a week online and that really helps, many of my friends swear by HRT.

I don't mean announce 'let's spend time together' as most teens will run away from that! Just 'accidentally' spend time together, going places she already needs to go, or buying stuff she needs or giving her lifts and suss out if she'd like an outing just the two of you as well.

Yes agree with spending time with just one of your kids. I just spent 7 hours furniture shopping with my 7 year old and had a lovely time. This is the most I've spent with her all year.

Am really struggling I today. Because DD is in this relationship where the other parents don’t know and her friends don’t know (she said) and she’s made clear how uncomfortable she feels talking about it (made clear by the fact she didn’t and wouldn’t have said anything), I don’t know how to talk to her about expectations and any ground rules. These are things I would if the situation was open and I would have a word and agree these with the other parents in any other case where I knew them, particularly when the kids were friends first. I don’t know what to do. Neither DH and I were dating anyone in our school years, not until away from our parents houses and as adults which means we’re not drawing on direct experience anyway but this is another dimension.

DD is quite mature in some ways but not steetwise in others - or I don’t think so anyway, I feel so wide of the mark with all this to date that I could be completely wrong there as well.

Tried to talk to DH about how I felt at a loss and under pressure, almost intimidated by the situation and that I couldn’t say anything as I don’t want DD to feel she’s going to be ambushed by the subject every time I’m around - or that there is the potential that she will be so she always has to be on edge, driving a wedge. Meanwhile she knows that DH will talk to her about her favourite sports etc. He suggested he talks to her directly but I think that’s terrible idea, ultimately it’s better for her to have one parent where she knows she’ll be able to stay entirely within her comfort zone. We’ve just had a huge row which I can’t bothered even trying to resolve. I just want some sort of plan to have suitable boundaries and open communication but I don’t know how to establish that when the starting point is secrecy and dishonesty.

All that I know of in terms of her communication with her friends is just the same banter (from distant observation). I think me only having relationship as an adult makes it hard for me to compute the “kiddy” type behaviour with fact there are other types of relationships developing. I feel like I’m in a position where I can only ignore it and work under the assumption that DD will tell us nothing and lie sometimes if it makes things less “awkward”. But I feel I can only do that if I work under the assumption that her relationship is not a serious one and that feels like it is belittling what must be a significant experience for her.

I also feel very limited in who I can talk to IRL about this because of the secrecy. DD doesn’t want me to make any “DD is gay” type comments because 1) awkward 2) if I wouldn’t be observing “DD is straight” then why do the equivalent because she’s not. My friend’s son is dating but I’m not allowed to say DD is too.

OP (and I am saying this kindly) I think you are making the a lot harder than it should be. You should be taking all this with a pinch of salt - she is still a child.

Her relationship with other girl is none of your business (again said kindly) The only time you need to put boundaries in is if she wants her to sleep over and you have every right to say no. There will always be secrecy with teenagers. Its completely normal for her to not want to share her inmates feelings and thoughts with you.

She wants to keep it private and that's her prerogative. She is 15 and allowed that amount of privacy. If she was dating boy would you really want to be discussing their relationship with their parents. If its because they are in a same sex relationship - its not down to you to 'out' this girl to her parents - that is absolutely none of your business.

Be careful that you don't turn your dds developing relationship in to it being all about you. If you are struggling with her being in a same sex relationship own it.

I have three kids. My middle one has declared she won't be having kids and I said 'good on you!' Our young girls are not breeding stock and if children are not even on her radar at 15 - then good on her.

Her sexual preference might change - she is still a child
Her want of children might change - she is still a child.

Be careful not to alienate her for your need to have all the answers and need to discuss this with her GF parents.

The relationship might not be some all encompassing, love of her life, sexual revelation and instead some thing she just enjoys exploring in privacy. It might not be that deep OP.

Stop over analysing it and just leave her be - because in reality its none of your business. The only thing you really get a say in is if she wants her to sleep over - and just say no. ( and stop earwigging on her conversations with her friends)

I am honestly not having a go but your last post makes you sound a bit neurotic/up tight.

@SarrotCoup

I also feel very limited in who I can talk to IRL about this because of the secrecy. DD doesn’t want me to make any “DD is gay” type comments because 1) awkward 2) if I wouldn’t be observing “DD is straight” then why do the equivalent because she’s not. My friend’s son is dating but I’m not allowed to say DD is too.

OP, why would you want to tell people your dd is gay? and honestly I dont blame her for not wanting you to tell people she is dating as its no one else's business.

Honestly step back before you really push her away.

I have had zero input to my dds relationships, I have to smile and nod, say their partners were lovely and that was it. It has never ever occurred to me to discuss my dds partners or relationship status with anyone.

Agree you are overthinking this massively OP. The worst thing you can do is start to be controlling. Be watchful, respectful, kind, joyful but not controlling. If you are sad that you didn’t spend enough time focused on her rather than the internet (seriously?) when she was younger, that’s something you have to let go now. What’s done is done.

You sound quite needy to be honest & that's likely to send your DD further away. Stop listening to her group chats & let her get on with her life.

My mother was similar to you & I couldn’t wait to move out into my own place at 18, to get some space from her.

I think spending too much time on the internet is a bit of a red herring. Possibly OP has been bowled over with he knowledge her dd is in a relationship with another girl and blames herself for missing supposed cues?? I think OP finds this much more of a bigger 'thing' than her dd.

Also OP, I carry 'secrets' for all my dds. My dds will often say 'dont tell my dad' and I dont.

I wouldn’t dream of telling her GF parents, absolutely none of my business. I am also not eavesdropping, I WFH much of this in the evenings on the floor above DD and she chats to her friends all hours, I’m not listening to her conversation, it’s the constant sounds of shrieks and laughter which are very sweet.

I think I need to take this offline now and have a chat with a friend IRL. I wasn’t doing this because I wanted to make sure there was absolutely no way something could make its way to DDs GF parents but I have good friends who are completely unconnected. As you say, I’m overthinking this and I need to reset.

Thanks all. Am juggling a few different things from an emotional perspective (recent deaths etc) and while I like WFH the relative isolation is probably driving me a bit nuts.

@SarrotCoup

I also feel very limited in who I can talk to IRL about this because of the secrecy. DD doesn’t want me to make any “DD is gay” type comments because 1) awkward 2) if I wouldn’t be observing “DD is straight” then why do the equivalent because she’s not. My friend’s son is dating but I’m not allowed to say DD is too.

Why is it anyone else's business? And why do you want to tell people when it could put the other girl at risk from her homophobic parents?

Good luck OP 💐

(I have a problem with the friend’s parents not knowing but it’s not my place to interfere there).

Why do you want them to know? If they're homophobic then surely it's better if they don't.

Your DD sounds lovely, as do you. My DD was a lesbian at that age, had always had friends to sleepover and I did not treat lesbian partner as any different (though you are right, I would not have let a boy share the bed). At 15 it is all about them and their learning, she loves you but is not interested in you as a person - you are just mum - wallpaper in her life, and this is good, you have provided the safety she needs to go out and explore. This is her time and her drama and one day
(age 21 -25) she will come back to you and see you as a person again. Then you will have a relationship as two adult women as well as mum and daughter and that is lovely.