Interested to hear your opinions on this...

[hothead323]

My boyfriend and I were having a conversation about a couple who are mutual friends of ours after he went out with the male partner of the couple. When he came back, he said that the gf was pressuring him to get married.

The couple have been together for 17 months and moved in together after 4 weeks due to lockdown last year. She is 34 and he is 31.

My bf says he feels sorry for his friend because he feels under pressure to propose when he's 'not ready' and apparently the more the girlfriend talks about it, the more it puts him off the idea. Other than that, the bf said that everything is good in their relationship and they regularly talk about buying a bigger house, having a future together etc

I was sticking up for the girlfriend and saying at 34, when she wants marriage and children, she hasn't got time to waste and after 17 months this guy should know whether or not he wants to marry her. My boyfriend says that that's not fair and that he does want to marry her one day, just not yet. I said it would be fair of the gf to tell the bf to shit or get off the pot and my bf said if she did that it would indicate she's not the right girl for him as she's not considering his feelings about the situation. He also suggested that she should propose to him rather than the other way around (not really sure how this makes a difference!)

Anyway, I'm interested to hear your opinions. My bf told me v early on that he wants to get married etc and we are only 7 months in and not living together yet so we are nowhere near that stage at the moment, but I do wonder if his response to our friends' predicament could be reflective of his own feelings about marriage and commitment. He does have friends who are married though and speaks highly of their relationships.

Thoughts?

17 months is quite early days to be fair. If he’s not ready she ha to respect that and back off. As long as he’s honest with her and not stringing her along. I can understand that she’s worried with the clock ticking but it doesn’t sound as though he’s not committed to her.

he does want to marry her one day

What's that? 3 years maybe, if he feels it. Then she's 37 and buggered if it doesn't happen. At her age, it's shit or get off time.

I didn't care about having children so I could be less mercenary. But if she wants kids plural, it's time to get there.

How old are you and your BF, OP?

@Nedclarity thanks for the perspective. The bf did say that they are still getting to know each other so maybe he feels the same about it still being early days.

@MrsTerryPratchett exactly, that's what I'd want to know. I'm 31 and my bf's 32. We've only been together 7 months and aren't living together yet so I don't even know if I'd want to marry him yet but I'd hope that if things go well it would go that way in the next couple of years. I have expressed this to him and told him that if he ever starts to feel like he doesn't see me in his future then he should end it but you see so many stories of women being strung along by non-committal men on here...

She wants kids that's why shes moving it fast.

Then having prioritised wanting a child over getting to know its father in depth, she will be on MN making a thread about how she is stuck in a really shitty relationship with a complete fuckwad of a man who doesnt care about her and doesnt pull his weight.

@JollyJoon

She wants kids that's why shes moving it fast.

Then having prioritised wanting a child over getting to know its father in depth, she will be on MN making a thread about how she is stuck in a really shitty relationship with a complete fuckwad of a man who doesnt care about her and doesnt pull his weight.

Couldn't agree more

I think he went for a drink with the friend, friend started saying he felt too pressured to get engaged. Your bf has reflected on it.
She isn’t wrong for wanting to get married. He isn’t wrong for feeling it’s too much. Reading the same book but on different pages.

The GF asked him if he wants to get married now. He said no. It’s the girlfriend who needs to decide to get off the pot. She is the one with the problem of the status quo.

Instead she is blaming him for not doing anything. Which is what he wants to do. She is the one who wants change. She leaves or she stays. The ball is in her court.

I think it's really positive that OP and her boyfriend can have these conversations. Obviously still too soon for either of you but this shows you can communicate with each other and it's not a difficult subject he wants to avoid.

His friend's relationship unfortunately has shitshow written all over it. 17 months is way too soon to make this sort of commitment, I don't even think they should be buying a house together yet. I appreciate some couple will have "known" earlier and made a success of it but I don't think it's reasonable to expect most people to know at 17 months. And honestly it doesn't matter how much you want a baby or how much your biological clock is ticking - you can't speed up the process of really getting to know someone enough to properly commit to them for life.

Her boyfriend is saying those things to her (and to his mate, so it's not like he's spinning her a line - this is what he genuinely feels) and she's not listening. How this usually goes is that she railroads him into marriage and kids way too soon, he's too weak to walk away and then they have a shitty marriage full of resentment and bad behaviour on both sides.

It seems fairly reflective of his views on marriage so if you wanted to get married sooner than 18 months in then I’d think about it

17 months is quite early to be deciding to marry. I know there are people who make the decision sooner than that, but I think most people take a bit longer (some much longer).

Marry in haste, repent at leisure. I always worry when I see someone saying 'but I'm xx old, I have to start now as I want x children'. That's not a good reason to marry someone. As pp said, that's a recipe for marrying the wrong person, just because they happen to be handy at the time.

When it comes to the decision to marry someone, you have to be absolutely clear in your head, that even if you couldn't have children / didn't want children, this is still the person you want to spend the rest of your days with. Remove the wedding day itself, and the excitement of that. Is this person totally dependanble, respectful, supportive, hard-working, honest? Do I find them attractive? Funny? Do we share the same views on the important stuff? Are we equals, each putting the same amount of effort in to the relationship, and sharing the mental load and physical load?

Sometimes the draw of 'but I want children and he's my bf so we should get moving' is very strong.

But if he isn't 100% sure (and after 17 months that isn't unreasonable) then he is absolutely right not to commit to marriage and children yet. It is wrong to rush anyone in to marriage / children.

OK if someone is intentionally stronging you along that's all kinds of wrong. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

*stringing

I think if you're trying to figure out your partner's feelings about the future via posting a conversation about his friends for a bunch of internet strangers to analyse, you're focusing on the wrong issue.

There's no right or wrong. There's only compatibility and incompatibility.

And if you can't ask your partner how he feels about your future together, get the specifics you need, and trust his answer, you shouldn't be considering marriage with him.

Can see both sides.

Thanks everyone for your replies and giving me some perspective on the situation. Having read your replies I can see his side more now - I guess there is no right answer! Do you think it is common for two people to be absolutely ready for marriage at the same time or is one usually more ready than the other?

@TheFoundations I have asked my partner about how he feels about our future together, but it is too early for either of us to be specific about whether we want to marry each other. We have both said that we would want marriage in our future if things continue to go well and I don't think I can expect much more from him than that at 7 months in.

Do you think it is common for two people to be absolutely ready for marriage at the same time or is one usually more ready than the other

Why does it matter whether it's common? What if it's the case for you and nobody else? What difference does it make?

@MrsTerryPratchett

he does want to marry her one day

What's that? 3 years maybe, if he feels it. Then she's 37 and buggered if it doesn't happen. At her age, it's shit or get off time.

I didn't care about having children so I could be less mercenary. But if she wants kids plural, it's time to get there.

How old are you and your BF, OP?

Oh I love this shit or get off, I’m going to keep that!

Do you think it is common for two people to be absolutely ready for marriage at the same time or is one usually more ready than the other?

Doesn't seem very logical that two individuals will be exactly ready at the same time!

Going from not-ready to ready isn't a straightforward linear journey either. Marriage isn't something I've wanted but over the past 10 years with DP I've obviously thought about my degree of commitment a lot. Sometimes out loud with him and sometimes in my head. Around the three-year mark, some days I'd think, well, I'm absolutely in this for the rest of my life, of course! A week later I'd waver. It wasn't like I woke up one day and was fully ready - it was gradual, sometimes forwards, sometimes backwards.

17 months of living together is enough time though to realise if you want to spend the rest of your life with someone. Its not like they have been casually dating all this time, they have been living together.

His comment on still getting to know each other is odd. They've been living together since 4 weeks into the relationship.

And they are in their 30's, not teenagers or young 20 somethings.

If they want kids, his wishy washy approach is confusing. He says he wants to marry her. But not yet. The only men I know of who said this were ones who actuallly didn't want to marry that person but life was good for the time being. Ones who still thought something better might come along, so they strung it out a bit to see.

I personally think hes stringing her along, subconsciously even, and although he may want to get married one day, he's not sure its to her.

And if he is really serious about wanting to marry her 'one day', then he needs to commit to some sort of time frame. At some point in the future isn't good enough when wanting kids is involved at their age. She doesn't have forever. What if he is still 'not ready' in a years time? She'll be 35, and in a dilemma whether to keep hanging on for him to 'be ready' or get out and find someone who wants what she does and loves her enough to commit, but thats not going to happen overnight.

This is why I would never "move in".

@Bookworm20

17 months of living together is enough time though to realise if you want to spend the rest of your life with someone. Its not like they have been casually dating all this time, they have been living together.

His comment on still getting to know each other is odd. They've been living together since 4 weeks into the relationship.

And they are in their 30's, not teenagers or young 20 somethings.

If they want kids, his wishy washy approach is confusing. He says he wants to marry her. But not yet. The only men I know of who said this were ones who actuallly didn't want to marry that person but life was good for the time being. Ones who still thought something better might come along, so they strung it out a bit to see.

I personally think hes stringing her along, subconsciously even, and although he may want to get married one day, he's not sure its to her.

And if he is really serious about wanting to marry her 'one day', then he needs to commit to some sort of time frame. At some point in the future isn't good enough when wanting kids is involved at their age. She doesn't have forever. What if he is still 'not ready' in a years time? She'll be 35, and in a dilemma whether to keep hanging on for him to 'be ready' or get out and find someone who wants what she does and loves her enough to commit, but thats not going to happen overnight.

Feelings aren't governed by arbitrary timelines of 12,17,18,24 months. Another one is 'you're supposed to 'know' if you want to spend the rest of your lives together at whatever arbitrary date insert here (I even think that the concept is insane in itself, but that's another discussion).

I used to be a little bit like Op, wanting to know 'where a relationship was going', focusing on the outcome because I was terrified of being left childless by a man

I ended up going down the sperm donor route and am currently pregnant. The pressure of meeting someone is immense for women in their 30s. I have to say, I no longer care about relationships in that sense. Of course, it would be wonderful to meet someone for 'me', but no longer feeling shackled by a partner whether they will or won't be wasting my fertility ...

At the end of the day, nobody can predict the future, you take a chance, assess the risk at the the with the information you have and make a decision that is most suitable.

The current generation seem to be much slower to reach emotional maturity, and much more commitment phobic, than my generation (baby boomer).
Modern men in particular seem to use online dating as a pick n mix counter, confident that plenty of other women will be available if the present girlfriend chucks them for failing to commit.
And women seem to think their fertile window extends indefinitely, and put off children until they are in the last chance saloon.
I met my DH when I was 19, he was 20. We were students and moved in together after 3 days. We married when I qualified as a doctor, aged 24. That was considered to be later than average for a wedding in those days! We had our DDs at 33 and 35 - again, later than usual, and I was regarded as an elderly primigravida at the time.
I don't know the solution - I notice that my DDs and friends tend to date or marry men about 8 to 10 years older than themselves, and this might reflect the delayed maturity of current men.

@DuchessOfDisaster

This is why I would never "move in".

Do you mean you'd marry / have children with someone you'd never lived with? I understand not wanting to live together if you don't want those things with someone but if you do, they seem massive risks to take on someone you've never lived with.

17 months is more than enough time to know if you want to be married to someone.

Wanting to marry “one day” is vague. What is one day? 2 years? 4 years? 10?

Your friend needs to decide if she wants to stay and wait for “one day” or leave.

Men will waste the last years of a woman’s reproductive life if she isn’t upfront and does not honour her own time frame.

They sound like his time frame and her timeframe do not line up. So if I were her then I would make plans to leave. I would rather be single than with a man who is wasting my time.

They have been living together and playing house for 17months.. so they were getting to know one another during this time.

Women need to either be able to leave when a man says he is not ready or willing to risk knowing that it might be several years before he is “ready”.

As pp have pointed out. Men today seem perpetually stuck in their early 20s not wanting to accept that they are adults and unwilling to progress into next life stages (which for some means marriage and family).

I would leave him tbh. 17 months living together and you’re still not ready? No.. not for me.

17 months of living with each other is enough time to know whether or not you would want to get married, provided that marriage is something that you want in life.

By the time you're in your 30's, you already know what sort of age you could 'see yourself' getting married too, and I think it's disingenuous to pretend otherwise by always saying ''one day....''.

It seems as if everyone today, both male and female, has some sort of Peter Pan syndrome, because no-one seems willing to say ''I'd like to be married by 31yrs old, and be planning to become a parent by 35yrs old or so''

Just be honest. If being a parent by 33yrs old is what you'd like to happen in your life, then you need to be able to say it !

It's not so long ago that couples would never have dreamed of living together until they were married for goodness sake ! And I agree that it's fantastic that no longer holds true for most couples, but I do sometimes think we've gone too far the other way......

Nowadays it's more a case of 'living in Never Never Land' than anything else !

It's all ''maybe'' or ''in the future'' or ''perhaps one day'' etc etc

It's almost as if people 'assume' they actually have 'forever' to get married or have kids, when the sad truth is that they don't !

Realistically, men can dither and procrastinate for decades before 'deciding' to get married or have kids, but then they often end up as geriatric husbands to younger wives ( who may well dump them for younger men or have affairs with younger men) and elderly parents to children.

Women, on the other hand, realize that their 'fertile' years are finite, but they often feel 'pressure' to achieve a 'career' first, as well as feel they shouldn't 'pressure' their partners to get married and have children, so they try very, very hard to make themselves 'into' their partners 'ideal woman' in an effort to 'secure' their hoped for future and 'life goals' through marriage/ parenthood etc

But this often leads to very unhappy marriages to partners that are not ideal

We don't have endless time to live, we have very short and finite lives, and I think many people would achieve many more of their 'life goals' by ignoring what anyone else thinks and being 100% honest with their partners.

It's something I've always tried very hard to do (and broke up with quite a few BF's because I wouldn't do things to their 'timetable' !).

It hasn't always been 'easy', I've cried (a lot !) and laughed (even more !), and it sure has been stressful at times ( I'm talking bout the kids here !), but I have achieved most of my 'life goals', including marriage, children, travel and career goals.

Please don't let your own life 'pass you by', simply to please others

You don't have a timeline on when to get married, but you absolutely do have a timeline in your fertility.

The issue is also intertwined with the social narrative of meet a partner/cohabit/get married/have children.
It is what society expects most if us to do.
The assumption is that this is some sort of a given for everyone. When in reality it isn't.

Because romantic partnerships are revered by society and are seen as something that ought to be pursued at any cost, there will continue to be the pressure (mainly on women) to achieve these milestones (also in a particular order).

Having observed around me, a lot of people do end up compromising settling because they have run our of time to look for 'love'/are nearing the end of their fertile years/the prospect of loneliness is more overwhelming than being single/financial pressures to stay in unsatisfactory relationships. Or their definition of love is so vastly different.

@updownroundandround

"But this often leads to very unhappy marriages to partners that are not ideal" - and this is true.