Undiagnosed autism or narcissim?

[BeGonegonegone]

Firstly, I sincerely apologise to any autistic people reading this who might be angered by my confusion between narcissistic and autistic behaviour.

DH is like his mother, whether it is autism or narcissism, I don't know. My mind regularly changes as I see traits of both. I am leaving him because I can not take any more of his difficult behaviour, regardless of cause, because it's killing my soul. But I am concerned for my daughters and the impact of his moods, disjointed behaviours and choices; I'd like to know what I'm likely to be dealing with as they grow up. How he might affect them and how I can counter-balance it. Again, I am sorry if my nativity or lack of knowledge offends anyone here.

I'll begin with MIL:
-She genuinely thinks it's ok to talk at me on and on and on and on and not listen to anything at all that I have to say.
-She makes digs about my parenting if it doesn't match her own parenting style.
-She couldn't understand why I didn't want her visiting all the time when my DCs were born and was offended that I didn't want her tagging on to my maternity leave, wherever I went.
-She has terrible fine motor skills- for example, she can't do up zips.
-She is offended by people who are good at things that she isn't.
-She has special focuses or novelties, then gets bored and moves on to something else.
-Bad time management- can't plan or organise.
-Any demand on her time and she will do the complete opposite.
-Always late
-Will suddenly become best friends with someone she barely knows.
-If anyone criticises her behaviour she becomes hysterical, demands how right and perfect she is.
-Has no sympathy skills and brings absolutely everything back to her. Like when I was pregnant and had a minor bleed, I got a full account of her miscarriage and the passing of the foetus whilst I was awaiting a scan that day to find out if my baby was ok.
-She has no self discipline with food or going to bed at a reasonable time.

DH:
-No sympathy at all if I'm ill or DCs are ill and it inconveniences his plans. Will sulk for days if anything hampers his fun.
-No sense or urgency when DCs get hurt or are on danger.
-Never wrong. Never says sorry. Will hark on arguing the toss despite him clearly being wrong about something. But he's clever about it and deflects everything back at me creating tit for tat scenarios.
-Can't talk about anything serious- will clam up and wirhdraw
-Bad hygiene and no pride in his appearance.

• Can't time manage at all and will make himself later by procrastinating further.

-Special all consuming interests. -Can't aim for the long game- all about immediate gratification. When DCs were newborn, couldn't delay his hobby for a couple of months whilst we got used to things. -Claims to not desire love or affection, yet behaved differently at the beginning of our relationship. -Unhealthy obsession wih food and binge eats. -Is devious in arguments- manages to gaslight me into thinking I'm wrong when I'm right and have asked him to do x, y and z. He will deny it as if it's fact then when hes proven wrong, still won't appolgise but then call me out for being petty. -Joyless- doesn't look forward to anything that's no benefitting him directly. Gets no joy out of watching our children get joy. -He's possessive of his stuff and won't part with anything.

There is probably much more but I'm curious to know what other posters think is going on? I want to know what I'm dealing with as I begin the separation process and have to co-parent with him. His mother endeavours to be his side-kick.

I was just about to ask why were you still with him.

As you said yourself it doesn’t matter which it is or why it is, the fact is it’s made you miserable and you want to leave. Good for you!!!

As for what to expect for the separation process, I think you know well enough that given his personality and traits that it won’t be a straight forward or simple process. All you need to take into account is the fact the you know he’ll play dirty, you know he will lie, you know he will attempt to manipulate. Essentially he will be the exact same person he’s always been just probably worse as he will have no reason to hold back. So, thinking about it, you know what to expect don’t you? So you make sure you remember this and to protect yourself and your own interests at all times, don’t allow him to manipulate you, have your solicitor do as much of the communicating as possible. No one can predict the future, but you can prepare yourself as much as possible.

Good luck.

Personally, I think there are some similarities and differences between some types of autism and low level narcissism. I sometimes think about this in my own family, and agree it can be very hard to separate some behaviours out. Have you heard of PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance - its one type of autism e.g. where their hygiene is bad and their time-keeping is awful). I also suspect there are genetic links of some kind. I have no answers, OP. All I do, personally speaking, is avoid the people and behaviours when I can as I find them often self-involved and selfish or distressing. I don't know how you can stay with your husband though - it sounds exhausting and sad. I think you would be better of on their own.

MIL sounds like a narc.

I agree that they both have traits of PDA. I think that's the trouble @lemor these traits/conditions are so hereditary that you're surrounded by these people when all in the same family.

There are traits in his brother and sister too but not as extreme. But I hate family gatherings because of it.

The MIL definitely reads as narcissistic. Her son reads as miserable to be with regardless. Really though these things are clusters of habits and traits that overlap with one another. The important thing is you're getting clear of them.

I agree with pp, possible that they both have either of these conditions, but ultimately it sounds soul destroying for you, so it's great you have made the decision to leave. Protect yourself and your daughters from as much of this as you can - low contact or no contact (with the family) is best. These people don't change, and often dysfunction runs in families - either hereditary or 'learned'/'absorbed'. It is tragic of course, but you have the opportunity to remove yourself and your children from the cycle. Good luck.

Understanding or diagnosing autism is most important to the person themselves - and this implies they're interested to explore it. It's of very limited use to others.

I would put my energy into separation and moving forward, not understanding the intricacies of behaviour you can't live with and can't fix.

You can have both autism and a personality disorder. Also, plenty of autistic people are a joy to be around so it doesn't excuse being a joyless, nasty asshole.

Bit tbh it doesn't matter what the label is, they both suck. Life is too short. Being able to put a name on shitty personalities or behaviours would not justify or excuse them. Be with people who make you feel happy and respected and loved. Remove and reduce contact to a minimum with those who don't.

Your MiL sounds like my FiL. He thinks everything should be about him. I lost 2 babies during pregnancy and he just wanted to talk about the holiday he'd just had. There are plenty of other examples like that. I don't know if he needs a label of any kind tbh I just think he's a horrible person. Some people are just horrible and that's that, sorry. I hope things improve for you now.

Only medical professional cam diagnose. It's pointless asking strangers on the Internet and even if you do apologies in advance , it is offensive. (To some people)

You know what you're dealing with to separate as you've written a list. Doesn't matter what it is, separation will be difficult.

You're not qualified to diagnose either, so even if you reach a conclusion, you'll never know if it's right.

Focusing on working out what's causing him/them to behave in this way is a way of a) offering them an excuse and b) not looking at what you're doing to yourself by staying.

Keep looking forwards: How do I get out, what do I need to do to separate this aspect/that aspect of our lives, what will make x or y process easier for me as time goes on, etc. Notice that none of these thought processes is about him. You're separating. It's not just a physical thing; you have to separate your habitual train of thought from him, too. 'Why is he like this?' is a train you need to get off as soon as you can, because otherwise, once it gets going at speed, it can be almost impossible to get off, and you'll still be on it 10 years after leaving him, having wasted millions of opportunities to make a brilliant life for yourself.

My father sounds a bit like your husband. I’m glad you’re not trying to stick with him ‘for the sake of the children’ as she did.

Also, even if someone IS autistic it doesn’t give them the right to treat you unpleasantly. It’s not an excuse.

Some of your MIL traits sounds very adhd to me. Only some though, the rest sound like her being unpleasant.

Even if she has got something underlying that’s a reason of some of it, but not an excuse for being horrible.

What was the MIL's own Mother like?

What you have work now is how you are going to co parent with this ...

And what have your kids got get them diagnosed with what ever they got .

This is an offensive post as well as being totally ridiculous.

You think strangers can now diagnose mental health conditions over the Internet? Not everything is a 'label'.

This post also shows there is still a long way to go for autism awareness and how incredibly easy it is to use as a reason for behaviour 'oh it must be undiagnosed autism' . It completely minimises the stress and length a medical diagnosis takes.

I don't think autism is anything like a a narc. No different to when armchair psychologists say bipolar behaviour when it's abusive. I know someone with autism and they are nothing like a narc. Likewise a wonderful person I know has autism and she is nothing like a narc. Please be careful with your words. Banding about misinformation is highly damaging to individuals.

The comparison between the two is completely non-sensical. Of course they have things in common... a dog is like a horse, in that it has a leg at each corner and a face on the front. Psychopathic murderers and buddhists have things in common (both like to eat breakfast cereal, for example) It doesn't make them similar or confusing to differentiate.

Narcissist has lost all of its meaning, like anxiety, because people are keen to diagnose those around them because they've googled the behaviours. It is an offensive comparison though, cripes.

Have you thought about your own diagnosis BeGone? You seem keen to (mis)diagnose your husband's ignorance, but not your own ...

In other news, people can be ignorant/ unkind/ offensive without having any difference or disorder.

people can be ignorant/ unkind/ offensive without having any difference or disorder

NPD, is a personality disorder, so integral to the person and their personality. It's now thought that instances of NPD are quite high in society and the cause of high conflict individuals.

Op, it's the manipulation, contempt and self focus that defines narcissism. Also if a person is narcisstic then they usually behave really badly once you have left. Do you know his relationship history? Does he speak positively about his ex's? Are they all bad or can he discuss their positive traits?

If it's narcissism expect him to react terribly and for that reason it is useful to know. I didn't have awareness of NPD so was shell shocked, when I left, as the backlash was so vindictive. If he is narcisstic then you need to plan differently to leave. There is a uk solicitor (Karin Walker) who advises on NPD divorces so worth listening to a few of her podcasts.

Your set up sounds very similar to my ex and his mother, be prepared for his total selfishness when it comes to everything, if you are leaving him he will blame you for everything, you have to be constant and stable for them. A diagnosis of anything does not excuse this behaviour.

I know people with autism and none of them are like this. Your DH and MIL both just sound like arseholes. No need to try and diagnose them with anything.