Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

So unbelievably worried, child arrangement court order enforcement action.

52 replies

Terrified1202 · 26/10/2021 16:38

I will also post this in legal, but wanted to obtain experience from other posters on enforcement action of a child arrangement order.
I have NC for this, but you will recognise which poster I am, I just didn't want this linked back to my other threads about my violent ex that I have posted about on numerous occasions.
Fled horrific domestic violence last year, DD and I were removed by the authorities and child protection and relocated to a protected address, we live in hiding from her father. He is unbeknown to any details regarding our lives now, where I work, where DD goes to Nursery, anything - it is all a secret, one I have managed to maintain for a year.
We have a current interim child arrangement order for interim supervised contact since the start of the year, this was made much by the disapproval of CAFCASS who repeated several times during our hearing that interim contact was significantly dangerous to DD and I, against my better judgement I threw my ex a life line and was advised to suggest supervised in a centre.
We have had multiple issues with the former contact centre, this then led to disbandment of facilitation of them. We were due to start in a new contact centre, but in the interim period my ex made a threat to kill (I can't explain how that was made as it's quite outing) however I reported it to the Police and it is currently being dealt with. As a result of that the Police immediately referred me onto MARAC and I have received a MARAC support letter from the police advising me not to take DD to contact as basically my life is threatened because he is so deranged.
This letter was forwarded onto the Court, Cafcass, Solicitors and the contact centre. As a result of this, my actual words to the new centre were "I have been advised not to take DD to contact"
Several authorities have recommended that I don't take DD to contact because it is also significantly affecting her, in that she has stated on many occasions to her peers and staff at nursery that she is scared of her father and doesn't wish to see him. The Health Visitor also did an emergency home visit and witnessed DD extremely terrified at the mention of her father.
To note, I have made DD available for every single session to date, for the exception of some occasions where she or I were unwell, there was also an occasion where I had to self-isolate. During which, all of these occasions I offered alternatives, and have documentary evidence in the form of emails and texts to support.
Today, I received a call from my DD's HV to say another MARAC referral in the area I reside had been done as they truly believe I am at risk of harm, this resulted in a call from Children's Services, I mentioned the letter from last MARAC and they are now in receipt of a copy and have also advised that I do not take DD to contact and exercise judgement and safeguard.
I have now received an application for enforcement of the court order by my ex with all of the listed missed dated for contact (4 in total) and he is stating that I use DD as a means to control him.
I am really worried and don't know what to do, I am legally aided and my Solicitor is so unbelievably awful - she is a scaremonger and has advised me that he can switch his application to a transfer of residence if he sees fit, however he would need to prove he is safe, which of course he is not.
Significant child abuse was recorded via the former local authority last year, as a result of the last significant assault on me, this prompted child protection to become engaged and remove us out of the local authority and relocate us. I spent several weeks in a refuge before staying on a friends sofa before we were able to relocate to our protected address.
I'm worried that he can apply for a transfer of residence and the Judge will believe him.
What should I be doing now? my Solicitor is now on A/L but has asked me to document everything and write a statement.

OP posts:
Hen2018 · 27/10/2021 00:24

I must start by saying I have no legal training at all.

However, I was taken to court between 30-40 times by my ex husband, over 8 years. This was quite a few years ago now so legal aid was still around. He gave up work once married and has not worked since we broke up so he didn’t have to pay maintenance (and so he could get legal aid, back in the day).

He was perfectly entitled to try and get sole residency of the children and (annoyingly) to then tinker with the access he did get, in many piddling, trifling ways.

I just kept plodding on, giving up my job after I had paid £18,000 in legal fees and couldn’t remortgage the house again. Once on legal aid, my fees were £41,000.

I got sole residency and his access switched around from contact centres (which were all shit, by the way) to seeing the children at his mother’s, depending on his behaviour at the time.

The children were eventually old enough to give their opinion. One goes round for a cup of tea occasionally. The other has refused to see him for 4 years.

On solicitors - they are not all the same. My first was slow and disorganised. I used her while I was in the refuge as she was within walking distance. I then chose a second - out of the frying pan into the fire - what a wally she was! Finally got a decent one on the third attempt who represented me for 6 years.

Terrified1202 · 27/10/2021 08:23

I'm having a call with my solicitor later, however I'm struggling to understand where I've actually breached the order when a) i threw him a life line and suggested supervised in a centre despite a cafcass officer sat in our hearing stating there should absolutely be no contact whatsoever in the interim and b) any contact dates that were missed due to illness, I immediately offered the week after as an alternative. He refuted every offer of an alternative.. He's put two particular dates that I've supposedly breached the order but this was when we had no contact centre to facilitate so I'm unclear as to how I've breached the court order when there were no safe means of supervised contact facilitation. Someone is going to have to help me out here..

OP posts:
RandomMess · 27/10/2021 08:43

He's trying it on, he will use anything to bully, intimidate and frighten you so that you back down, stop fighting and hand DD over.

It's working isn't it?

Lesson learnt never off anything up again, it was a mistake to offer the "life line".

Stick to facts.

He couldn't arrange a contact centre for the contact dates, he breached them not your.

Gingernaut · 27/10/2021 09:07

You have done nothing wrong. You've got to believe that.

He's playing mind games using the only way he can get at you. Through the courts.

Terrified1202 · 27/10/2021 09:20

How will the court actually determine if I've breached the order?

OP posts:
itsgettingwierd · 27/10/2021 09:30

I've read some of your posts before.

I said the same before and will say it again.

Deep breaths. His behaviour shows a controlling abusive man who feels he's losing control.

He knows now that no one sees through him. Everyone is aware of what he's done and expect him to be held accountable. They've stated he shouldn't have contact.

He can apply for all those things you've been told he can apply for.

But anyone can apply for anything - I could apply for the X factor despite being tone deaf Wink

You are doing the right thing keeping records. Just keep those facts and present them.

Keep any letters as factual etc.

He wants an independent social worker section 7 because he knows anyone else involved have all the facts about who he is and what he's done.

He knows he's cannot get to you now - you're strong and I dependent and have that strength to walk away. He wants to get to you through your DD.

Stay strong Thanks

itsgettingwierd · 27/10/2021 09:32

@Terrified1202

How will the court actually determine if I've breached the order?
What does the order say?

Because unless it says that you must attend when ill you haven't breached it.

If it says you must try and arrange an alternative you've done that.

If it says he must arrange the contact centres etc then it's actually him who has broken it!

Terrified1202 · 27/10/2021 10:11

The court order merely states make DD "otherwise available" for fortnightly supervised contact.. As far as I'm aware that's what i did..

OP posts:
wejammin · 27/10/2021 10:25

You have breached the order, that's a fact, BUT if you have reasonable excuse then the breach is not publishable. You do have reasonable excuse, and to have complied with the order would have been putting your child at risk of harm which no judge would ever expect you to do.

Terrified1202 · 27/10/2021 10:38

But breaching the order is actively not turning up for contact, the only times contact didn't take place were during illness but an immediate alternative was offered..

OP posts:
CloseYourEyesAndSee · 27/10/2021 10:41

Did you decide to stop using the contact centre? Did he agree?
Did you make efforts to set up a new contact centre before cancelling the old one?
Do you have it in writing from the health visitor and social services that they advised you to stop contact?
He's going to use the process to intimidate you. That's what he does. That's why you need to be squeaky clean. Keep everything in writing and keep your written submissions short and to the point. What is the letter you have written that is 14 pages long?

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 27/10/2021 10:42

@Terrified1202

But breaching the order is actively not turning up for contact, the only times contact didn't take place were during illness but an immediate alternative was offered..
Did you not say that contact didn't happen when you didn't have a contact centre set up?
SafeMove · 27/10/2021 10:52

Are you the same poster who had a mix up with your DD's birthday and the contact centre, you had asked for the time to be moved forward to facilitate your DD's birthday party, you didn't receive confirmation, turned up at the earlier time to find the contact centre closed, your DD became distressed and you left 20 minutes before the usual contact time?

Atalune · 27/10/2021 11:09

Exactly.

The order was breached but the reasons are valid and can be proven. You don’t have anything to be scared of.

Remember the facts.

Deep breaths

He’s a desperate man and it has been shown and will continue to be shown. He’s intimidating you and worrying you. That’s his desire. That’s what he loves to do.

Try not to let him in.

You said you’ve written a 13 page letter…. Why is it so long?

Justmeandme19 · 27/10/2021 11:46

It's a typical ploy of someone who's trying to take the attention away from themselves. It's also a typical thing for an abuser to do.
My ex tried to get me into trouble and ask for an inforcement of the court order in very similar cercumstances. Don't forget there's no threshold anyone can put an application in, he's just trying to scare and dominate you.
Have a record of the times you hsvnt been to contact etc and just belive in the system.

Terrified1202 · 27/10/2021 12:33

Contact didn't happen because we didn't have a contact centre who could facilitate during those few weeks as the one we agreed on did not have availability, he's listed those as breaches of the court order - but how are they breaches when we didn't have a contact centre!

OP posts:
Terrified1202 · 27/10/2021 12:36

No - I didn't "decide" to stop using the contact centre, there were two occasions where he did not turn up for contact so therefore their policy is two strikes and your out basically, which is fair enough. As soon as the contact centre disbanded, I immediately got in touch with another contact centre to ask if they could facilitate and I submitted a referral form. I have it in writing from the HV that she has advised I don't take DD to contact, and I have the MARAC letter which states the same.
I sent my solicitor a 13 page letter last night addressing all of the supposed breaches and provided text and email written communications to evidence that they were not breaches. A breach of the court order as I understand is that you just don't turn up for contact and make no effort whatsoever to offer even an alternative? - or am I wrong?

OP posts:
wejammin · 27/10/2021 13:54

In binary legal terms, a breach is when you don't comply with the exact letter of the order, BUT you need to stop panicking because even where there is a breach, this can be justified by way of 'reasonable excuse'. You've not done anything that the court would consider unreasonable.

RandomMess · 27/10/2021 14:15

He is achieving want he wanted to.

You are panicking and terrified when you have obeyed the spirit of the court order. Remember the facts. You have been reasonable and you have gone above and beyond to allow supervised contact to occur.

His actions are all about get him focused on him, keeping you terrorised and afraid.

Deep breaths, you have written evidence and he has a big fat zero because you haven't breached it. He is using a legal technicality to continue his reign of terror.

Terrified1202 · 27/10/2021 14:19

I know. I'm not going to over think it all.
Do you suppose the letter from Marac is enough to ask for interim contact to stop until we have a section 7 recommendation? There will be another Marac in a couple of weeks for us which the health visitor will attend also and state the same thing.
Do courts even take Marac seriously?

OP posts:
itsgettingwierd · 27/10/2021 16:39

@Terrified1202

The court order merely states make DD "otherwise available" for fortnightly supervised contact.. As far as I'm aware that's what i did..
I think by offering alternatives you've made her available.

Currently by not making her available you are breaching it but you've been advised to do that by police etc.

Judges will take into account all evidence

KeyboardWorriers · 27/10/2021 16:43

I have experienced an attempt from my ex to enforce. I remember the awful feelings of panic. Stay calm. Keep a clear record of your reasons, and the advice given by others. Show willingness to cooperate. It is very rare any actual enforcement action will be taken. If you have good reasons and are working with them you will be ok.

KeyboardWorriers · 27/10/2021 16:45

My therapist used to say "hold your shape". Keep your integrity, keep working with the authorities, and keep recording everything.

KeyboardWorriers · 27/10/2021 16:48

Cafcass recommended continued contact for my son (he was refusing). I think cafcass were utterly wrong but the key point is despite cafcass recommending contact there were no consequences for me because the court could see my son had solid reasons to refuse. Stay strong

Terrified1202 · 27/10/2021 18:21

I'm just wondering how it'll work as he's provided no evidence whatsoever of the supposed breaches and given a list of dates. Half of which are false.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread