Feeling lost

[Lostatsea30]

I don’t really know what I’m hoping to get from this other than needing to offload. Please bare with me as this might take some explaining.

DH and I have been together for 20 years; we met at the 16. Both our first serious relationship, first sexual partner etc. Neither of us had healthy upbringings, with both sets of parents having difficult relationships. My DH’s parents wouldn’t speak for weeks after arguing and often made it clear it was over him. Mum was so clingy that he couldn’t have a life and his dad felt pushed out and would blame DH for it. He also disclosed that he had a lot of issues with bullying at school and sexual abuse from another male classmate who forced him to do things and he never has told anyone but me. This boys mother and my DH’s mum were good friends so he never felt he could speak out. Apparently this boy would smack him in the head repeatedly if he didn’t do sexual things with him. I was disgusted when he told me and still can’t get my head around it.

My parents lived separate lives, both doing different things, having little shared time and they would argue a lot. My dad was hot headed and would easily ignore my mum for weeks unless she backed down and almost grovelled. I never understood why they were still together (they still haven’t split). I never had any brothers, uncles or other males in my life so my dad was everything I knew about men. Lots of issues within the family, with me always being the black sheep out of me and my sister, expected to take on roles that weren’t acceptable for a young child (can’t explain more as would be outing). As a result, I became a difficult teen. Nothing major but a bit of answering back because I wanted time with my mum and never got it. Mum wouldn’t handle it, she would run to my dad knowing that he would chastise me with his fists. Regularly using objects to hit me and scare me, until I got old enough to stand up to him and threaten to hit him back.

Anyway, I met my DH at 16 and desperately wanted to leave home. Friends at school turned on me for spending time with him and so I became isolated and couldn’t finish school because of this. I got a job, as did my DH and we tried to make it work. We would have lots of arguments in the early days, over silly things. Some were to do with DH’s family, mainly his mum making me feel unwelcome and saying horrible things and also me feeling unloved and unappreciated. DH would say I was insecure and I was. Some of this I think was because he’s never been a talker or able to show his emotions so I’ve never known what’s going on and also not having seen a decent relationship with my parents, I have grown up just desperate to be loved. I probably was too full on and expected too much though.

Parents tried to tell us to split if we kept arguing but we were stubborn and kept going. We bought a house together very young and still had silly arguments. They would be about mismatched sex-drives and me feeling unloved generally, or accusing him of wanting other women. He was a good man and I know he’d never have cheated but wasn’t good at showing affection and I was still desperate for the fairy tale. It didn’t set us up for a healthy start. We then went on to have children and I stopped being so insecure. My DH would say I’d already done some damage there though as he didn’t even look at a woman in a newspaper anymore for fear that I would have criticised him in the past. He said and still says that this has affected his sex drive.

My DH’s family then had an almighty row with him which was completely irreparable and they didn’t talk for years. His mum passed away last year from Covid and he hasn’t shown any emotion for that but it has meant we didn’t have any support or normal family relations for the kids. His dad is still alive but my DH isn’t wanting to rekindle things now...too much water under the bridge.

My parents also caused a huge argument a few years ago and I realised I was having bad mental health issues because of the way my dad treated me and that mum allowed him to beat me. Also the fact that I’d never felt good enough and this was continuing to haunt me. I couldn’t shake it with them in my life so I cut ties. As a result, we had no family for support, no one each of us could talk to, no help with our children. It has been a really difficult few years. I managed to get back into work after having my youngest but the difficulties in managing school runs and after-school activities has been so full on. We’ve not had a date in over a decade and every moment is us with our kids. Don’t get me wrong, we love them to bits and do our best for them. I’ve climbed the ladder a bit more at work and this has created added stress but is allowing them to do some fantastic things out of school. My DH and I get no time though.

So my DH doesn’t moan about the lack of ‘us time’. He says we can’t do anything about it so why moan. I have taken that as him not caring and it just being me that missed him and missed being an adult. I feel like being a mum is brilliant but I don’t know who I am anymore. I’m clinging on to work and everything else, trying to keep all the plates spinning but I’m a mess inside. I’m sure my DH shared some of this too and he works hard and shares the load, but he doesn’t talk much. He’s just not a talker and unable to discuss emotions.

Over the years, I have felt really lonely. I am envious of couples that have time together. Our sex life is very scarce and not exciting. My DH takes everything as a personal dig when brought up but also says he isn’t overly sexual and wouldn’t want it more than once a week (in reality probably more like fortnightly). We sit and watch tv together and we do stuff as a family, we support each other and do spend time together but it’s rarely affectionate, he isn’t tactile and we can go days without even a peck on the lips. My DH is kind of ok with this, he doesn’t need this to feel ok and if I didn’t mention it, he would probably be ok to manage as we are. I feel I’m only young and I’m so sad at how things are. I’m desperate for some excitement, to feel loved and desired. I know he loves me through the little gestures and sharing the workload but not in a romantic sense. I feel like flatmates. Frustratingly, my DH takes it all personal and always says that is just him and I should probably find someone else that makes me happy. I never wanted this though. I don’t want to divorce and have my kids living in a different house half the week, let alone risking either of us introducing new partners.

When we have these arguments about this side of our relationship, mostly it involves him telling me to leave and find someone else, but I know he doesn’t want this and it’s almost like he wants me to hurt him. He has some really deep rooted issues that make him want to push people away. This includes friends, work colleagues and even me and the kids. It’s like he feels he deserves to be alone so he encourages me to leave and with friends, tries to also push them away. I hate him being like this and end up backing down or apologising. I have serious issues with apologising to everyone for things I haven’t done. I think this stems from my dad constantly telling me to shut up and that my opinions were stupid. I don’t like to feel that I hurt people so I apologise, even if my feelings and complaints are valid. We then either end up with stale mate and go back to our boring lives or my DH kicks off and causes a scene. Sometimes this has been banging doors, shouting and walking out the house. It’s making it known that he’s going and sometimes in earshot of the kids which I hate.

The problem is that we’re both damaged. I don’t want my DH to be upset or to hurt him by moaning at him, because he is this way also because of his upbringing and I know how that feels. I’m always a people pleaser through and sometimes this gets me down. I never want my children to hear these fall outs and be caught up in it but they have been and sometimes they have been upset when DH has announced he’s leaving.

I always text him and tell him to come home so we can sort things because he loves his children and me. He is a good person but so mixed up and damaged. I feel terrible for moaning at him because we really are great partners apart from being very different when it comes to showing emotion and needing affection and sex.

Anyway, we had a big argument today over the same sort of thing and then the kids were on. Nothing major but the eldest had a go at me for something trivial and I huffed about the lack of appreciation. The others then didn’t want to go to bed and didn’t do anything major but did give me a bit of back-chat. My DH just lost it. I think the pressure of spending all day today discussing us and him feeling as always that it’s just a dig at him, meant he really had a go at them. Our youngest has gone to bed sobbing and another one was really frightened at how angry DH was. I have reassured them and they’re ok now but this isn’t what I want. We have paper thin walls so I’m also paranoid that our neighbours have also heard the commotion too.

I have told my DH that this was wrong and he knows it was. He says he feels like he’s losing it. He was ok yesterday until I brought up our lack of intimacy so I feel to blame. He’s saying he will get help and leave tomorrow, that it’s probably best the kids don’t see him for a while. I don’t want them to be scared of him or to hear all this but he really is a good person and I feel I’m pushing him to this by criticising him. Maybe the answer is that we’re just not compatible, that we got together too young and we need to split, but I love him so much and he loves me too. I just feel lonely because we can’t be young people together. I don’t want to be alone though after 20 years and I have no support. I literally don’t know how I’d manage everything alone.

The other issue is that we had a tough time with jobs a few years ago and have ended up with some debt. This is slowly being paid off but this is only possible whilst we live together. If my DH left, he would barely be able to afford a bed sit around here. This would have a massive effect on him and he’d lose everything because of this. I don’t want this for him, he’s a good man and has worked hard to make this home for us. It would also have a big impact on the kids, who wouldn’t want us to split and wouldn’t be able to stay with dad in a bedsit. There wouldn’t be any holidays on the horizon and as dad is the lower earner, he would never be able to afford to do anything with them. We currently have no savings whilst paying off debts so we don’t even have a bond to rent somewhere and his credit history isn’t great at the moment.

Neither of us would be able to stay living together and not be in relationship though. This would just lead to us going back to before with us going through the motions. Neither of us could watch the other have a new relationship whilst living together. I also wouldn’t be able to have any days where the kids stay with their dad if he’s in a bedsit so I’m literally alone until they are grown up.

I honestly don’t know what to do. Most importantly, I cannot allow my kids to be scared and have to witness things like this but having him leave will have a huge effect on everyone. My children won’t want him to go and this will have a negative effect on their relationship when they’re currently pretty close. I don’t feel I can be everything to them without having any support from anyone else. I just feel so lost and upset. I keep thinking we perhaps should have split before having kids but he is such a good man and some of his issues are related to his past, which has effected him even though he wont talk about it. For him to move out, id feel like I was abandoning him and one thing I will say for him is that he's fiercely loyal and protective of us. He has always had our backs. He has no one else and because he won't talk about his issues and emotions, he won't discuss this with anyone else or lean on anyone. I am genuinely scared that he may do something silly if he lost me and the kids. We are his world.

It's all such a mess and I don't know what to do. I don't have friends or anyone I can talk to either so it's really hard. I want to do the right thing, whatever that is but I care about my kids and DH more than anything and don't want to break people if I get this wrong. My DH wouldn't cope with being a part time dad and living in a bedsit but I feel so alone when we can't communicate and without affection or sex. I also don't want my kids to witness things they shouldn't but no one wants him to leave. Please help! I feel so confused and overwhelmed.

There's a LOT in this about your parents and his parents. What you don't mention much about is how he 'lost it" and why you're afraid the neighbours heard.

If you're afraid the neighbours heard him, then he needs to go. That doesn't sound good at all. I had a mixed upbringing as did my DH but we don't focus on it massively....we've both moved on and try to be healthy and loving.

Why are you going on about both of your pasts so much? It's all irrelevant if he's abusive OP....abuse is never excusable.

So sorry for the length of this. I didn’t want to drip feed information though or for people to only see one side to things. I think this is a fair reflection of everything going on and I’m sure my DH would agree that this is honest.

Just one other point, I’ve suggested counselling and my DH won’t do it. He says he can’t talk to a stranger; that if he can’t speak to me about stuff, he definitely can’t talk to them and that he doesn’t really know how he feels to put it into words. I’ve had counselling and CBT in the past for the family issues but didn’t find it helpful either. The only thing that helped it for me was to cut ties with family who continued to make me feel low and reminded me of the past. We are in contact again now, after many years not speaking (also rekindled due to me apologising for nothing and backing down) but I do feel stronger now with the family situation. The relationships are broken though and I cannot talk to them about any of this. I would be deeply ashamed if we split and my family would be the last ones I’d ever want to turn to. They don’t even bother with their grandchildren and although we are in contact, it’s really infrequent.

He isn’t abusive. He shouted at them for being rude and not being willing to go to bed, but it was loud and OTT for what they had done. He also slammed the door as he went into another room. This upset the kids and is what I think the neighbours may have heard.

Most importantly, I cannot allow my kids to be scared and have to witness things like this

Our youngest has gone to bed sobbing and another one was really frightened at how angry DH was.

That sounds like abuse.

Abuse isn't only hitting people OP. Verbal abuse is very damaging.

@FortunesFave I don’t know if this would count as abuse. He’s normally a very loving father, they are all so close and he dotes on them. We both spend every moment ferrying them about and anything to make sure they’re ok and happy. It was a difficult day today and he snapped, which did frighten the children. I think it was because they hadn’t done anything majorly wrong and the response was too much. I accept that this is wrong, as does he. I don’t want them to witness things like this.

However, we are financially broke. Where would he go, given that he has nothing and this is his home that he has built up with us? The argument that caused this was about us as a couple but this would devastate the kids and him. He won’t be able to have them overnight when he hasn’t anywhere decent to stay. This would literally rip his heart out and they would hate not being with their dad everyday. I also don’t know how I would cope if I have to manage everything myself with no support. This would literally push us all to the edge. Life is so hard as it is.

I am also concerned about my DH’s mental health if he had to leave. We are all he has. It’s easy to say make him leave but where to and what if this breaks him. How do I explain to the kids that this is for the best when potentially everyone will lose out. I don’t know if it is best; I don’t know what to do.

Ok, let's imagine it was a one-off, never repeated thing.

What's the issue? It seems to be that he's neither earning enough nor being a good husband.

He might be a good Dad but he's not a good husband.

He makes no effort to make you feel loved - he's perhaps got mental health issues but marriage doesn't mean you have to be miserable for the rest of YOUR life.

His poor money management is not your problem OP....if you're done, then he'll have to get a bedsit with the help of the council.

That's how it is for men with no money. Not saying its right but that's how it is.

Have a serious conversation with him about how he has to change. If he doesn't change, then you're moving on without him. See what happens.

It all sounds very claustrophobic, neither of you appear to have family or friends to be able to gauge what a normal relationship is or looks like. My DH is my best friend but I also have outside friends that I can off load to. Why don’t you have friends? This is often a red flag, that a man has controlled you to the point you only have him to rely on.

I think you both need to sit down together and lay your cards on the table. CBT doesn’t work for everyone but separate counselling and then maybe couples counselling will help bring everything into perspective.

He needs to apologise to the children as soon as he can, frightening them has to be a no go area. Remember they continue in adult relationships in the ones that were modelled to them

@Colouringaddict I can’t blame my DH for my lack of friends. At school, I spent a lot of time with him and they were really unpleasant after that. They were friends I had only recently made though due to having to move schools so no loyalties. In hindsight they weren’t true friends. I have since worked and had colleague friends but not close enough to open up to. I’ve made mum friends through school but again, not close ones. My DH doesn’t have lots of friends but does have a few and would have been happy for me to have the same. He has tried to encourage me to make friends but they’ve just never been really close, more like acquaintances really. Sadly I’ve just not gelled with anyone and I suffer with social anxiety so I find it hard to make the first move. I agree that it would be nice to have a group of friends but in all honesty, neither of us would share these kind of marital issues even if we did. Just the same as I didn’t see my mum sharing any of her stuff with friends and I wasn’t encouraged to tell anyone about my dads outbursts with me.

My DH will be apologising to the children this morning and he has agreed to speak to the doctor about anger management. I just don’t know what to do with us in general. If we won enough money to make a split manageable, I would trial it and see if this improved our relationship or made it clear that we need to stay apart. Unfortunately through, in our current situation, life would be so hard for my DH and it would have a massive impact on our children emotionally and financially. I don’t want any of us to end up like that because he doesn’t as he has put so much into our home. He doesn’t deserve to end up in a bedsit, unable to have his kids to stay.

Can I also just say that probably my closest friend who moved to another country a few months ago, was someone who I might have felt able to talk to. She lived with a man that spoke to her like crap and allowed their kids to treat her like crap. To the point where they’ve moved abroad and ended up putting the kids in boarding school now as she can’t cope with them. Another couple friend we made through school would only talk about how they fought, how she let the family down by having depression, that he would smash things when he got frustrated with her. All of this makes me question the use of friends. They all have seemed to have their own quite serious issues, probably more serious than ours in all honesty. It’s pot luck if you meet people that you can become close to, that are also good human beings that have good, healthy relationships. I just seem to attract these kinds of people with issues and to be honest, I can’t be doing with their problems on top of my own. My work revolves around this kind of thing and it can feel really draining.

Gosh, what a lot of information ! I’m afraid I didn’t get through it all, so sorry if I’ve missed something.
Do I understand that this is the first time he has shouted at the kids ? If so I wouldn’t be using the word abuse yet. He needs to apologise and it not happen again.
It seems clear to me that you need to split up. You’re not compatible, and you cling to him because you don’t want to bring a step-family into the mix. I get that , I had an evil step-mum, but you can’t stay together to prevent what might happen. And him shouting in front of the kids might be the start of the new normal in your house for your kids.
You both deserve to be happy, but it doesn’t seem like that’s together.
I’d ask him to move out temporarily while you both calm down and see how being apart feels 💐

Is it worth considering some sort of debt management help?

Depending on the type of debt, you might be able to get it written off or onto a payment plan? Yes, it will affect your credit rating for 6 years, but if it enables you to make better decisions for your family unit if you didn't have the debt pressure, it might be worth it.

Also, no matter what he and you have been through, your first responsibility is to your children, ensuring that they get far far better than either of you ever got.

If that means him ending up in a shitty bedsit, then that's what needs to happen.

@category12 I don’t know how this would work as we technically own a home together. My debt is more manageable as I earn more but DH is on a lower wage as it was the only way of managing childcare arrangements. It still is as paying for before/after school clubs would be even more. I feel terrible as he has taken a hit financially because of this and would be so poor if he lived alone.

In order for either of us to keep up repayments on debt, it will mean that the kids miss out on after-school stuff. Some of this was actually providing work experience and a small income for one child (albeit less than the cost of the fuel for us to make it happen, but it was independence for one of our children and learning skills that have completely changed their social skills).

I just feel like this is going to hit our children the hardest and for DH, he is a decent man and has always worked, but will now be left with nothing. Some of the house shares and flats I’ve seen are still extortionate but in truly awful areas. Even if DH and I aren’t together, the thought of him living somewhere dangerous and full of ASB is horrific. The kids couldn’t ever stay with him. The cost of living is just so high and it seems impossible for people to live alone.

Clearing your debt, and never getting back into it, should be your priority. Not having after school activities for the kids.
There’s no point in the kids doing ballet or whatever when you’re crippled by debt.

@category12 Is that better though? I didn’t have a good relationship with my dad and was desperate for this to be different for my kids. They all do so much together and are really close. This would mean he has no money to take them anywhere, no chance of holidays or making any memories with them, their extra curricular stuff would all have to stop, even though some of it may provide jobs for one of our kids due to the training they’re getting as part of it. They wouldn’t be able to have dad with them at night anymore because he couldn’t rent anywhere with a spare room or in a decent area. It just seems like an awful situation for everyone but especially the kids. For those that can afford to comfortably split and both get their own houses, this wouldn’t be an issue and I would welcome a trial separation to see how we get on, but this just feels like we’re destroying everything we built and worked for, along with our kids happiness.

@GoodnightGrandma Without explaining fully what the extra curricular stuff is, it’s difficult to see what I mean but it’s like ballet etc. This is for an older child at secondary school and it is currently providing them with work experience that may benefit them in future and has drastically improved their social skills. However, it is costing us money and fuel to ferry them there and back regularly.

Yes we could have stopped all after school things but we have been able to pay things back reasonably comfortably until we consider splitting. It’s that we can’t afford to pay for two properties and all the associated bills, whilst also keeping up with repayments. This as you you say, will mean them not doing any of the things they enjoy and will have a big impact on them.

You really need to look at your priorities financially and get some advice about your debt so it's not dictating the choices you're making.

It's damaging for your children to live in an environment where their father regularly threatens to leave, there's banging doors, shouting, dad causing "scenes", mum is constantly backing down, apologising and smoothing things over.

Lovely after-school activities are not really the priority. The look of idyllic family life is no good if it's undercut by toxic behaviour.

Sorry I meant it’s not like ballet or normal after school clubs.

All the private rented places I’ve seen are wanting a months rent plus bond, plus application fees. It’s so expensive just to get the place. Although we could pay this when we’re next paid, it would probably wipe out his entire salary for the month. The other issue is that his credit score isn’t good and yet they want him to apply for a place and go through their credit checks, with no guarantee he will get the place. So he could pay out hundreds to apply for nothing. We can’t afford to do this. If he is moving out, we can barely afford the months rent, bond and application fees but this would need to guarantee he gets the property and I don’t know if anyone will rent to him. I’ve tried to look for landlords letting direct but no doubt they will credit score him too.

I really really feel for you and your family OP.

It’s clear to me that your family needs outside support and both you and your DH need to open up to receiving support. Can you reach out to your GP or social services to see what’s available?

You keep saying ‘we’ but it’s not up to you to organise him.
You need to speak to a solicitor - often you can get 30 mins free if you ring around - to see what percentage you can get. I’m fairly sure that it will be more than 50 %.