BIL advice...

[EJSW]

Sorry this is going to be a long one. I'm a long time lurker but first time poster. This is really worrying me and I don't want to upset anyone IRL by talking it about it

My DH's family have had problems with my BIL since before I met him (10 years). I'm not sure exactly how long but since he was mid teens and he's 32 now. He moved away 5 years ago but is due to move back soon and my MIL is keen for us to put everything behind us, move on and have a relationship with BIL.

He's a drug addict and alcoholic, so I recognise he needs help, but he refuses it and has done so much over the years that I'd be here forever listing everything. But to give a few examples:

• He showed up at my PIL's house while they were on holiday, high on drugs. Me and DH were there. He smashed the house up, accused DH of moving his drugs, and then went for him with a meat clever. He was so high he ended up hurting himself, luckily DH was not hurt. Caused thousands ££ of damage.

• Showed up at our house, drunk and high. DH tried to calm him down, DH ended up with a dislocated hip, a broken nose and some other minor injuries. I (wrongly) started shouting at him and he ended up pushing me and I fell down the stairs. He then took the keys for my DH's car, drove off and crashed it in the next town.

• Has stolen from a lot of family members to buy drugs and alcohol, and damaged a lot of property. He makes horrible threats; to burn down houses and kill people, he has a horrible temper.

• He assualted his girlfriend, smashed up her house (including breaking all the windows while her baby was inside), then stole her car and again crashed it. He was arrested but didn't attend his court hearing. He eventually turned himself in after a warrant was issued for his arrest and he was given a conditional discharge. This is still in place.

• Ran up a load of debt while registered as living at my PIL (he's always in between houses). They ended up with bailiffs at the house. My FIL had recently had a heart attack and ended up back in hospital from the stress of it.

My MIL in particular thinks I'm unreasonable in holding a grudge. I've always respected that he's her son so I've not once said anything bad to her about him, I've just avoided any events he'll be at and ignore any mention of him. She brings him up a lot but I'm not sure if this is an attempt to get me to forgive him, or if she just needs to vent. We're close and I'm the only other female in the family so she does talk to me a lot when she's worried about things. It's usually telling me the bad stuff too, so it doesn't help move me towards forgiveness as it's just a constant chain of awful behaviour. And I care for my PIL so it whilst I don't care about him, it hurts me to see them hurt and they'd be broken if anything happened to him (prison, injury).

My DH is understanding about it all. He knows and appreciates how I feel so wouldn't expect me to have a relationship with BIL. They don't have one and rarely talk, so no worries from this side of things.

I don't want to upset my PIL but the thought of having a relationship with him makes me feel sick. I've had treatment for anxiety in the past and my MIL says that because of this I should understand that he's not well. But I've never done anything to anyone because of my anxiety, and I've taken every piece of help offered to me, so I struggle to see us as comparable.

What would you do? Should I try and build a relationship with him for the sake of my PIL, or stand my ground that the things he has done are unforgiveable to me? Should I be the one to say it or should I speak to DH and see if it's something he'd want to say on our behalf? I just don't want to upset anyone, including myself.

Sorry again that this was so long . I'm really stressing myself out over it and needed to get it all out.

@LannieDuck, there has always been a lot of pressure to keep him out of prison and I agree this has meant he doesn't see any consequences to his actions. There have been periods his PIL have "cut him off" after bad times but this never lasts long. I don't blame them for wanting a relationship with him but I agree with @Dery that tbh prison could help him. He would have to get clean for starters. He's been "let off" a lot of things, either because my PIL think they're helping him or out of pure fear. His ex girlfriend was terrified of him and would never have spoken to the police. I'm embarrassed to say I wouldn't either, he had threatened to burn down my house and I was scared of how my PIL would react too. I'm so easily swayed and hate the thought of upsetting anyone. For a long time I was even really bothered by the thought of him not liking me! A combination of therapy and DH's help and I am over that now though.

Kind of linked to @Notaroadrunner but I bend over backwards to please people. I feel the need to reply to every message, answer every call etc. Whereas DH can step back if needs be, I never seem to be able to! I feel sorry for my MIL that one son is a nightmare and the other is always busy, so I spend a lot of time trying to compensate for that when I guess it's not really my responsibility.

I can identify with a lot of what of what you are saying, as have an addict in our family. Addiction is very much a family disease, but there is support for the family & friends of addicts. www.famanon.org.uk or www.al-anonuk.org.uk Both groups have UK wide meetings, literature, helplines etc.
Families Anonymous supported me to put in boundaries, let the addict feel the consequences of their poor choices, tough love. Why should an addict seek help, when other people are trying to rescue them, minimise their behaviour etc?
Unfortunately your MIL’s response is not uncommon.

@Dontbeme

My MIL in particular thinks I'm unreasonable in holding a grudge

You are looking at this all wrong OP. This woman wants you to play nice with a man that physically assaulted you and injured your DH, her own son. She is showing you that she will put her own comfort above your physical safety. You need to start getting very angry and ask her why what he did should be forgotten? I would be cutting contact right back, I bet shes the type to show up with him at your house to "smoothe" things over :ie back you into a corner to get you to STFU.

I agree.

And you can forgive someone, if that's what she wants, without actually having them in your life. That's not holding a grudge, that's just protecting yourself.

She might have forceful opinions, but she doesn't get to dictate what you choose to do about BIL. If you decide that BIL will not be allowed in your home, tell her, and tell her that if she tries bringing BIL over, you will not be answering the door to either of them.

She and FIL are enabling BIL's behaviour. He's refusing help because he knows that there are no real consequences for him so doesn't see any reason to change.

My MIL in particular thinks I'm unreasonable in holding a grudge. I've always respected that he's her son so I've not once said anything bad to her about him, I've just avoided any events he'll be at and ignore any mention of him. She brings him up a lot but I'm not sure if this is an attempt to get me to forgive him, or if she just needs to vent. We're close and I'm the only other female in the family so she does talk to me a lot when she's worried about things. It's usually telling me the bad stuff too, so it doesn't help move me towards forgiveness as it's just a constant chain of awful behaviour. And I care for my PIL so it whilst I don't care about him, it hurts me to see them hurt and they'd be broken if anything happened to him (prison, injury).

Oh OP You need to take about a dozen giant steps backwards here. Why do you feel sorry for a woman who is trying to force a relationship between you/your husband and a man who has physically attacked you both!? You both could have been killed!

Refusing to have a relationship with a man who could have killed you is not "holding a grudge", it is sensible, proportional, reasonable self preservation. I am amazed you were pressured not to report this to the police. I would have pressed charges for attempted murder and would now have a restraining order against him. Your barometer for what is normal appears to have been completely worn away by this family.

Were your PIL "broken" when their son injured YOU and your husband (their other son!)? No, they were obviously not (or, at the very least, they certainly wouldn't be pressurising you to expose yourselves sto his presence in your lives ever again - y'know, the man who attacked you with a f*ing cleaver/pushed you down the stairs). So while they would be broken if anything happened to him (the violent thug) they are not so caring towards you or their other son. Recognise this.

This happens so often in this kind of situation. The "non-problematic" party (your husband and, by extension, you) are cast as the problem (wails of "why won't you just forgive him/move on/let it go??" - but no wails directed at the thug of "you horror, you attacked our son and DIL! How could you? We don't wish to see you again until you can prove you have changed!")

If I were you, I'd cut content with your in laws entirely. Your MIL has cast her thug son as the golden child who can do no wrong (literally, attempted murder of her other child is fine, apparently). Your husband seems to have a much better measure of her than you do, so she is trying to cast you as a flying monkey to bring him back into line. Stop feeling sorry for her. Start priorifiisng your husband (and yourself). You cannot save them.

I'd tell her you are scared of him and with good reason. That given his history and the fact that he has injured people on the past and terrorised his ex, you are not safe. Explain much as you love her, you know she cannot guarantee your safety and so you are unable to have a relationship with him or to visit their home whilst he is in it.
And going forward, do report any threats of violence he makes against you or against anyone else. You don't need anyone else's permission to do that, you don't have to discuss it. But there needs to be formal record of his threats.

His parents enable him out of their own misguided loyalty to him. Enabling as they have done to date only gives them a false sense of control and helps no-one least of all their alcoholic son. Alcoholism as well is called the "family disease" for good reason.

Stop bending over backwards to please people!!!!.
Being a people pleaser generally does you no favours at all OP; you need therapy yourself to unlearn that. A therapist can help you build the mental strength you need to create the kind of life you want to live.

For many such people pleasers, the eagerness to please stems from self-worth issues. They hope that saying yes to everything asked of them will help them feel accepted and liked. Other people-pleasers have a history of maltreatment, and somewhere along the way, they decided that their best hope for better treatment was to try to please the people who mistreated them. Over time, for them, people-pleasing became a way of life.

Many people-pleasers confuse pleasing people with kindness. When discussing their reluctance to turn down someone’s request for a favor, they say things like, “I don’t want to be selfish,” or “I just want to be a good person.” Consequently, they allow others to take advantage of them (just like your Inlaws are doing). Whether you excessively blame yourself, or you fear other people are always blaming you, frequent apologies can be a sign of a bigger problem. You don’t have to be sorry for being you.

Start getting out of the people-pleasing habit by saying no to something small. Express your opinion about something simple. Or take a stand for something you believe in. Each step you take will help you gain more confidence in your ability to be yourself.

You need to cut all forms of contact with DH's side of the family entirely before both of you wind up getting hurt physically and mentally again. And do not hesitate at all to involve the police if he makes threats to your person; he should not be treated any differently to a person in the street.

People pleasers as well often start off by being parent pleasers - was that you also OP?.

I'd refuse all contact and would press charges if he turns up and causes any issues. I would also break off contact with his enablers/your PIL.

Please get more therapy to stop you from being such a people pleaser. This man is a huge danger to you and your family. He badly injured your DH, attacked him with a meat cleaver, pushed you down the stairs, yet you are worrying about not wanting to offend his mum?! This is pure madness.

Where will it end? Your MIL is never going to take your side. Your BIL could petrol bomb your house and she'd still make excuses for him. You need to protect yourself and your family. These people are a threat to your safety; BIL directly, MIL indirectly by giving BIL your address and covering for him, yet you are allowing them to absolutely trample you. If you know you can't say no to your MIL then block her texts so she can't pressure you. You're inviting danger into your life by keeping your boundaries so lax.

The other thing is that MIL might be lining you up to be BIL's "carer or next of kin", taking over her role so to speak - you'll be the one taking the calls from the Police in the middle of the night, paying off angry drug dealers, sorting out car repairs, making sure he brushes his teeth and has clean underpants etc. etc.

I'd have disowned him (and mil if she won't accept your choice) at the point you said he's an addict and refusing help. The only one that can help an addict is themselves, they need to want to do it.

And he should be still in prison anyway.

@AttilaTheMeerkat yes, I think so. I am in all areas of my life - work, friends, family. It causes me a lot of stress but I really have a problem with saying no and the thought of upsetting anyone. I have been on the waiting list for NHS treatment for a while now, unfortunately the pandemic has dragged this out and we aren't in a position to pay privately. I recognise the issues people pleasing causes that you and @FlowerFlour have correctly pointed out

This thread has made me look at things in a really helpful way, thank you x

If you are not in a position to pay privately for therapy, perhaps you could read some self help books about People Pleasing and how to stop? I found this link about the best self help books for people pleasers. There are also lots of YouTube videos giving advice too, that might help you.

You can't continue as you are, your BIL is criminally dangerous and your MIL doesn't care who he hurts.

You say that people pleasing causes you a lot of stress - I bet it does! I imagine it's like being basically forced to do things all the time, it must be awful. Once you have learned how to set boundaries your life will become a lot less stressed because you will be in the drivers seat instead of being forced to kowtow to other people all the time. You only get one life, don't let other people steal yours.

@serene12 thank you for those links and I'm really sorry you have experience with abuse in the family too. It really is awful

Thanks @FlowerFlour I will have a look at those. I'm already feeling guilty at the idea of toughening up but I know it does need to be done.

I didn't read to the end
I got to theeat cleaver and pushing you down the stairs

Ypur MIL is deluded. I would have filed criminal charges amd have a restraining order out on him.
I wouldn't be in the same house let alone room with him again.

I would be firmly NC because your MIL clearly cant see the wood from the trees of she wants to put it in the past. She isn't taking no for an answer and will always be pushing boundaries

OP all the wise PPs have said all I need to say. Keep the fuck away from him, he's your MIL's problem not yours.

However you've not mentioned any children? Do you have any? Because there if you do, please don't let him anywhere near them.

I'd also think about investing in a Ring doorbell or similar just in case MIL thinks it's a good idea to bring him round.

If he EVER his violent towards you again. You must call the police. He sounds a vile character and hopefully you'll both have nothing to do with it.

And if that means you see your MIL less or she falls out with you . Her loss. You have to keep yourself and dh safe.

Here is my take in life, stay out of the sphere of influence of abusive people. I absolutely know the costs of this OP, I don’t speak to my family following their sweeping CSA under the rug and DHs father has committed significant acts of violence against MIL who has stayed with him. But from my experience when people have compromised themselves to stay in with an abusive person and your BIL as well as being an addict is highly abusive, they will expect the same from you literally no matter what the cost is to you.

We don't have any DC, and honestly the family set up has played quite a big part in that decision up to now. I'm not comfortable bringing children into that sort of environment. Paired with a forceful MIL and the anxiety I've had, I've spent so much time thinking about all the disastrous things that could happen if we did and it's left me quite scared at the thought. It's not the only factor of course, but a big one nonetheless and I'm hoping it won't always be one. Nobody other than DH knows that though, MIL is very keen for us to have children but I just say I'm focused on my career for now.

Agree with the previous posters. Your BIL has demonstrated multiple times that he is a danger to you and your DH and god forbid any children you may have. I also saw that he threatened to burn down your house. Was this before or after he stole and crashed your car.
Your MIL's attitude - that you and the entire family must continue to make sacrifices for this dangerous out of control man - means that she is also a danger to you. You have acknowledged that she might bring him to your house to "smooth things over"
Your PILs are not doing anyone any favours, even your BIL, by continuing to enable him, and this behaviour does nothing to discourage his violent outbursts which means he could actually end up killing or grievously injuring any of you.
I'd be telling this to MIL straight and taking a BIG STEP back from your BILs enablers.
I also agree with pp that MIL is trying to set you and DH up as future carers and enablers.
If he does anything to either of you again, report him and get a restraining order. Sorry you have to go through this, but you need to protect yourselves.

Bloody hell, I would be very afraid of this nutter and keep him well away from me and mine. I understand that fear of him has had an influence on your deciding to have children or not. What a fucking bastard he is. I would move away, secret location, then decide about kids or not. He just should not have this control over your life choices. I would leave and go NC with MIL, she enables him.

Jesus your mil sounds seriously intense!

You and your DH need to get on the same page and start saying no to her.

Can you move further away? (not right now but in fullness of time) i would want serious distance

One thing you may find helpful is practicing asserting yourself in low risk situations. Eg. No that isnt how i lile my nails shaped. Please can you change my coffee its not hot enough etc.

I cut my BIL out when I had children. PIL and DH may accept him but absolutely no chance on this earth was he getting anywhere near my children. They did meet him at DGM funeral but when he tried to speak to them I walked over and stood in front of the with my arms crossed and stared at him until he left. Interestingly my stance emboldened DH who hasn't spoken to him for 10 years now, others including cousins, uncles and aunts invite us and PIL to events and make it clear he is unwelcome.

@EJSW

We don't have any DC, and honestly the family set up has played quite a big part in that decision up to now. I'm not comfortable bringing children into that sort of environment. Paired with a forceful MIL and the anxiety I've had, I've spent so much time thinking about all the disastrous things that could happen if we did and it's left me quite scared at the thought. It's not the only factor of course, but a big one nonetheless and I'm hoping it won't always be one. Nobody other than DH knows that though, MIL is very keen for us to have children but I just say I'm focused on my career for now.

I appreciate this is difficult but you should tell MIL what you've just said above. Say it like it is. She's living in a happy dream world which is affecting your life.

Otherwise its just colluding with her to pretend everything is fine. You and DH should make her realise she needs to consider how all of this is affecting you and DH and how she is not actually helping her DS with this attitude.

Bloomin 'eck! Time is marching by and if you want children you can't let this awful man and PILs attitude make you put everything on hold. I'm so sorry for your situation, I can see it must be very difficult but these people are controlling your life and that is just not right or fair.

He pushed you down the stairs?! Fuck me, I would never forgive that and no, mil can Jack off trying to make you forgive that. Just no. You don’t need to have a relationship with him ever. Tell her to stop telling you anything about him. If she wants him around, then she doesn’t get to see you.