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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Falling out with in laws advice please

14 replies

Tylertammum · 01/11/2021 12:47

Hi everyone,

I’ve never got on well with mil and sil, we’re all oversensitive and just not the same type of people, it’s obvious they don’t like me and I don’t like them. For 13 years it’s ticked on a bit awkwardly but no dramas….. until now.

Basically I am mixed race and recently they brought up the subject of dh grandfather who was racist and I ended up telling them how upset I was that they used to defend his racism ‘he just hasn’t come across it before etc etc’. I told them in a polite way. However they just responded further defending him as if if I truly understood that the poor man just hadn’t been exposed to black people before I would understand. I’m afraid I saw red and replied aggressively, harshly and angrily…. They are refusing to see me now. I’m annoyed because they still haven’t actually acknowledged my feelings, in fact the opposite, it’s now all about how I upset them. HOWEVER I do regret sending such an emotional email especially as SIL has young baby and is getting no sleep. I think they think they’re not racist themselves and grandad has been dead for years so what the fuck is my problem and maybe they are right?

It’s made me really upset and actually suicidal (I know that’s melodramatic but it’s true). Dh is stuck in the middle and in awful situation.

I’ve since apologised for the aggression but not taken back what I said because it was true. Now I don’t know what to do if they continue not speaking to me. I’ve said sorry already. Do I leave it? In all honesty I’d be delighted never to see them but dh would find it hard and so would ds.

Any advice please? Thank you

OP posts:
MoodyMooTutu · 01/11/2021 12:56

@Tylertammum there is nothing wrong with you for being upset and telling them. It is wrong to defend any racism, regardless of when and you were also right to tell them so. How much did you loose it? What did you write in the email? It’s not ok to be aggressive and if you feel suicidal I would guess you feel shame for your actions and want to put the situation right. You’ve apologised but perhaps your DH could try and talk to them to help them see it from your perspective?

Tylertammum · 01/11/2021 13:24

Thank you for your reply. I think maybe you are right, dh trying to remain impartial but maybe he should try and talk to them.

I was pretty angry, i started the message that whilst I understand where they’re coming from and why they want to defend him but I don’t think it’s on then I basically said please don’t defend racism with age or religion but used lots of capitals etc and said that it was deeply hurtful and i hope they never say it to another person of colour and that I expect better from them.

OP posts:
Tylertammum · 01/11/2021 13:25

Ps and you are spot on re feeling shame but also still angry that they haven’t acknowledged my initial upset

OP posts:
Motherofcats007 · 01/11/2021 13:43

To you, he’s JUST a racist dead dude. To them, he was a much loved member of the family who lived in a different age and is a bit racist. By slaying him, you’re criticising their family and they’re probably more sensitive to that. To them he’s more than just his racist remarks. Every time you criticise him it’s like you’re criticising their whole family.

From what it sounds like, they’re not defending his racist remarks or actions, they’re trying to make sense of why he was a racist and want you to know that their family has moved on from these kind of views. Perhaps he would’ve liked you if he had met you and was born at a different time!

I’m sorry this has affected you so much, but I think it’s important to note that yes, a few generations ago, people are openly racist. But society has moved on now and you can’t change the view of a dead man. You cannot change the past, and they’re not defending his actions but merely pointing out him, and many others of that generation, were openly racist.

I hope you can move past this family history

Iwonder08 · 01/11/2021 13:46

It is hard to guess who is in the wrong given we don't know who said what exactly. Angry emails about dead person's beliefs might be an overreaction..

MoodyMooTutu · 01/11/2021 13:53

Honestly? Whilst using capitals is not ok I wouldn’t say that deserves them ignoring you now. You apologised and that’s enough. If they can’t see how they upset you in the first place then they are the ones with the problem, not you. Don’t feel ashamed for saying how much it upset you, there’s absolutely no shame in making your feelings known.

Ironytheoppositeofwrinkly · 01/11/2021 14:01

You have NO reason to be upset. Racism is/was/has always been wrong, and an old white man who has lived all his life in privilege does not deserve their defence. I'd be beyond fuming if my partners family did this and even more angry if my partner didn't back me 100%. The elderly do not have a free pass on racism, it's disgusting.

Tylertammum · 01/11/2021 14:11

Thanks everyone you have given me some much needed solidarity. I think I will leave it a few days and then dh can try and talk to them. By the way I understand that to them he was more than just a racist man, I never said he was a bad person even just that I was upset when they defended his racism.

OP posts:
MaryLamb · 01/11/2021 14:34

I understand why you're upset. When someone had or has views that a) I personally find abhorrent or offensive and b) nowadays most people would find abhorrent or offensive, it is very hard to listen to a third party speak of them as a rounded person with good points too or to listen to abstract musings on why that person holds the views they do or listen to someone put those views in a context.

It's hard because it does sound like a defence of that person (which it often is) and, frankly, it's easier and more satisfying for me to despise and dismiss that person wholesale. I also want people to unreservedly take my side and wholeheartedly condemn the other person, dammit!

I think that's completely natural, and I would never beat myself up for feeling that way, but it's the gut reaction, not really the grown-up or helpful line to actually take once you've thought about it.

This person is presumably your MIL's beloved father or FIL. She knows full well that there were wonderful things about him as a person when he was alive, she is correct that his views would probably not have been unusual at the time (and let's not kid ourselves that we all carefully and consciously form our own views in every topic, including those that never really affect our lives - we largely pick them up from our social groups until we have real cause to examine them), and in any event he is dead and she probably has no desire to speak ill of him given that.

You're not unreasonable to think badly of him - you're under no obligation to give him the benefit of any doubt - but you were and are being unreasonable to expect your husband family to speak ill of their own dead relatives to prove their own views on a particular topic or their allegiance to you in some way. You were also unreasonable to basically shout at them because of it.

To be honest, I think you'd understand that a bit more and be willing to let it all lie - knowing that this was a difficult situation for them as well as you - if you otherwise got on, loved them and knew they loved you.

Ultimately, I think you have to ask yourself what you're hoping to achieve here. If you're waiting for them to wholeheartedly condemn their dead father/grandfather to please a woman who doesn't like them anyway, I suspect you're going to have a long wait.

You've apologised for your shouty email. Sooner or later I expect they'll decide to let it go and/or essentially ask for another apology before it's laid to rest. You need to decide whether you're willing to swallow any pride and move on without an apology from them for the sake of peaceful relations (while privately thinking what you like about them) or this is your hill to die on. That's genuinely up to you but just make sure that you're doing it consciously.

Tylertammum · 01/11/2021 15:22

I haven’t asked them to speak ill of anyone, I’ve asked them not to defend racism.

OP posts:
MaryLamb · 01/11/2021 16:53

Well you've asked them not to mount any defence of someone they love who held them.

Either you've spoken negatively about him because of it (and obviously fair enough!) such that they've felt they want to "defend" him in the sense of giving a context to his views or - arguably more to their credit - they themselves recognise that his views are unacceptable and want to pre-emptively contextualise views they know will make other people (rightly) view him negatively.

I don't think your in-laws are defending racism; I think they are motivated by wanting to be allowed to openly love a family member who has now passed away despite his holding views that they, and most everyone else, would find deeply troubling. Their way of doing that - rightly or wrongly - is rationalising those views within a context. By asking them not to do so it likely feels to them that you are asking them to agree that he was simply a bad person in his own right, and I'm sure you can understand why that would cause them difficulty and pain - even if you're right!

isadoradancing123 · 01/11/2021 22:24

Does it really matter now, he has been dead a long time, , just leave it and move on

MMmomDD · 02/11/2021 10:45

OP - I think the issue here is less about the content of your disagreement but rather the fact that you and your in-laws don’t get along and you don’t like them.
So it’s natural that anything they say is immediately taken with deeper and more negative meaning by you. It’s called confirmation bias.
(We all do that, by the way. This isn’t a criticism)

Of course, you can say - but race, etc. And of course, race is an important issues these days and there is more awareness, etc.
And for you these are issues that are extremely important.
But for most people of non-mixed race in the Western European society - our grandparents+ generation - would have been racist, misogynistic, homophobic, transphobic (if they knew what it was) etc., etc - if we look at them with today’s lens.
You focus on race as all important in this case - but for me, for example - misogyny of yesterday’s is as important. For gay people it’ll be the homophobia…and so on.
The point I am trying to make is that our relatives from generations past are still family to us. And we can love them regardless of their beliefs back in the day. Unless they actually were bad people and hurt others - we tend to not go around denouncing our direct ancestors.
It can be done as a generation for eg - the Germans after WWII went through a period of denouncing Nazi generation. Russians with communism as well.

So - back to your in-laws. I think both of you didn’t do well in the interaction. You made it an ideological issue. They felt you were attacking their family member and didn’t see where you were coming from.
But again - it’s all because of the underlying issues between all of you.

It’s up to you to decide what you want to do now and going forward. Your H is in a tough situation. I hope you figure out a way to not make him chose between you and his family.
Do you have children?

FAQs · 02/11/2021 10:58

I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong, you are defending your family and history, they could have responded by saying they don’t agree with what he said and left it at that, making excuses is justifying it.

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